ARL considering return to reserve grade

[Joker's Wild]

A national reserve grade is the way to go, broken in 2 X 8 team divisions ( QLD, NSW) each affiated with an NRL team.
You play each team in your division twice and once against teams from the other division.
QLD
4 Brisbane Teams
Burleigh Heads
Sunshine Coast
Central QLd
Mackay/Cairns

NSW
Norths
Newtown
Windsor
Wests/Campbelltown
Wentworthville
ShellHarbour
Central Coast
Midwest Orange/Bathurst/Dubbo

What are the 4 Brissy teams? Looking at that list you have not named Easts, Norths, Wynnum/Manly, Redcliffe, Souths/Logan, Ipswich and Tweed. Thats 7 into 4 and Im sure none of those sides would feel they arnt deserved of a spot. The QLD cup is very closely followed in SEQ and cutting teams would be disasterous to say the least.

Fix the NSW cup, that is whats needed here not some bastard mish mash of 2 separate comps

FTR, I reckon the cost of a national reserve grade comp would be the prohibitive factor and that is why it would never get off the ground. Best idea would be to have a NSW and QLD cup and then perhaps have a Challenge cup at the start of the following year where the top team in each comp takes each other on. Another good idea would be to have a national reserve grade Seven's comp.

Most sensible outcome IMO

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

I just moved to Qld and watched the Qld Cup on ABC1 between Burleigh and Northern. Deadset, if this is supposed to be the 2nd best open age comp in Australia, we are in trouble. That game made the players in the Metro Cup look like superstars!

 

[Gaba]

Reserve grade should of never be taken away

 

[DINGb@T]

I've always wondered why they haven't recreated the old NSWRL in reserve grade form. With teams merged etc in the modern era of the game it always made sense to me to have 'un-merged' versions playing reserves, so Balmain and Western suburbs, the Steelers and Dragons, Northern suburbs, etc playing as dual reserve teams for their respective NRL teams.

Rather than trying to hold onto the idea that the NRL is an expanded NSWRL people need to concede that the NRL is now a seperate entity to what was the NSWRL. Instead, set the NSW Cup up to be what the NSWRL was- the premier League competition of NSW. Leave the national stuff to the NRL.

And as for money opportunities, I've floated the idea before but what about a knock out comp between both the NSW and QLD Cups? Players are always saying they want fewer games but the TV stations dont want a reduction in content, so what about bringing back all the 'traditional' clubs into the NSW Cup and then, once a year during Origin and the Tests we hold the Cup Knock out competition where we get to see Redcliffe play the Illawarra Steelers, Northern Suburbs play Souths-Logan, etc etc. If both comps have 16 teams (32 teams in total) it would mean a 5 round competition that you could run on the weekends during the mid-year Test, the 3 State of Origin weekends and the Cup Grand Final on another special date of your choosing where our NRL players get the weekend off, tv gets their content (complete with recognisable teams that spectators can support), the QRL and NSWRL get high exposure for their competitions and we get to settle this 'which comp is better' argument once and for all.

(It would also allow for the inclusion of all those expansion teams like Port Moresby, Perth etc if they dont get into the NRL or need a leg up first)

I dont know about anyone else but I'm thinking it's a fairly eleagant solution to quite a few of our problems.

 

[westie]

NRL2 with clubs who are ambitous. Wests, Newtown, Central Coast Bears, WA, Sydney Bulls, QLD cup teams etc. NRL clubs align themselves and develop a loan/feeder system. NSW and QLD exist below this.

We can then have a cup competition.

 

[fourplay]

I've always wondered why they haven't recreated the old NSWRL in reserve grade form. With teams merged etc in the modern era of the game it always made sense to me to have 'un-merged' versions playing reserves, so Balmain and Western suburbs, the Steelers and Dragons, Northern suburbs, etc playing as dual reserve teams for their respective NRL teams.

Rather than trying to hold onto the idea that the NRL is an expanded NSWRL people need to concede that the NRL is now a seperate entity to what was the NSWRL. Instead, set the NSW Cup up to be what the NSWRL was- the premier League competition of NSW. Leave the national stuff to the NRL.

