ANZAC day game against the Roosters

[dragonreddy]

Actually I thought Creagh had one of his better games yesterday. Not sure of his stats but he took it to them all game. We need to make Widdop captain. No offence to Ben but I think he's a natural organiser and talker. Leave Ben to just hitting the line hard. Also thought Nathan Green played well also. After 15 minutes in I knew what we were in for. We got behind on the scoreboard (again) and tried to play catch-up. Was never going to happen - not against a side like the Rooters. When are we going to get smart and cheat on the salary cap like they do?

For what its worth i thought Creagh was our best yesterday so agree with you , its a big call to make a newcomer the captain so dont know if Widdop is the man yet, i still dont think he has done enough to get the wrap he is getting , he is good, no doubt, as he should be for the money he is on , but not sure hes our saviour.

 

[2010Dragons]

I have watched ever ANZAC game live since 2002. This would would have to be the worst I have seen the mighty Dragons play.

OH HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN.
WHERE HAS MY BELOVED REAL DRAGONS GONE?

 

[twinkletoes]

Hostorically, the Dragons have performed best when coached by a hard nosed, tough disciplinarian such as Waite, Smith and Bennett. This style of coaching seems to suit our club and players the best. Other coaches such as Nathan Brown, Price, Farrar etc seemed to encourage a more care free attitude which resulted in poor discipline on the field with lots of errors, silly penalties, soft defence etc even though at times they played with great flair and entertaining football particularly in the case of Brown. Bennett made a statement when he first came to the Dragons along the lines that no other clubs would think the Dragons were soft under his watch.

The Price style of coaching is one lacking in discipline and composure evidenced by drop balls, stupid penalties, soft defence, whcih continually put the side under pressure and make it impossible to play to any sort of plan. We have seen this type of football for 2 and a bit seasons now with no signs of the discipline improving. This coach cannot instill the necessary discipline in this side...I am now sick of hearing every week how much the players love Price as a coach...maybe this is the problem...its all to cosy

I just think this particular team needs an experienced, hard nosed coach with a very strict disciplined approach in the mould of Hasler, Toovey, Bellamy, Robinson etc. The only one I can think of at the moment who is available is Smith, although I don't like him much as a bloke and I would only see him as a short term option, because historically he seems to leave clubs in turmoil after about 3 seasons. Sheens..I'm not sure about the discipline he would instill. Young & Hornby seem to have great potential but not in the short term. Millward doesn't seem to have brought much discipline to the Cutters and McGregor was woeful as coach of the Cutters last season.

Is McGuire coming off contract at the end of this season?/

 

[dragonreddy]

Ive said it before Kevin Walters , give him a shot because if one thing is evident we need a coach as far away as possible from the Dragons inward looking culture , i think its fair to say Bennett proved that. The joint needs a cleanout big time.The way i see it they are so busy blowing wind up each others arse they"ve lost sight of reality ,Price and Doust talk so much rhetoric they should be politicians.

 

[DUB888]

Agree with your thoughts Twinkletoes & Dragonreddy. It appears across 3-4 threads the discussion comes down to the coaching staff. This discussion is now in its third year and is an absolute disgrace to everything "Dragons" that it continues. Price and McGregor would not get another gig in the NRL and Young needs to take his pension. I believe the majority of the current team is talented and can take us into the future BUT discipline is needed and needed NOW. A coaching team that can Coach talent , show no favouritism and leave no expectation about the performance that is required is what we all expect from our great Brand MR DOUST. I will not enter into who the new coach should be as better alternatives are available to what we currently have. Mediocrity is no longer acceptable , a competitive team is what is required not the crap we witnessed on Anzac Day.

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

It's our play the ball. Look how many times we have 1 marker or 2 players still laying in the ruck as they play the ball. No team can defend down the middle when we aren't slowing the play the ball. Yes, our forwards have problems, but we have bigger issues with the ruck.

I've just started my forum reading after returning to Canberra having gone to the game Friday night.

..And I start with this.

The ruck is Dragons' biggest problem. In attack and defence.

Call it speed in the play the ball, rolling them on their back, controlling the ruck, whatever, we employ none of the tactics the dominant teams do. It's a huge problem. And yet we still give away numerous ruck penalties. It's a joke.

 

[Dezziedc]

I've just started my forum reading after returning to Canberra having gone to the game Friday night.

..And I start with this.

The ruck is Dragons' biggest problem. In attack and defence.

Call it speed in the play the ball, rolling them on their back, controlling the ruck, whatever, we employ none of the tactics the dominant teams do. It's a huge problem. And yet we still give away numerous ruck penalties. It's a joke.

This is it BFD. Even watching it on TV, it stands out like dogs balls. Nearly every tackle we either don't have 2 markers, have players getting back on side, or have players still laying in the ruck. They get a roll on because we aren't slowing it down and we are back pedalling.

