Are you satisfied with the WT in 2008 ?

[TheMasterplan]

Wow eejit ... cutting

 

[Vicious]

Can anyone tell me what has changed in the past three years, why cant we beat the so called good sides. We have some flashy wins against the poor teams, but very seldom do we challange the good sides. This isn't anything new, its being going on for years.

So what has been done to turn this around ???. Every year same old same old. Their are sides out their with half the ability but twice the ticker who are doing better.

Why isnt the board asking questions of the coaching staff???
Time for a change, I think the chemistry between Sheens and the Team is gOOOOne

I agree that we haven`t done anything to rectify the lack of size and more so aggression that has been lacking badly since `2005, but when you and others state that we have a much more talented side than others such as the Raiders and the Knights, i`m wondering which highly talented players you are talking about ???

Hodgo- back to somewhere near his best this season being injury free, but on face value I still think it was the right decision to let him go the the UK, as he still has lost a yard of pace that is now gone forever and that being the case his lack of size is now playing against him more than ever.

Tuiaki- he was never going to be a long term winger, he`s played his fair share of solid games on the wing, but there`s no doubt his future is in the forwards if he wants to progress his career.

Collis- i expected massive things from Collis even before he`d ever made his 1st grade debut. He is still steadily progressing and has a good game here and there, but overall I believ he`s become very over rated. No doubt he has plenty of skill, but would be one of the slowest centres in the game and doesn`t make up for this with the aggression that is needed.

Lawrence- this kid will become a big name, no doubt about it. He`s still very green, but he`s shown that he`s a quick learner by the improvement he`s made in his defence as the season has progressed. His attack has really gone off the boil and he`s not showing near the same enthusiasm that made his the player that all league fans were raving about. No doubt that he`ll be back bigger and better than ever, but a stint back on the wing wouldn`t hurt as it might give him a bit of a reality check to let him know that a class 1st grader plays with enthusiasm each and every week.

McDonnell- no where near as bad as some of you imbociles make him out to be. Maybe he shouldn`t have received a 3 year contract and playing on the wing certainly isn`t ideal for a smaller man these days, but the bottom line is that the kid has his fair share of ability. He`s no good to us on the wing, we need bigger, stronger blokes to help our soft forwards get out of our own half, but McDonnell is a very good fullback, problem being he doesn`t have any apparent ball playing ability and because we don`t have any dominant in your face halves, we need a fullback with ball skills.
This could be solved if Matthew Head took conrol of the game like a good halfback should !

Peni Tagive- i reckon he applied himself very well in his first couple of 1st grade appearances and looks the real deal. He has all the attributes of a very good winger being big, strong and fast, he`s a definate keeper.

Beau Ryan- i`ve had a wrap on this kid since day one with Magpies as he has always shown plenty of willingness, enthusiasm and aggression. He seemed a bit sluggish in his limited time in 1st grade last season, but i`m assuming he may have been playing injured as he has since proven that he`s got his fair share of pace. We need to keep him at all costs and imo he should be playing in the centres as we need players like him that will put in 100% each and every time he pulls on the Wests Tigers jersey.

Tim Moltzen- ino he showed plenty of class in his limited time in 1st grade this season. This kid is a definate class 1st grader at either 5/8, centre or fullback, but he`s certainly not a dominant halfback like he was being talked up as last season. He`s got size, pace and skill and i`d be making sure I find a regular spot in first grade for him.

Rhys Hanbury- very elusive runner of the football and showed this in his limited chances in 1st grade early this season. He`s the type of player we need, someone who can make something out of nothing and i believe he needs to be given more opportunity to see what he can do in the top grade this season.

Shannon Gallant- this kid can really play, he`s small in stature but has a very big heart. Anyone wwho watches the Magpies lower grades will tell you that Shannon McDonnell was clearly the better footballer 2-3 seasons back, but on what i`ve seen of him, Shannon Gallant has really inproved over the past season or two and because of his more aggressive nature i`d say he is now probably a better 1st grade option than Shannon Mac.