Yep completely agree.. bring back reserve grade!

And as for money opportunities, I've floated the idea before but what about a knock out comp between both the NSW and QLD Cups? Players are always saying they want fewer games but the TV stations dont want a reduction in content, so what about bringing back all the 'traditional' clubs into the NSW Cup and then, once a year during Origin and the Tests we hold the Cup Knock out competition where we get to see Redcliffe play the Illawarra Steelers, Northern Suburbs play Souths-Logan, etc etc. If both comps have 16 teams (32 teams in total) it would mean a 5 round competition that you could run on the weekends during the mid-year Test, the 3 State of Origin weekends and the Cup Grand Final on another special date of your choosing where our NRL players get the weekend off, tv gets their content (complete with recognisable teams that spectators can support), the QRL and NSWRL get high exposure for their competitions and we get to settle this 'which comp is better' argument once and for all.

(It would also allow for the inclusion of all those expansion teams like Port Moresby, Perth etc if they dont get into the NRL or need a leg up first)

I dont know about anyone else but I'm thinking it's a fairly eleagant solution to quite a few of our problems.

The idea sounds good, a challenge cup style competition, and I'm sure quite a lot of people would tune in to see the final atleast. But wouldn't all the NSWRL teams be depleted due to to origin. It would probably work better not during origin.

 

[Scorpio30]

Stupid idea. another great example of the absolute arrogance of NSW league supporters. Unbelievable! :crazy:

The QLD cup has built itself to be a quality competition. NSW can get their own sh*t together and if clubs feel its best to send players to QLD, so be it. No way should we settle on a national reserve grade competition to please NSW clubs.

LOL You must be taking the piss. Were you happy when Brisbane and the Gold Coast entered the NSWRL?

 

[Scorpio30]

I've always wondered why they haven't recreated the old NSWRL in reserve grade form. With teams merged etc in the modern era of the game it always made sense to me to have 'un-merged' versions playing reserves, so Balmain and Western suburbs, the Steelers and Dragons, Northern suburbs, etc playing as dual reserve teams for their respective NRL teams.

Rather than trying to hold onto the idea that the NRL is an expanded NSWRL people need to concede that the NRL is now a seperate entity to what was the NSWRL. Instead, set the NSW Cup up to be what the NSWRL was- the premier League competition of NSW. Leave the national stuff to the NRL.

And as for money opportunities, I've floated the idea before but what about a knock out comp between both the NSW and QLD Cups? Players are always saying they want fewer games but the TV stations dont want a reduction in content, so what about bringing back all the 'traditional' clubs into the NSW Cup and then, once a year during Origin and the Tests we hold the Cup Knock out competition where we get to see Redcliffe play the Illawarra Steelers, Northern Suburbs play Souths-Logan, etc etc. If both comps have 16 teams (32 teams in total) it would mean a 5 round competition that you could run on the weekends during the mid-year Test, the 3 State of Origin weekends and the Cup Grand Final on another special date of your choosing where our NRL players get the weekend off, tv gets their content (complete with recognisable teams that spectators can support), the QRL and NSWRL get high exposure for their competitions and we get to settle this 'which comp is better' argument once and for all.

(It would also allow for the inclusion of all those expansion teams like Port Moresby, Perth etc if they dont get into the NRL or need a leg up first)

I dont know about anyone else but I'm thinking it's a fairly eleagant solution to quite a few of our problems.

I have always thought that below the NRL that the next tier should have clubs "un-merged" playing in a comp similar to 1995

 

[Scorpio30]

I just moved to Qld and watched the Qld Cup on ABC1 between Burleigh and Northern. Deadset, if this is supposed to be the 2nd best open age comp in Australia, we are in trouble. That game made the players in the Metro Cup look like superstars!

Yup...Its over rated thats for sure.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

I've always wondered why they haven't recreated the old NSWRL in reserve grade form. With teams merged etc in the modern era of the game it always made sense to me to have 'un-merged' versions playing reserves, so Balmain and Western suburbs, the Steelers and Dragons, Northern suburbs, etc playing as dual reserve teams for their respective NRL teams.

