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Are you strong enough?

jed

First Grade
Messages
9,280
Bay, I hope you don't think that I was having a go at you personally. The point of me challenging you yesterday was not to get your back up, merely to see if you had specific answers to the questions you were raising.

Bitching about the state of things on the forums is certainly cathartic, but it doesn't achieve much in the grand scheme of things. And burying your head in the sand is even worse, trying to pretend that we're dealing with a utopian club.

The crowds have dropped off, there's no doubt about that. But Canberra crowds are fickle, as soon as we start winning again, they will be back. And this happens with most clubs, we're in a far from unique situation. What makes it worse is that we're on our own in Canberra, hundreds of kilometers from the nearest club. While this is great for producing a home-ground advantage, like all the out-of-Sydney clubs have, it also makes it tough to get rival supporters to come down for the clash. And although there are dedicated Sydney-based Raiders fans (including among many others the SGB) who make the trip each week down to Bruce, there are nowhere near the number of fans travelling the Hume that we need, this needs to improve. And actually marketing the team would help.

Looking at our Premier League side, I'm content that we have anything but a dearth of talent. The vast majority of our playing roster are from the Canberra region, there's very few who have actually come from other clubs, and I can't see that changing. Yes, I see external recruiting as a definite problem, but it's one that we've lived with in the past and we've shown that we could mount a serious challenge last year, I know that it's something that we'll rise to again. Maybe not this season, maybe not even the next, but the Raiders will be triumphant again. And heavy recruiting is no guarantee of success - you only need to look at some of the teams that were active in the market last season.

Yes, I'm concerned that we haven't recruited, and I would also like some signal from management that they're doing something. I'm also concerned that our supercoach from last season isn't achieving the same results from a playing roster that is, for all intents and purposes, the same as last season.

But like I said before, bitching here will not achieve anything. If you want to affect change, you need to demonstrate to management how you feel, and so should everyone who has a strong view on things. Don't go off calling them merkins or morons, don't get abusive, don't attack their integrity. Explain that you're not happy, and that you think more can be done. If enough of us let our feelings be known, the message will sink through. RAID04 has already sent a letter to them, he (she?) should certainly not be the last.

The subject of someone from here applying to be elected to the board was also raised last week. I will whole-heartedly support anyone from here who nominates to be elected to the board. A genuine passion for the Raiders is what is needed at a management level (all levels in fact), and that is something that a 5 year course at Uni can not ever replace.
 

greeneyed

First Grade
Messages
8,135
thickos said:
Well all of us are prone to get negative at times. I've come on here and blasted some of the boys. But its a matter of picking yourself up again and preparing for next week.

When I think back to Saturday's game I think that yes, we were outplayed, but the opening 20 was ok, toots got held up, moggy's no-try, could have been different. Yes it wasn't different, but something to build on. It wasn't 100-0 or something.

True... we only got flogged by 40 points! I should have seen the bright side ie we didn't get flogged by 100! Why didn't I think of that on Saturday night! #-o

I'm all for being positive, but there is a limit! If Canterbury had been put in the sort of position we were in last week, they would have bonded together and toughed out a famous win. Our team had a meeting and then promptly fell apart. The manner of that loss has made me worried... where there is smoke, there is at least some fire.
 

Kris_man

Bench
Messages
3,582
- Thickos, I think there's truth to what you're saying, but it's not all true. Does being positive mean we ignore the reality of what's happening? I think sometimes the most positive thing one can do sometimes is accept that things aren't going so well, and then figure out steps to change that situation. Then, having implemented a plan, you have faith in that plan. But you can't have faith in nothing, and I also think that great faith first requires great doubt.
- McLinden, in the Canberra times on Friday, said something extremely similar to what you are saying Thickos. He said, and I quote:
"It would be a very easy option to get bogged down with it all, to criticise and to worry about it. The tougher thing would be to get on with the job and use it as a positive."
This was before the Penrith game. Sometimes, a postive attitude alone is not enough to succeed.
 

jed

First Grade
Messages
9,280
kris_man said:
Sometimes, a postive attitude alone is not enough to succeed.

True, but if all that is around is negativity, it's nigh on impossible to get out of the negativity slump.
 

thickos

First Grade
Messages
7,086
kris_man said:
- Thickos, I think there's truth to what you're saying, but it's not all true. Does being positive mean we ignore the reality of what's happening? I think sometimes the most positive thing one can do sometimes is accept that things aren't going so well, and then figure out steps to change that situation. Then, having implemented a plan, you have faith in that plan. But you can't have faith in nothing, and I also think that great faith first requires great doubt.
- McLinden, in the Canberra times on Friday, said something extremely similar to what you are saying Thickos. He said, and I quote:
"It would be a very easy option to get bogged down with it all, to criticise and to worry about it. The tougher thing would be to get on with the job and use it as a positive."
This was before the Penrith game. Sometimes, a postive attitude alone is not enough to succeed.