Benji- This kid undoubtably had the world at his feet, but I really fear that the mental scars from his injuries will never let him reach his potential ??? If he has two dominant halves who would take control and let Benji play fullback and chime in when there is room to move i`m sure we`d again see him somewhere near his best, but I don`t think we`ll ever see him back near his best playing 5/8.

Matthew Head- a bit like Benji, he has all the ability in the world and has shown us a fair bit of it, but he is simply not taking control like he should be and how we need him to. Not sure if this is his own lack of confidence or the coach restricting him, but we need our halfback to really take control of the game much how Scotty Prince does.

John Morris- he`s never been an overly skilled footballer, he made his name on committment and enthusiasm. Parramatta originally baught him a s a hooker and he`s a dead set hooker, but how many hookers do we need ???

Dene Halatau- has really done sfa since `2005. Makes zero impact and doesn`t have the workrate to be a good lock, the jury is still out on whether or not he can again be effective as a centre and like John Morris, his best position really does seem to be at hooker where he has represented the Kiwis.

Liam Fulton- like Collis, he looked like he could be anything 3 seasons back and I really expected him to be the games number 1 lock by now. I`m not sure if his defensive workload is the reason or not, but he isn`t doing enough in attack. I still think he`s got his best football in front of him, but he definately needs to regularly hit the ball at speed like he does occasionally and we also need to let him use the ball more than what he does at present.

Point being, the whole backline is vastly under performing and it`s really only Heighno and Galloway that can really hold their heads up high and say they`ve had a pass mark in every game they`ve played this season although imo Heighno was borderline against the Roosters himself !
Anyone wanting to point the finger at wingers or Te`o who has only gone off the boil over the past few weeks is really kidding themesleves !!!
*** Will do my vesion on the bigger forwards later on.

 

[N.C.]

Wow eejit ... cutting

Who's trying to cut? I was saying goodbye... Talk about a persecution complex!

 

[N.C.]

A fair sum-up Vish, I haven't seen much of the lower graders so I can't really comment... But I think you're a bit harsh on Halatau and probably Marshall too.

Halatau went missing last year but seemed to be coming back earlier in the year. Most damaging when running from dummy half, as he always has been, but I would like to see him get an extended stint in the centres...

As for Marshall I think he is a long-term 5/8. I wouldn't mind seeing him at fullback but with a more dominant half-back taking the pressure off him he'd be back to his best in no time (injury permitting of course...)

Which brings me to Head. He looks frustrated and I get the feeling it is the coach restricting him and not his own confidence letting him (and consequently us) down. To pull him out of the game with the scores locked and ten on the clock is a brain snap of the highest order. I have no doubt that if Head is given more control of the team we'd see a radical improvement in no time at all...

 

[TheMasterplan]

Vish so you don't think we have a better side than Canberra, Newcastle, Cronulla, Manly and other various garbage that sit ahead of us ? We are choc full of quality players and come out asleep, devoid of enthusiasm, comatose and lacking attitude more weeks than not .. and this ain't new, it's been happening since Feb 2006

 

[super_coach]

Now Iam not sure if I agree with your player ratings,but the bottom line is we cant compete with the better sides in the comp and struggle to win the must win games. This has been the case for years, so what do we do, keep doing the same for 2009 and hope things that have not worked for three years will out of the blue work or do we start a fresh with a whole new approach.

For me its time for Sheens to move on with Noyce and start a fresh new start with a new team

 

[TheMasterplan]

Though of course there isn't too much left on the player market that is quality.
All we'll be left with are the corey paynes .. under contract but able to leave (obviously for the reason their existing club thinks they're not much chop)

 

[super_coach]

I think we should be able to get a fair side for 2009 if we look right through our ranks and I dont think we need to jump out their in the market place yet. Fullback will be the big worry,but I think we need a broom through camp Concord. New ideas,no percevied ideas on players. All coaches have a used by date and Sheens is long out of date

 

[TheMasterplan]

I look at every other team and see aggression when they run
We get dominated too easy
It's all well and good saying we don't have size but this has been on the songsheet for 3 yrs and we haven't addressed it.
Big blokes that run hard are dime a dozen

