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Another way of assessing junior development for each club

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
If we based it on dally m awards the warriors would place last, Ali Lauatiti second rower of the year 02' Sean Hoppe winger of the year 95' and Steve Price (not a warriors jr.) prop and captain of the year 07' are the only warriors to ever win an award while playing for the warriors, not saying it's a conspiracy just that they are bias. Warriors haven't even won a NYC player of the year award ffs. Other warriors juniors to win an award are Paul Rauhihi, Nigel Vagana and Roy Asotasi.

NZ should be looking at their own awards & not limited to Warriors players ie every kiwi playing nyc, local regional comps & nsw/q cup & FG in oz & nz - make the awards something to aspire to like the DMs etc. Be great if a kiwi could get up there & win a DM but in reality, can't play origin, would have to commit to play for oz. can't have it all ways unfortunately mate...
 

Warrior@Heart

Juniors
Messages
829
NZ should be looking at their own awards & not limited to Warriors players ie every kiwi playing nyc, local regional comps & nsw/q cup & FG in oz & nz - make the awards something to aspire to like the DMs etc. Be great if a kiwi could get up there & win a DM but in reality, can't play origin, would have to commit to play for oz. can't have it all ways unfortunately mate...

Yeah I have no gripe with the dally m awards simply because it is an Australian concept and they have every right to choose whoever they want, and I think they do have an NZRL awards it just doesn't get much exposure.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,837
This. In an ideal world every player would never leave 'home' and would go on to represent their 'home' FG but the nature of any professional sports comp means people will go where there is opportunity to further their careers - some make it, most don't - and the salary cap adds to this greatly. Fair? No, probably not especially when you have to see some young gun leave 'home' but to me they carry their roots with them & I don't give a damn who they are playing for in that respect - they and theirs know where they came from.
Re the targeted funding for junior development - it won't make that much difference to the ones that get overlooked at 'home' or for some reason need a change to realise their potential. It would mean you don't have to lose the ones identified early but a lot will still go later on one way or the other. Nature of the beast

Whilst this is true i still think we should try and avoid it as much as possible. I watch a lot of different sports and the NRL is one of the few where teams have quite a few local juniors and players who stay at clubs for a long time.

It creates tribalism and i think it's something we should really be encouraging.

Yeah I have no gripe with the dally m awards simply because it is an Australian concept and they have every right to choose whoever they want, and I think they do have an NZRL awards it just doesn't get much exposure.

The dally m is a joke for a bunch of other reasons though. It really is a worhtless awards ceremony.
 
Messages
4,204
In doing this, I am amazed to find that Thurston could not get a gig with a club unless he played for free, and then only 2 clubs were interested. The first was Nathan Brown at the Dragons, but he ended up at the Dogs because it was closer to his managers place and that made his mum a little happier. How things change.

Yep n as it turned out Canterbury didn't even want him... after all Brent Sherwin was on his rise to being the next Andrew Johns
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
NZ should be looking at their own awards & not limited to Warriors players ie every kiwi playing nyc, local regional comps & nsw/q cup & FG in oz & nz - make the awards something to aspire to like the DMs etc. Be great if a kiwi could get up there & win a DM but in reality, can't play origin, would have to commit to play for oz. can't have it all ways unfortunately mate...

Not being eligible for SOO doesn't hampen Kiwi players one bit when it comes to potentially winning the Dally M medal.
 

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
Not being eligible for SOO doesn't hampen Kiwi players one bit when it comes to potentially winning the Dally M medal.

Yeah, didn't mean it that way, said it would be great if one could get up there. The rest was just a couple of other things kiwis face to get other kudos rated highly in oz. It would be good to have some higher profile honours that are kiwi-initiated - I think it could fire up potential players & acknowledge existing ones in a new way. The wrap-up of the season as the NRL does it in Oz just doesn't happen in NZ
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
No-one owns juniors. Why would a club volunteer to foster juniors when if they did find a champion the NRL would force it to donate him to another club.

Clubs have to go through the process without adequate reward because the NRL says they have to.

If clubs were allowed concessions for keeping champions they produced the term 'junior' would take on a whole new meaning.
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Listen you senile old f*cktard, which champion of any club did the NRL force to another club?
 

NAS

Juniors
Messages
367
Personally, I believe that the over reliance on the first few years of grade is what flaws your argument.

Tim Smith is a good example here. He was rookie of the year one year. And then basically fell off the radar. Conversely, Kieran Foran was not rookie of the year, and look at him now. Then you've got the fact, that backs will always be ready for grade before forwards (with a few notable exceptions). When was the last time that a forward was rookie of the year? Not even Sonny Bill was rookie of the year. And that says something.

Then you've got, what I'll call the "Bryan Fletcher factor"....usually forwards...who develop later perhaps from good players to great players once they hit 24,25.....Should the roosters (he was a paddo colts jr and as such, roosters can actually lay claim) be disadvantaged by the fact that he developed later? Terry Campese is another good example of this.

Secondly, the words "junior development" are inaccurate in the modern day. "junior scouting and recruitment" is far more applicable....You have kids from QLD and NZ playing in the NYC for Sydney clubs..Kids from the south coast of NSW playing for Nth Qld and so on...They haven't developed the juniors. Rather they've scouted the best juniors.

The other problem lies in the disproportionate numbers of local juniors and how many actually go on to play grade. Penrith, Parramatta and St George Illawarra have massive nurseries, not via the work of the clubs themselves, but rather by the numbers of junior kids they have playing in the junior competition. If the majority of local juniors don't come from these comps in NSW then there's something amiss.

Yet even these clubs are recruiting from outside their area. Tim Smith and Michael Witt are once again great examples. Qld boys playing for Parramatta. Steve Price from Toowoomba playing for the dogs. Sonny Bill Williams and Roy Asotasi from NZ to playing for the dogs, and then there's Benji..... Why? Because they want to win. And fair enough too. It's not good enough to have the best local juniors playing for you these days. These days you need the best juniors. And given that you've got 3 clubs in QLD, and superclubs in Western Sydney, and the Illawarra, then it's likely that there are going to be more talented players out there, via weight of sheer numbers........

The days of the "development of the local junior" are over.....And the development of the "junior" needs to be assessed over an entire career, not simply whether they play a game, or even a season, of first grade....
 

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