Yep I agree with that, well said kris_man. I never advocated just having blind faith and a hope that it will all come right. I'd like to see:

*better player negotiations
*better management and especially marketing
*more transparency from Elliott, including dropping unperforming players

but.....

I have faith that they do have a plan in place. It could be a better plan, but we have to accept our lot and work with what we have each season. And evolve to become better. These visions that some of you have, which lead to the bitching, do not happen overnight. Rebuilding a club is a long process.
 

Kris_man

Bench
Messages
3,582
- There's two extremes here: at on end of the spectrum is blind faith, the other end is scathing, unwarranted criticism. I think, Thickos, you've struck a pretty good balance. But, these are Raiders fans. Winners are grinners, and losers are...pissed off usually. Even though we're in the top 8, we have so far performed below expectation, and there will be people who are bitter. Me myself, I'm more towards the negative than positive side, but I'm trying not to be...
 
Messages
916
Thicko's is a gibberer. Just because we understand his gibberish is the problem, or is that not a problem or....

You all forget one thing about this 'crisis'. Alan Tongue will resume playing next season, and that my friends, will end any 'crisis' this club has. And I am serious. 8)
 

thickos

First Grade
Messages
7,086
Schif_Happens said:
Thicko's is a gibberer. Just because we understand his gibberish is the problem, or is that not a problem or....

You all forget one thing about this 'crisis'. Alan Tongue will resume playing next season, and that my friends, will end any 'crisis' this club has. And I am serious. 8)

:roll: gibberer




:lol:
 
Messages
1,617
Schif_Happens said:
You all forget one thing about this 'crisis'. Alan Tongue will resume playing next season, and that my friends, will end any 'crisis' this club has. And I am serious. 8)

How will this solve the 'crisis' he is ah ooker and that is a position where we actually havent lost a player

#-o
 
Messages
4,675
Tonguey's not a hooker, he's a hard working backrower. He's played there out of neccessity when Germ is injured though.
 
Messages
41
alan tongue is one of our best players in regards to players playing the game hard and with passion. i think after every loss we tend to over react a bit but after we smash the warriors this weekend everything will look a lot better.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Tonguey for me is second only to Lincoln Withers as far as players playing above their weight.

He's also a tackling machine, and I could see him playing hooker.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
i acually agree
tongue is an absolute champion, i honestly think tongue is our most passionate player, for me he is the type that when we are sitting behind our line after a try, he is the bloke that is there trying to fire the boys up

i think his work at the raiders is often over-looked by many, but not by me, he gets in and does the dirty work, if a balls on the ground he will jump on it, if a a bloke makes a break he will chase them untill they plant the ball down

i love the bloke and i think he NEEDS to be on our bench, he is the perfect benchie, and thats no dis-respect to his ability :clap: :clap:
 

thickos

First Grade
Messages
7,086
Bay 56...

I did not start this thread to have a go at you or any of 'the negos' directly. As others have said, everyone has a whinge and a bit of a carry on on these forums. People get disappointed after a loss, people get disappointed when favourite sons leave the club. But hey, 'schif happens.' ;-)

What I think gets everyone down though is harping on negative after negative. However an important distinction is that I am not putting the Raiders, management, Elliott or the players above criticism. But when good things happen we need to focus on those and give those things credit.

For mine, here are the GREAT things that have happened since Elliott was in charge:

*News Ltd pissed off
*Schif has become one of the best fullbacks in the comp
*Development of Rhino into a gun prop
*Recruiting of a feared forward pack
*Giving McLinden a regular jumper and not a wing position
*Blooding youngsters like Carney, Rothery, Smith, etc
*Turning us from a steaming pile of shit into contenders

Negatives:
*Losing local juniors
*Boogas and the inability to drop underperforming players (DREW!)
*Not getting to the point at press conferences and saying what the problem is with the team, hiding it with clever lines
*Poor player negotiations
*The club shafting the membership cards etc, the Army seating
*Changing a winning formula

There's probably more on each side. But since Elliott has been around the club has progressed in my books. Sure there has been f**k ups, there always will be. Just gotta minimise them and I'm sure we'll be on our way. The player pool is too good down here not for us to capitalise on it.
 

woodgers

Bench
Messages
3,569
You raise some good points Thickos.