 

[Vicious]

I look at every other team and see aggression when they run
We get dominated too easy
It's all well and good saying we don't have size but this has been on the songsheet for 3 yrs and we haven't addressed it.
Big blokes that run hard are dime a dozen

Manly have the smallest back row in the comp, but they always get deep and run onto the ball hard and always hit hard in defence. If the back rowers, centres and fullback are all doing what they`re supposed to be doing by constantly getting deep and hitting holes and therefore giving the playmakers (the halfback and 5/8) options, even John Morris would look good occasionally as it would be harder to f*ck up than it would be to put the occasional ball runner into a hole. The off the ball work is practically more important than what the ball receiver has to do because MANY footballers get lazy and stop getting deep and running onto the football once they get used as a decoy a few times.
It frustrated the sh*te out of me the way we f*ck around when we`re attacking the opponents line. Side to side running sideways won`t do anything, simly get all the players in motion and hit 3-4 straight hard runners on the first 3-4 tackles and this will almost always create a shortage in the opposing defence by tackles 5-6 at the latest, the secret is having runners hitting the ball hard inside and out.

This is exactly where my point of view that stats are sh*te come into play. Wheres the stats for the blokes who run the decoy most, wheres the stat for the bloke that sucks in the most defenders every time the ball comes his way and wheres the stat for the bloke that causes the most turnovers from his defence ???

 

[TheMasterplan]

It amazes me why we run onto the ball from 2 or 3m and every other side has players that steam onto it from 8 or 10. Simple coaching could overcome this but our problem is our coaches are simpletons

 

[Vicious]

It amazes me why we run onto the ball from 2 or 3m and every other side has players that steam onto it from 8 or 10. Simple coaching could overcome this but our problem is our coaches are simpletons

That exact fact imo is the big issue. I know some caoches like to play a flat style of play, but the way we play is verging on rediculous, we almost always had players standing deep and hitting holes in `2005 why the change since then ???

 

[TheMasterplan]

Right so if a mug like us can see it, and can see teams full of garbage like manly and canberra run onto it from hard and deep and get quick PTBs, why can't an alleged supercoach ?

 

[Eddie.]

We are a rabble. A talented, disinterested, rudderless group of individuals that fold when the pressure gets to them. Whether the main problem is the Head Coach himself or the players does not matter. The fact is the coach is paid the big dollars to motivate and prepare these players to win games of football. Given the players he has available to him this shouldn't prove such a hefty task every season.

We have a talented squad. Our 1,6,7,9 are all "footballers" and we have the likes of Collis, Lawrence, Galloway, Gibbs, Fulton, Heightington and a few others that are considered at least in the Media as Rep players of the future. How the hell can this side fail to win half there games for 3 seasons in a row? It is a debacle and a disgrace. Any serious organisations that have such a history of underachievment usually conduct independent or at least internal reviews of their operations from head to toe.

What to WT do? Reward underperforming coaches with fat new contracts despite their lack of accountability and overall success. The Roosters punted Stuart after 2 poor seasons and did the sky fall in for them? Far from it. They appointed a young coach who is in touch with modern day players and methods. Parramatta got rid of SMith who consistently got them to Top 4 spots. Canterbury flicked Folkes who had them finishing in the Top half almost every season for a decade. There are clubs out there that have a winning mentality and a winning culture. They won't stand for continuing to finish between 9th and 11th and meandering along with mediocre seasons.

After the 2005 Grand Final we had all the ingredigents to go on and become a powerhouse. We had a squad brimming with talent and other teams on the slide. However in the past 3 seasons we have lost some of our best players and gone out and bought alot of Reserve Graders and continue to operate like a small like, playing out of 5 home grounds like we are just trying to survive or keep our heads above water. Due to the continuing development of our juniors coming through the ranks we still have the talent to be at least a Top half team, although recruitment and retention has weakened us in certain areas.

The attitude that at least WT are better then Balmain and Wests is one held by quite a few supporters. Its feeble and pathetic. Just because WT are Competative most weeks, I stress the word most, does not mean supporters that pay their money every week to watch this side should have to accept consistent bottom half finishes when we have the talent to finish at the very least in the Top 6.

