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Anti-Sheens Mob Going Off Too Early

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
No change in personell next year...Sheens' own words...after what weve lost in players the last 2 seasons and the results thereafter, Im not filled with confidence...but hey yeh, lets just say, '08 and then at the end of '08 lets just say, well...'09...
Crowd numbers are down for the first time since '03....will continue again next year bet your life, theyre not encouraging me to keep going thats for sure, I wont be alone.
 

weststigerman

Juniors
Messages
128
Ninja said:
I love this excuse - Hes not great but he was the best available at the time blah blah...

So why sign him for 3 f**king years for big dollars??

I consider that a major f**k up

He's not on big dollars. He's on about the same money Prince was on with the Tigers when he was a broken down hack. Ben Galea would have been on more...
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
Morris= fail
Moodie= fail
D Galea=fail
Peter lewis=fail
Harbrect & Harlen (even though some claim they were bought purely for PL, theyve had more top grade exp elsewhere than theyre getting here) = fail.
 

smeghead

Bench
Messages
2,882
D Galea I would not class as a fail at this point considering the injuries and suspension he carried this year.

Harlen & Haeberacht I think the determination on whether they are a failure or not will be decided next year.

The things that really make me question things this year are some of the selections.

* O'Hara is a better option that that geniused cat Gibbs
* Metesula is a better back row option than Fulton Fulton should be playing in the halves or centres as he will never be big enough for the pack.
* Jarrod Saffy is a back rower, not a prop
* Halatau being dropped when others deserved to go before him. It seems he was being coached to play a different role than 05 this year, yet when he came back for round 25 he played his 05 style and was inifinately better

It seems in almost every way the Wests SG Ball side who carried on through to the 05 Grand Final and those who came up after are a protected species worse than what is claimed about Daniel Fitzhenry.

Gibbs is an abject f**k up and has cost our club two scandals already because the prick can't handle his drink or doesn't know when to say stop. Yet what reprimand does he get from the club? Nothing but Pappa Noyce shows up to all his court dates like a father not a CEO. Than we give him more money in contact upgrades, it is a real joke.

And yes I am a ware I harp on Gibs alot but not without good cause. Many of us remember the dark days of the Wests Tigers all too well. Gibbs reminds me, in his attitude and the myth that is his hard man reputation, of a composite of those players in that time just pissing around waiting for the next embarassing incident. With Noyce being the complacent boss who does not seem willing to act to prevent the obvious course from being followed.
 

Gus22

Juniors
Messages
574
innsaneink said:
Morris= fail
Moodie= fail
D Galea=fail
Peter lewis=fail
Harbrect & Harlen (even though some claim they were bought purely for PL, theyve had more top grade exp elsewhere than theyre getting here) = fail.

Galea and Morris (the utility, not the half-back) may yet turn out to be decent purchases . After their first year, you could have argued that Prince and Richards were failues also.

The point at the start of this thread was about Sheens overall performance and suitability to continue. I conceded from the outset that recruitment and cap management has been poor. Everyone is assuming however that Sheens is completely responsible for this. Sure, he would have a big say in who is targeted for recruitment, but he wouldn't have got evrything he wanted. Some have mentioned him having the rugg pulled out from under him with regards to chasing Wiki. If true, who else was he prevented from signing? I won't argue about McDonell and Simmons deserving the axe as their roles in the club are clear and they have clearly not been performed well enough.

Anyway, we'll know for sure in less than twelve months if Sheens is past his "use by" date. Anything less than a top six finish should and most likely will end Sheens tenure as coach at this club. I have a feeling though that if Benji and Farah have injury free years a top four finish is on the cards.
 

Vicious

Bench
Messages
2,624
smeghead said:
D Galea I would not class as a fail at this point considering the injuries and suspension he carried this year.

Harlen & Haeberacht I think the determination on whether they are a failure or not will be decided next year.

The things that really make me question things this year are some of the selections.

* O'Hara is a better option that that geniused cat Gibbs
* Metesula is a better back row option than Fulton Fulton should be playing in the halves or centres as he will never be big enough for the pack.
* Jarrod Saffy is a back rower, not a prop
* Halatau being dropped when others deserved to go before him. It seems he was being coached to play a different role than 05 this year, yet when he came back for round 25 he played his 05 style and was inifinately better

It seems in almost every way the Wests SG Ball side who carried on through to the 05 Grand Final and those who came up after are a protected species worse than what is claimed about Daniel Fitzhenry.

Gibbs is an abject f**k up and has cost our club two scandals already because the prick can't handle his drink or doesn't know when to say stop. Yet what reprimand does he get from the club? Nothing but Pappa Noyce shows up to all his court dates like a father not a CEO. Than we give him more money in contact upgrades, it is a real joke.