To a degree it could work, but there are a few problems, and some advantages. THe obvious advantage is that merged clubs can now field teams to replace NRL teams without NSW Cup exposure currently (Brisbane, Nth Qld, and Gold Coast).

There are a few problems though, like the Central Coast Storm, but I'm sure that will be addressed somehow like adding Melbourne to Reserves based out of Melbourne. Also, players are looking for pathways to the NRL through Reserve Grade, meaning those teams without 1st Grade alliances will be whipping boys of any comp. That probably would mean not much will happen until 2012 when the NRL gets its act together over expansion in 1st Grade.

As for merged clubs, Balmain and Wests are unmerged in the NSW Cup, with Wests being the Tigers (the NRL version) reserves side and Balmain being full of park footy players and Ryde-Eastwood A-Graders. The Dragons on the other hand operated as a joint venture in all grades from the beginning (or the 2nd year, 2000). Whilst I'd love to see the St George Dragons running around again, the problem arises that there will be too many players with the idea that dropped NRL players will either have to be split evenly between both teams (creating confusion) or to just one side (making everything lopsided in Reserves).

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Reserve Grade back, and watch my three grades of footy a day! I can't think of any solutions to the problems I raised at the moment, but I am very keen to see this competition working properly again (and without the Metro Cup teams involved).

 

[Iafeta]

It would be great to go along and watch three grades of competitive club v club footy.

The question really is though whether club's could sustain it. The Warriors for instance have a first grade and U20s team, but their version of reserve grade is an affiliation with the Auckland Vulcans, who aren't part of the Warriors. Most of those footballers are amateurs, and the fringe Warriors play in it with them.

 

[Iafeta]

A national reserve grade is the way to go, broken in 2 X 8 team divisions ( QLD, NSW) each affiated with an NRL team.
You play each team in your division twice and once against teams from the other division.
QLD
4 Brisbane Teams
Burleigh Heads
Sunshine Coast
Central QLd
Mackay/Cairns

NSW
Norths
Newtown
Windsor
Wests/Campbelltown
Wentworthville
ShellHarbour
Central Coast
Midwest Orange/Bathurst/Dubbo

Isn't part of the deal to grow crowd numbers? Take the Warriors an example... who are they affiliated with out of that lot? (I believe we were for a while with Newtown, at least we sent players there back in the early 2000s).

What sort of crowds are attending NSWRL Cup and QLD Cup? 1000 per game on low price tickets? Taking the 'stars' out of that competition and moving them into a proper club orientated reserve grade still with a tier two below that for your Newtown's et al isn't going to destroy them. But the growth in crowds will be positive for NRL, back to a full day out at the footy.

 

[Red Bear]

My issue is that a reserve comp could spell the end of clubs such as Norths, Wests, Balmain and Newtown, which would be sh*t considering the efforts they put in over the last few years to get where they are currently.
If it was a reserve grade comp that still allowed for feeder sides, ie that Norths were still Souths feeder side and Newtown still Easts feeder side it wouldnt be too bad.

However im hoping in a few years that that shouldnt effect us bears fans too much

 

[Jason Maher]

Absolutely there should be 3 grades - NRL, open age reserves, and U20s. Provides a better pathway for young players, and a much better situation for players struggling with form or injury to get back into the swing of things. With 3 grades we could laso have a proper club championship. The only issue is funding, which would not be such an issue if the NRL could avoid its stupid conflict of interest and snare a decent TV deal.

 

[fatshark]

Wont happen, half the clubs cant afford it.NSWRL,ARL,QRL,CRL all need to sort it out as well.

 

[Canard]

Are fans "demanding it"? Ive never seen much of a push on even these forums for such a thing or much chat from other fans.

Heck there's a bigger push to ban "bombs" or start some midweek cup than there is for this.

I remember back in its final years, I would go to the games to see reserve grade games and there would be maybe 1000 people there in the first half, with the crowd only turning up to the last 10mins or so of the game.