Our management is up the creek. I am the first to bag them. This was way before the Joel, Ruben saga I was Pissed. You read my letter last week! But you do raise a really good point. Why harp on about things when you could be writing to the goons at HQ, the Canberra Times, Rugby League Week, whatever. How are we going to change anything carrying on on a rugby league forum? You don't like selections? Write constructively to Elliott. You think Elliott has lost the plot by saying we went pretty good against the Panthers? Send him an email.

There are heaps of things on here that we are all annoyed about, However not many solutions. Therefore I ask the question "What is the best thing we, as hardcore Raiders fans can do?" Bay, Greeneyed, whoever, you all raise decent points however we need action. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT????

As an aside, I agree with what Thickos was originally trying to get across. We need to look at the positives. We are in the 8, we have a good run in and at the moment we are getting close to full strength. Why are the majority cursing and acting as if it is a chore to follow the Raiders? Like I say above, there are problems, some bigger than others however we are not languishing on the foot of the table and Seibold won't be passing the ball to McNamara this weekend :D Once again....solutions.

AS A GROUP, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO CONSTRUCTIVELY DO?
 
Messages
916
centralcoastbrad said:
alan tongue is one of our best players in regards to players playing the game hard and with passion. i think after every loss we tend to over react a bit but after we smash the warriors this weekend everything will look a lot better.

well said brad :clap:
 

greeneyed

First Grade
Messages
8,135
woodgers said:
You raise some good points Thickos.

Our management is up the creek. I am the first to bag them. This was way before the Joel, Ruben saga I was Pissed. You read my letter last week! But you do raise a really good point. Why harp on about things when you could be writing to the goons at HQ, the Canberra Times, Rugby League Week, whatever. How are we going to change anything carrying on on a rugby league forum? You don't like selections? Write constructively to Elliott. You think Elliott has lost the plot by saying we went pretty good against the Panthers? Send him an email.

There are heaps of things on here that we are all annoyed about, However not many solutions. Therefore I ask the question "What is the best thing we, as hardcore Raiders fans can do?" Bay, Greeneyed, whoever, you all raise decent points however we need action. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT????

As an aside, I agree with what Thickos was originally trying to get across. We need to look at the positives. We are in the 8, we have a good run in and at the moment we are getting close to full strength. Why are the majority cursing and acting as if it is a chore to follow the Raiders? Like I say above, there are problems, some bigger than others however we are not languishing on the foot of the table and Seibold won't be passing the ball to McNamara this weekend :D Once again....solutions.

AS A GROUP, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO CONSTRUCTIVELY DO?

I have done a number of things about it. I don't just post here. I have written to Hadley... he read out one of my emails about the Monaghan debacle and how Canberra is disadvantaged vis a vis the Roosters in third party contracts. I have sent several emails to David Gallop complaining about the effect of the salary cap... questioning whether it is in the interests of rugby league that a local junior like Monaghan is poached by the team running first from the team struggling to make the 8.... no response.... I have sent the Canberra Times emails asking them to please help in a public campaign to keep our players... nice response from Bevan Hannan, but no action..... I have sent the club emails about how they let Monaghan go ... no response. I sent Clinton Schifcofske an email thanking him for his loyalty at a critical point... no response, unfortunately. I expected more of him.

Don't tell me I am just posting here negatively. #$%#$#$#$### off all of you who say I am just posting here negatively. I am doing every thing I can possibly think of to advance our club as a normal fan.

(#$*#$*#*($(#($#($(#($#($(#($($$($%(#**%#* OFF ALL OF YOU WHO SAY I AM JUST WHINGING HERE. How dare you.
 

Steven Gerrard

First Grade
Messages
5,013
Don't tell me I am just posting here negatively. #$%#$#$#$### off all of you who say I am just posting here negatively. I am doing every thing I can possibly think of to advance our club as a normal fan.

(#$*#$*#*($(#($#($(#($#($(#($($$($%(#**%#* OFF ALL OF YOU WHO SAY I AM JUST WHINGING HERE. How dare you.


Take a deep breath, and breathe in and breathe out slowly..... :?
 

greeneyed

First Grade
Messages
8,135
Raiders 2004 said:
Don't tell me I am just posting here negatively. #$%#$#$#$### off all of you who say I am just posting here negatively. I am doing every thing I can possibly think of to advance our club as a normal fan.

(#$*#$*#*($(#($#($(#($#($(#($($$($%(#**%#* OFF ALL OF YOU WHO SAY I AM JUST WHINGING HERE. How dare you.


Take a deep breath, and breathe in and breathe out slowly..... :?

No, No 1, I am sick of this. I am doing everything I possibly can as a fan. I have done all of the things that I am being told I should think of. I have tried to communicate the feelings of Raiders fans as widely as I think I possibly can. To be told I am just posting in this forum and not trying to do anything constructive.... Jesus......
 
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