Look at the likes of the Sharks and Newcastle. Both their sides are chock full of niff nuffs, however watch them play. It is clear that both their coaches have these sides motivated every week. There players run hard and tackle with heart. They play with courage and as a supporter you can accept losing if you know the side is playing to their ability. At the Tigers we have the complete opposite. A very talented squad that does not have any attitude in defence and some weeks and within periods of games look completely rudderless and disinterested.

I was prepared to give Sheens the benefit of the doubt in 2006. He did stunningly well in 2005 and that triumph but him some time for any future failures. By some time I mean 12 months not another 5 seasons as some supporters seem to think. At the end of 2007 I said Sheesn should of been put on notice that we had 12 months to sort this mess out or find the exit door. I would of flicked Royce after 2007. Here we are past the halfway mark of 2008, and our form and failures mirror that of 2007. There have been no serious shake up at the place and players look in a comfort zone and know the hollow threats of the coach don't hold any water.

If things continue I would be looking at putting Sheens upstairs into a role where we can oversee the structures below First grade, identifying talent. We should get rid of Sheens assistants, Simmons and Gentle are from losing cultures and the players won't respect them. We look stale under Sheens and would be wosrse under any of these 2. The conditioning staff can't exactly point to a great record with all out soft tissue injuries and injuries that seem to occur at Training. Murray, Folkes, Lang, Daniel ANderson and all the coaches that have been punted all have winning records. Although I wouldn't go down that road.

I would be headhunting someone like Matt Johns, Laurie Daley, Adrian Lamb or Nathan Brown. Many people probably gulp at me saying Brown, however I think he is probably alot better coach then he was when we started. We look like ac lub crying out for a coach with fresh ideas that would put players on notice and perhaps even re energise some who look stale.

 

[Dave Q]

source www.madpage.com

 

[tiger_nick]

great post eddie, i agree with everything youve said.

 

[Dave Q]

source: flickr

 

[scarcev]

source: flickr

Dave, we're just stirring the pot, you reckon we could borrow one of your spoons.

 

[phenisha]

My opinion would be something like the following,

benji -> reseves for a couple of weeks
lawrence -> reserves rest of the season
ryan -> wing spot for the foreseable future
teo -> dropped
farah -> I am going to cop a lot for this but rest him for a few weeks since he is playing well blow his normal standard, bring flanagan up who has not really disapointed anyone when he has come up. Personally I think farrah needs to toughen up mentally - every time he gets talked about as a candiate for rep footy or something similar in the papers the following week he mis fires, the way he currently handles the increased scrutiny i feel he will not get a look in for a couple of years.

Obviously I would like faster play the balls from our forwards and stronger hit ups as well but with our main forwards out I can wait to see what happends when we get a full squad back again - and see how we go when the real props share the workload

 

[madunit]

1 - Hodgson
2 - Ryan
3 - Tuiaki
4 - Collis
5 - Lawrence
6 - Marshall
7 - Head
8 - Gibbs
9 - Farah
10 - Galloway
11 - Payten
12 - Heighington
13 - Fulton

14 - Halatau
15 - Laurie
16 - Morris
17 - Harrison

That'd be my team (hopefully all are fit for our next match). Tuiaki needs to be more involved, move him infield a bit closer to the action, get his hands dirty. This way we strengthen our centre defence, as well as allowing for a fast winger on both wings.

Lawrence should move to the wing, he's worked bloody hard on defence all year and he has come along in leaps and bounds there, however it's been at the expense of his attack. On the wing, he'll be required to be more of an attacking player than defensive.

The forward packs speaks for itself, the Bench needs to have some forwards on it. Harrison was ordinary last week, but compared to the rest of the players in our side this season, he's been better than most. Daine Laurie earnt another run for sure. Halatau off the bench is a bit of worry with Morris on the bench. But with so many of our star players having a history of injuries in the past, Hodgson, Marshall, Head, Farah, it doesn't hurt to have a utility on the bench who can play in the forwards, like Halatau can.