And yes I am a ware I harp on Gibs alot but not without good cause. Many of us remember the dark days of the Wests Tigers all too well. Gibbs reminds me, in his attitude and the myth that is his hard man reputation, of a composite of those players in that time just pissing around waiting for the next embarassing incident. With Noyce being the complacent boss who does not seem willing to act to prevent the obvious course from being followed.

I can`t agree. I agree Gibbs` has been a bit of a disappointment, i don`t really care what he does in his own time, but i did expect him to become a more dominant player by this stage of his career. Having said that, he has plenty of team mates in the same boat and i think he deserves next season to see if he can take his game to a higher level. Like Galloway, they are still youngish for props and they still show as much potential as most other props around their age.
As for Fulton, i have expected a little more from him too, due to the fact that i watched him play quite often when he was coming through the lower grades and therefore i know he still has a lot more to his game than what he`s shown us since being in first grade. However, in saying that, i still believe he`s been one of our better performed players, he`s atleast shown glimpses of his skill, he`s shown that when he does get deep and hit the ball at speed that he`s a handfull for opposing defences and he still has a better work ethic than most others. I see him as a natural lock who could no doubt handle himself well in the centres if need be. He played a fair bit of 5/8 with the Wests Magpies before playing first grade and was quite dominant. That being the case, he no doubt has the skill required, but i`m as mystified as anyone as to why he hasn`t shown much at all in the way of ball skills since he`s hit the first grade scene ??? Whatever the case, Liam still has a touch of class about him and is certainly twice the player that Dene Halatau will ever be. I`m sorry, but Metuisela tries hard, always puts his hand up to run the ball, but isn`t anywhere near the same class as Liam Fulton and never will be !!!
I`m not sure what Halatau has done to impress you over the past 2 seasons ?, but as far as i`m concerned he`s done SFA, he no longer wants to run the ball hard like he did throughout the finals series in `2005, he`s got no skill whatsoever and he`s a very soft and suspect defender. He`ll never make it in the forwards, his only hope at remaining a first grade quality footballer is possibly by moving back out to the centres.
 

851

Bench
Messages
3,141
There is a rumour doing the rounds that Sheens has signed for Saints in 2009,whilst I don't beleive this I have heard it from a few different places.
 

rupertpupkin

Juniors
Messages
512
Gus22 said:
Galea and Morris (the utility, not the half-back) may yet turn out to be decent purchases . After their first year, you could have argued that Prince and Richards were failues also.

Prince is an entirely different story. Is it possible that Prince may not have recovered? Yes, it is possible, but it was a case of a gamble that was well worth it. Especially considering the price. The odds of Prince regaining form were very good. Also, compared to the halves employed over the previous couple of seasons, Prince was a great investment, even with broken legs. The difference between Morris and Prince is that Morris was already as good as he was going to be, doing what he does- a utility. And WT had utilities. Prince was a genuine specialist half. More than that, Prince was a future force. It was obvious back when he was playing in Juniors in NQ that the kid was going to be a rep Half, and shape the fortunes of whatever club he was with. He was also a natural leader. When it was announced that Prince had signed with WT, it was clear WT had a real shot at finals football. It was just a matter of when he got his thing back. Prince was a spectacular investment, that had an outside chance of not panning out. Morris was an ordinary buy that has little chance of producing a big enough return to justify the expenditure and spot.

Not to imply that you are suggesting Prince was a failure, even in his 1st season, but Hodgson and Prince in particular are the rare exceptions in extreme value for $$$.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
I've never rated Gibbs and don't think I ever will. I'm with smeg on this one.

It's been three years and he hasn't improved. All I hear is that "he's young and will develop into a top shelf prop". Bullsh1t, no he won't. He's as soft as butter and seems to do alot of trash talking but never backs it up with on field performances.

He's a powderpuff.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
Gus22 said:
Galea and Morris (the utility, not the half-back) may yet turn out to be decent purchases . After their first year, you could have argued that Prince and Richards were failues also.

The point at the start of this thread was about Sheens overall performance and suitability to continue. I conceded from the outset that recruitment and cap management has been poor. Everyone is assuming however that Sheens is completely responsible for this. Sure, he would have a big say in who is targeted for recruitment, but he wouldn't have got evrything he wanted. Some have mentioned him having the rugg pulled out from under him with regards to chasing Wiki. If true, who else was he prevented from signing? I won't argue about McDonell and Simmons deserving the axe as their roles in the club are clear and they have clearly not been performed well enough.

Anyway, we'll know for sure in less than twelve months if Sheens is past his "use by" date. Anything less than a top six finish should and most likely will end Sheens tenure as coach at this club. I have a feeling though that if Benji and Farah have injury free years a top four finish is on the cards.

He can win the f**king comp again next year, but that wont change whats happened these last two....
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
hybrid_tiger said:
I've never rated Gibbs and don't think I ever will. I'm with smeg on this one.

It's been three years and he hasn't improved. All I hear is that "he's young and will develop into a top shelf prop". Bullsh1t, no he won't. He's as soft as butter and seems to do alot of trash talking but never backs it up with on field performances.