I posted it in the forwards thread, we also don't play the ball with any urgency or speed when we have the ball - their line is set before we play the ball so their line comes forward to meet us every time - hence why we aren't making as much ground. We don't need bigger forwards, we need a better ruck strategy.

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

This is it BFD. Even watching it on TV, it stands out like dogs balls. Nearly every tackle we either don't have 2 markers, have players getting back on side, or have players still laying in the ruck. They get a roll on because we aren't slowing it down and we are back pedalling.

I posted it in the forwards thread, we also don't play the ball with any urgency or speed when we have the ball - their line is set before we play the ball so their line comes forward to meet us every time - hence why we aren't making as much ground. We don't need bigger forwards, we need a better ruck strategy.

Well, I think we have deficiencies in our pack - size being the obvious, but also lacking aggression and sometimes even technique in their tackling, or rounding up runners so they stay in forwards, and preventing offloads and 2nd phase play against us. They also lack discipline - not just giving away penalties but lack of discipline in how they move together as a defensive unit

Like you say, our speed in the ruck is generally terribly slow, in attack and defence. Worst being that it is never consistent - ie. no control. Our defensive line back peddles, then moves forward in a staggered line, if at all. And all that extra running in defence makes them tired.

Given our natural deficiencies - the need for an effective and competitive ruck strategy, and the discipline to maintain it through-out the game, is what the coach should be focusing on, and the captain barking on the field.

It was such a shit game to watch live. I hated it.

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

...I've got other serious issues with Steve Price as a coach - not just effective ruck strategy or that (mythical) "game plan". (indeed on that point, the closest we get to executing a game plan may be better described as "going through the motions").

The Anzac day match on Friday was perfect example of this.

...Don't get me started.

Because the even bigger issue I have with Steve Price as a coach is his complete ineffectiveness in motivating his troops for a big game.

In the last three years, I have not seen my dragons get FIRED UP for anything!!!!

Whether it was a match to make the top eight, ANZAC DAY, or to avoid the wooden spoon, NOT ONCE during his tenure as coach have the Dragons looked like they found extra motivation for a big game. Instead we stay mild mannered and lift our tee shirts to show our threatening soft underbellies to rampaging forwards.

Discipline, strategy, and MOTIVATION all come from the coach.

On these three counts, as a coach, I think Steve Price is lousy.

 

[Mr Red]

I wathched the post match press conference after the cowboys v eels match. Brad Arthur didn't mix his words, was totally honest and actually said his team lacked any spirit in the match. It was very refreshing to see a coach give an honest assessment of his teams effort rather than the dribble Price rolls out each week..

 

[GT0007]

Hostorically, the Dragons have performed best when coached by a hard nosed, tough disciplinarian such as Waite, Smith and Bennett. This style of coaching seems to suit our club and players the best. Other coaches such as Nathan Brown, Price, Farrar etc seemed to encourage a more care free attitude which resulted in poor discipline on the field with lots of errors, silly penalties, soft defence etc even though at times they played with great flair and entertaining football particularly in the case of Brown. Bennett made a statement when he first came to the Dragons along the lines that no other clubs would think the Dragons were soft under his watch.

The Price style of coaching is one lacking in discipline and composure evidenced by drop balls, stupid penalties, soft defence, whcih continually put the side under pressure and make it impossible to play to any sort of plan. We have seen this type of football for 2 and a bit seasons now with no signs of the discipline improving. This coach cannot instill the necessary discipline in this side...I am now sick of hearing every week how much the players love Price as a coach...maybe this is the problem...its all to cosy

I just think this particular team needs an experienced, hard nosed coach with a very strict disciplined approach in the mould of Hasler, Toovey, Bellamy, Robinson etc. The only one I can think of at the moment who is available is Smith, although I don't like him much as a bloke and I would only see him as a short term option, because historically he seems to leave clubs in turmoil after about 3 seasons. Sheens..I'm not sure about the discipline he would instill. Young & Hornby seem to have great potential but not in the short term. Millward doesn't seem to have brought much discipline to the Cutters and McGregor was woeful as coach of the Cutters last season.