 

[DINGb@T]

The idea sounds good, a challenge cup style competition, and I'm sure quite a lot of people would tune in to see the final atleast. But wouldn't all the NSWRL teams be depleted due to to origin. It would probably work better not during origin.

Sorry, didn't explain myself well enough. I actually meant the NRL players would play Origin on Wednesday night, then have the bye while the NSW Cup and QLD Cup teams play their knock out rounds during the weekend. They'd be 2 different sets of players so no one would be double booked (A few simple eligibility rules would only allow players who have played a certain number of games for their respective side, excluding NRL players from dropping back just for one game).

The TV stations can then pick which of the knockout games they want to show for the best ratings in the initial rounds (they'd have 16 games to choose from in the first round, 8 in the second, 4 in the third) and then the semis and final would pick themselves. If you started on City/Country weekend you could tie it all into a celebration of grass roots footy with a carnival-like atmosphere spread across all the suburban grounds throughout the country (where lower crowds wouldn't be a problem) and the competition building to a crescendo with a glorious Sunday afternoon game held at the comp leaders home ground (although now I'm just getting all misty eyed ) complimenting the conclusion of the Origin series (Origin on Wednesday night, Cup final on Sunday arvo). It would be grand...

As for Melbourne et al, there's nothing saying they can't shift their feeder team to one of the QLD Cup sides (or a pair thereof). The Queensland NRL teams will be using teams they're not 'directly' linked to (Titans are currently using Tweed and Ipswich, etc) so Melbourne can just associate itself with a few of them if desperate and Central Coast Bears can have their own feeder team back. Personally I'd like to see a Wellington team as one of the expansion clubs, that way the Warriors could have both NZ teams as feeder clubs, and the Storm can link with the Perth Reds when they join one of the Cup comps if they dont want a QLD team.

And yeah, the lack of players would be a concern but I think the impact of the Toyota Cup can be used to our benefit there. Essentially, every season about a third of the Toyota competition becomes too old to keep playing where they are. These players, used to the week to week grind of footy, will all be looking for teams to play with. Not all will be good enough but given that there will be more and more each season we'll soon be swimming in potential players. Add them to the players already playing in the QLD Cup etc and we should have enough players, though they'll take a few seasons to 'settle in'.

 

[coach]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25339997-5006066,00.html

....IT'S what every league fan wants: Three grades playing at the same ground on game day, just like in the old days.

What a load of codswallop!

I was out at ANZ Stadium on Monday night at 5pm. The U-20's game had been going for 15 minutes. There wasn't many people there then. Most of the crowd showed up towards the end of that game. If we had three grades on there that day come the kickoff to the first game there would have been no one there.

It is a romaticised idea, an urban myth if you like that league fans have always and will again watch all three grades. In days gone past when we did have three games on there was the odd occassion that I did go and watch all three grades. Come the kick off to the first game I felt pretty lonely becuase there were not many other fans there. Back then most fans showed up around halftime in the reserve grade.

Anyone who suggests that 1,000's of fans will be rolling in early to see the lower grades is having themselves on.

 

[Rastus_in_Melbourne]

What a load of codswallop!

I was out at ANZ Stadium on Monday night at 5pm. The U-20's game had been going for 15 minutes. There wasn't many people there then. Most of the crowd showed up towards the end of that game. If we had three grades on there that day come the kickoff to the first game there would have been no one there.

It is a romaticised idea, an urban myth if you like that league fans have always and will again watch all three grades. In days gone past when we did have three games on there was the odd occassion that I did go and watch all three grades. Come the kick off to the first game I felt pretty lonely becuase there were not many other fans there. Back then most fans showed up around halftime in the reserve grade.

Anyone who suggests that 1,000's of fans will be rolling in early to see the lower grades is having themselves on.

Spot on.

NSW need to fix their current situation rather than making others the solution to their problems.

 

[aussies1st]

I've always liked having all our players at the same place for game day, it means any late replacement can be replaced for a player from the squad rather than u20s.