He's a powderpuff.

What/who are you expecting him to be like?

He plays in the toughest position in the game, hes defensively one of our best, he makes the metres reularly without reaching Price, civvo figures...but plenty other props dont get those numbers either, and hes all of 22 - where its well known props dont reach their best till their late 20's.

He has a go, but everyone expects him to be Webke or Wiki...guy cant win.
 

Vicious

Bench
Messages
2,624
innsaneink said:
What/who are you expecting him to be like?

He plays in the toughest position in the game, hes defensively one of our best, he makes the metres reularly without reaching Price, civvo figures...but plenty other props dont get those numbers either, and hes all of 22 - where its well known props dont reach their best till their late 20's.

He has a go, but everyone expects him to be Webke or Wiki...guy cant win.

I don`t know if some people realise, but Steve Price was a regular Reserve Grader up until he was 23-24y.o..... Toughness in a forward is something that quite often doesn`t start happening until they reach the 24-25y.o mark.
 

Gus22

Juniors
Messages
574
We looked a much better team every time Gibbs played this year. He's progressing well and has it in him to play Origin in the next 3 years or so. Needs to work on his discipline, but you have to be prepared to cop the odd penalty if you expect him to be the aggressive forward to mix it with opposing thugs and hardmen. It's a balancing act that will take another season or two to master. Without Gibbs our pack are push overs. Gibbs has that nutter element that has opposing forwards looking out of the corner of their eye for him when taking a hit up. I wish he'd share his angry pills with Galloway. A fired up Gibbs & Galloway front row could be a handful for anyone.
 

Ninja

Juniors
Messages
184
Gibbs has potential whereas Galloway doesnt.

The difference between the two - a little thing called coordination.

Gibbs has it, Galloway doesn't. Yep the big red is unco. And the sad thing is you're either born with it or you never have it. He shall always remain a big red bumbling dork. Sad really considering his size
 

aids

Bench
Messages
3,994
Gibbs on the field is ok.

however off the field he is a dickhead in the same league as mason.
and his attitude sucks, i.e laughing at the ref after being penailsed against the knights.
at the moment i've written him off untill he levels out and grows up.
but at the current rate he's a bit of a c**k-mongler.
but that's for another thread.


i think Sheens himself is doing ok, strange selections and bench choices aside.
however Royce confuses and scares me.
BigMac has put a lot of people offside by the deal offered to his son.

and it feels Noyce run the club like he wants to be friends with everyone rather than trying to run a successful club(which isn't altogether a bad thing, if the money is coming in)
 

scarcev

Juniors
Messages
225
Ninja said:
Anyone would have taken that team to the GF in '05. We had a superstar team that enjoyed playing Harlem Globetrotter footy.

Sheens had no control over that team nor did he WANT that team. Remember him whinging about losing gun players like Senter Sattler and Moodie? Wake up. 2005 was a fluke for Sheens

You are kidding yourself. Yea a superstar team, not one representative player among them, not even a bloody city or country player. Is it any wonder noone ever takes you seriously on here you d*ckhead.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Marshall, Halatau, Harrison, Whatuira played for Kiwis, Prince, Hodgson played Origin, Skandalis, Senter, Fitzhenry? played City v Country

Now I'm not confident that these guys all represented in those roles that season or not, but I'm fairly certain most of them are right
 

Ninja

Juniors
Messages
184
scarcev said:
You are kidding yourself. Yea a superstar team, not one representative player among them, not even a bloody city or country player. Is it any wonder noone ever takes you seriously on here you d*ckhead.


I said 'superstar team' not 'team full of superstars' you f**king drip. Prince even said something along those lines in his GF victory speech.

But just because the players werent getting selected for rep games does that make them sh*t??? Pat Richards could consider himself very unlucky as well as Ben Galea. Prince was killing it too. Also youve got to remember our Kiwi stars were ineligable for Origin selections.

Im sick of mongs like you going on about how it was a team of no name geniuss that Sheens the miracle man guided to glory.... what a load of sh*t.

Just have a look at our 1, 6, 7, 9

1 Hodgson
6 Marshall
7 Prince
9 Farah

all in form. Tell me that isnt one of the best combinations to ever grace a football field. Bellamy would be frothing if he could get his hands on a combo like that. The team gelled well together and were able to put on some freak plays. The only blemish on that awesome side was the selections of Buckets and Fitzy.
 

simon says

First Grade
Messages
5,124
madunit said:
Marshall, Halatau, Harrison, Whatuira played for Kiwis, Prince, Hodgson played Origin, Skandalis, Senter, Fitzhenry? played City v Country

Now I'm not confident that these guys all represented in those roles that season or not, but I'm fairly certain most of them are right

My mum could get a spot for the Kiwis......and Senter had retired and Fitzy....:lol: :lol:


Great argument......:oops:
 

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