Is McGuire coming off contract at the end of this season?/

I spent about an hour talking one on one to Brian Smith when he was coaching Parra. He came across as a really genuine guy. We spoke of his love for the Dragons and his disappointment of being forced out. He was one season away from being the longest serving coach and that was a goal for him. I'm uncertain on whether he would be a good option but if he took the job I know his heart would be with the club and I don't think he cares who's feathers he ruffles which is a good thing generally but potentially disruptive. He'd certainly clean out any dead wood. I'm concerned like everyone about the way the team is performing but change for the sake of change is a scary approach if you get locked in with potentially another unsuccessful coach. If we had of got Belamy I'd be all for it, Laurie Daley has the right demeaner as well but unproven. We need a coach that the players will give 100% for. ATM we are 4/8 which for me is just below a pass and we have had no major injuries so we have no excuse. While we should be 5/8 which for me is a pass the concern is the way we are playing more so than our standing on the ladder. If I were price I wouldn't be resting the players over this 16 day break I'd be working their ass off! Wrestling coach every day followed by ball work then fitness & weights. It's really hard to say how our actual defense is traveling as we put it under too much presure by losing the ruck and everything snowballs after that but there is a big question on Alberts role as a defensive coach as winning the ruck is his 1st responsibility. In regard to Macgreggor I'm concerned about the lack of decoys we use which is part of the reason a sliding defense works so well against us. The other reason is our attack needs to be straightened with outside in runners and decoys. Even our early hit ups we need a decoy to take some of the heat. Outside of Hunt and Green (both have improved without being spectacular) we have a decent roster and we really don't have anyone playing badly, we are losing the game because of fundamentals and stadegy and it all starts with winning the wrestle in the ruck!

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

I wathched the post match press conference after the cowboys v eels match. Brad Arthur didn't mix his words, was totally honest and actually said his team lacked any spirit in the match. It was very refreshing to see a coach give an honest assessment of his teams effort rather than the dribble Price rolls out each week..

Red ....I just saw the interview on the footy show and though exactly the same. By callling a spade a spade, publically pointing out the wrong in his teams' performance, is what sets the standard. And this, early in his tenure as Eels coach.

 

[hazzbeen]

Agree with your thoughts Twinkletoes & Dragonreddy. It appears across 3-4 threads the discussion comes down to the coaching staff. This discussion is now in its third year and is an absolute disgrace to everything "Dragons" that it continues. Price and McGregor would not get another gig in the NRL and Young needs to take his pension. I believe the majority of the current team is talented and can take us into the future BUT discipline is needed and needed NOW. A coaching team that can Coach talent , show no favouritism and leave no expectation about the performance that is required is what we all expect from our great Brand MR DOUST. I will not enter into who the new coach should be as better alternatives are available to what we currently have. Mediocrity is no longer acceptable , a competitive team is what is required not the crap we witnessed on Anzac Day.

Totally agree with everything you have said.GET RID OF THE BOYS CLUB NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH THESE CLOWNS RUNNING THE ST GEORGE BRAND INTO THE GROUND...........

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

I spent about an hour talking one on one to Brian Smith when he was coaching Parra. He came across as a really genuine guy. We spoke of his love for the Dragons and his disappointment of being forced out. He was one season away from being the longest serving coach and that was a goal for him. I'm uncertain on whether he would be a good option but if he took the job I know his heart would be with the club and I don't think he cares who's feathers he ruffles which is a good thing generally but potentially disruptive. He'd certainly clean out any dead wood. I'm concerned like everyone about the way the team is performing but change for the sake of change is a scary approach if you get locked in with potentially another unsuccessful coach. If we had of got Belamy I'd be all for it, Laurie Daley has the right demeaner as well but unproven. We need a coach that the players will give 100% for. ATM we are 4/8 which for me is just below a pass and we have had no major injuries so we have no excuse. If I were price I wouldn't be resting the players over this 16 day break I'd be working their ass off! Wrestling coach every day followed by ball work then fitness & weights. It's really hard to say how our actual defense is traveling as we put it under too much presure by losing the ruck and everything snowballs after that but there is a big question on Alberts role as a defensive coach as winning the ruck is his 1st responsibility. In regard to Macgreggor I'm concerned about the lack of decoys we use which is part of the reason a sliding defense works so well against us. The other reason is our attack needs to be straightened with outside in runners and decoys. Even our early hit ups we need a decoy to take some of the heat. Outside of Hunt and Green (both have improved without being spectacular) we have a decent roster and we really don't have anyone playing badly, we are losing the game because of fundamentals and stadegy and it all starts with winning the wrestle in the ruck!

I once had dinner with Brian Smith at St. George Leagues club and thought the same. He's a prickly character to be sure - however as GT says he IS genuine.

I don't buy into his lack of success argument. He may not have won a GF but he's a v e r y effective cultural-change agent. Demands discipline and respect - not sure if he commands it. And besides, if we won 93 GF against Broncos there would be no question over his credentials.

Whether he is the best way forward for the Dragons is uncertain... but at least he has got SOMETHING. He is a seasoned campaigner who may well be driven by "unfinished business" - perhaps a far better motivation then desperation that goes with an unsuccessful rookie "barely hanging on to his job". We're talking about one of the greatest clubs on the planet BTW - St. George Illawarra. They deserve better!

There may be serious question marks over the effectiveness of Craig Young in his current role. Sorry Albert.

And GT i think you make a good point about the lack of decoy runners.

 

[TruSaint]

Whoever does take the reign, and I do have a soft spot for Brownie or Smith, has a big job on their hands.

Mentally, we are busted, with little or no passion in the jumper.

As mentioned by BFD, if we cant lisf and be competitive for Anzac day, or years debacle on Heritage day, their is problem way beyond the physical.

The players can absorb some blame, but culture comes from the top. Attitude, competitiveness and pride are sadly lacking.

 

[GT0007]

Whoever does take the reign, and I do have a soft spot for Brownie or Smith, has a big job on their hands.

Mentally, we are busted, with little or no passion in the jumper.

As mentioned by BFD, if we cant lisf and be competitive for Anzac day, or years debacle on Heritage day, their is problem way beyond the physical.

The players can absorb some blame, but culture comes from the top. Attitude, competitiveness and pride are sadly lacking.

It starts with the ruck! Fix that and the coaches won't look so bad...cue Albert. Remember we should be 5/8. I have a soft spot for Browny and Smith as well but compare them to Belamy or Bennett (When he came to the club) and you know you will be successful. With Browny and Smith I would feel more hopeful and it would only take a few loses for it to turn into despair again. Our current coaches can fix the problems as its not rocket science and IMO if they do we are a top 5 team, if we finish any lower this year they have failed

 

[TruSaint]

It starts with the ruck! Fix that and the coaches won't look so bad...cue Albert. Remember we should be 5/8. I have a soft spot for Browny and Smith as well but compare them to Belamy or Bennett (When he came to the club) and you know you will be successful. With Browny and Smith I would feel more hopeful and it would only take a few loses for it to turn into despair again. Our current coaches can fix the problems as its not rocket science and IMO if they do we are a top 5 team, if we finish any lower this year they have failed

I like your thinking GT, but i cant agree here. Have a real good look at our body language when we get behind.

No doubt the ruck, defensive line, combinations can all be fixed. They are physical matters. I worry about the mindset of the Club as a whole.

I would be jumping if we get to the play-offs, and will applaud the turn around... just cant see it happening at the minute.

 

[GT0007]

Ive said it before Kevin Walters , give him a shot because if one thing is evident we need a coach as far away as possible from the Dragons inward looking culture , i think its fair to say Bennett proved that. The joint needs a cleanout big time.The way i see it they are so busy blowing wind up each others arse they"ve lost sight of reality ,Price and Doust talk so much rhetoric they should be politicians.

I wouldn't be against Kevin Walters especially as he has been an assitant to Belamy and he would also have some good scouts in QLD for young guns coming through. My reservation is he has no head coach experience in the NRL so its a risk. On the Pro side neither did Madge or Robinson, Madge had also been an assistant to Bellyache and Robinson to Brian Smith. We are certainly getting to a point that only results count not words but its of more concern how we are playing the game and that the obvious flaws aren't being addressed

 

[GT0007]

I like your thinking GT, but i cant agree here. Have a real good look at our body language when we get behind.

No doubt the ruck, defensive line, combinations can all be fixed. They are physical matters. I worry about the mindset of the Club as a whole.

I would be jumping if we get to the play-offs, and will applaud the turn around... just cant see it happening at the minute.

I agree with the attitude and mindset but I see them as symptoms more so than the cause. Imagine backpedaling week after week and when you try to slow the ruck you get penalized? Or just being penalized out of the game in the first 20mins? It is wearing them down mentally as the players don't feel they have the answers to stop it. Give them some good defensive sets and ball in good field position and see how their attitude turns around especially with less fatigue. Our kicking game is currently atrocious as well which is the only ammo you have to balance the game back out in terms of field position.

It's a big concern that if players that went thru the disappointment of last year are able to bounce back mentally however as I stated if they get the ruck right and things start to fall into place I'm confident they will lift and get on a roll. We have the type of personal that will be hard to stop with belief.

 

[TruSaint]

I agree with the attitude and mindset but I see them as symptoms more so than the cause. Imagine backpedaling week after week and when you try to slow the ruck you get penalized? Or just being penalized out of the game in the first 20mins? It is wearing them down mentally as the players don't feel they have the answers to stop it. Give them some good defensive sets and ball in good field position and see how their attitude turns around especially with less fatigue. Our kicking game is currently atrocious as well which is the only ammo you have to balance the game back out in terms of field position.

It's a big concern that if players that went thru the disappointment of last year are able to bounce back mentally however as I stated if they get the ruck right and things start to fall into place I'm confident they will lift and get on a roll. We have the type of personal that will be hard to stop with belief.

Fair post. Success does breed confidence. Next few weeks critical IMHO.