ARL considering return to reserve grade

[gong_eagle]

ARL considering return to reserve grade

By James Phelps | April 16, 2009


http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25339997-5006066,00.html

....IT'S what every league fan wants: Three grades playing at the same ground on game day, just like in the old days. And today The Daily Telegraph can reveal that the ARL is considering bowing to public demand, conceding that the muddled NSW lower grade system doesn't work.
ARL boss Geoff Carr last night said he would consider a new look reserve grade playing on NRL match day alongside the Under 20s after Bulldogs coach Kevin Moore threatened to abandon the NSW Cup because of a scheduling blunder.
Moore slammed the competition as "ridiculous" and a "joke" and warned of sending players to the Queensland Cup because of a farcical situation that has delayed the return of his $200,000 a year prop Jarrad Hickey by 20 days.
Man mountain Hickey's NRL return from a back injury has been put off because of a two-week break in the NSW Cup, which is widely regarded as a failure.
Moore also revealed that the NSWRL scheduling fiasco would delay the NRL returns of forgotten Bulldogs Jamal Idris, Lee Te Maari and Ben Barba.
"Hickey has been busting his arse to get back early and now he is fit to play but can't find a game," Moore said. "Our feeder side, the Bankstown Bulls, didn't play last weekend because of Easter and won't play this weekend because they have the bye. I would have picked Jarrad this week had he had a game under his belt."
NSW Cup teams only play 20 games compared to the NRL's 24, exposing a gaping hole between the Under 20s National Youth Competition and the NRL.
Moore's spray last night prompted ARL boss Geoff Carr to concede that the NSW Cup was a work in progress before saying he was open to a return to three-match game days.
"We need NRL clubs to support this competition," Carr said.
"We want to be the second tier NRL competition. Premier League was always the second competition but then the Under 20s started."
Moore slammed the NSW Cup as substandard and said only a few NYC players were ready for the NRL.
He claimed it was a major issue.
"The Queensland Cup is a far superior competition," Moore said.
"The Bulldogs have stayed loyal to the NSWRL but I don't know how much longer we can do that.
"I believe the players we send back to the NSW Cup are playing in a sub-standard competition.
"The quality is diluted by the fact there is another competition (The Bundaberg Red Cup) that is in direct competition with it.
"I can't get blokes fit or get a gauge of form. It is quite ridiculous. The word 'diabolic' is close to the mark. I can't get a bloke on the fringe of first grade into a regular, good quality competition."
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25339997-5006066,00.html

 

[gong_eagle]

Path to the top is missing a couple of steps

By James Phelps | April 16, 2009

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25340777-5016307,00.html




WHAT was so wrong with the old days when you could spend an afternoon watching Presidents Cup, reserve grade and then first grade? Nothing. That's what needs to return. And in a hurry.
NSW is at risk of losing some of its most promising players to Queensland or, God forbid, rival codes, because of a gaping hole between the NYC and the NSW Cup.
The Under-20s competition is great but it should not have come at the expense of an elite competition below the NRL. League powerbrokers who pushed for the NYC will argue that is what the NSW Cup is - a competition as good as reserve grade. It is not.
It is a Metro Cup comp with a sprinkling of NRL talent. Glorified park football.
And it is embarrassing for NRL-standard players like Jarrad Hickey and Daniel Holdsworth who must play at grounds like Ringrose Park in front of a couple of hundred fans, mostly friends and family. Or not play for 20 days because of gaps in the competition.
The Bankstown Bulls, where the Bulldogs send their full-time over-age players who miss out on NRL, will play 20 games this year in the competition regular - four less than the NRL.
That means those NRL-contracted players will have nowhere to play on those weekends, losing match fitness and missing out on the opportunity to push for an NRL berth.
What a farce. That's why clubs like the Sea Eagles and the Raiders base their reserve- grade teams in Queensland.
The axing of the Premier League in 2007 was a cost-cutting exercise but it has become a major issue. NRL players who don't make the grade are now sent for a run around the park with former Metropolitan Cup teams.
It's no wonder coaches like Kevin Moore have had enough. The NRL wanted an elite under-age national competition to ward off threats from AFL and soccer.
They got it, but at the expense of a decent over-age competition and league will pay the price. Players over 20 are dropping out of the game or moving to Queensland to play in the Queensland Cup. There is no longer a genuine NRL pathway for them in NSW.
And that is bad for the NRL because most teenagers aren't ready for the NRL.
The Broncos know this - that's why they are playing their best young talents in the Queensland Cup, not in the Toyota Cup.
Sure guys like Israel Folau and Dave Taylor were born ready but most, especially forwards, need time to develop.
We need a proper, professional pathway to the NRL and we don't have it.
There is a solution.
The NSW-based NRL teams, plus the Raiders and Melbourne, could have a reserve- grade competition to be played on game day before or after the Under-20s. Travel costs would be minimal and players would not have to leave their clubs to get a game.
Of course wages would be higher, but I have been told clubs would be able to find sponsors for reserve-grade sides.
There are issues. Stadium managers don't want the wear and tear on the ground and scheduling would be a problem but we are talking about the future of the game.

 

[Brycey]

Need a national reserve comp - I know a lot of people are very much against this and it would affect the Qld comp but I think it is needed for the above reasons and to bring more consistency to the game.

 

[aussie_q_factor]

Need a national reserve comp - I know a lot of people are very much against this and it would affect the Qld comp but I think it is needed for the above reasons and to bring more consistency to the game.

Stupid idea. another great example of the absolute arrogance of NSW league supporters. Unbelievable! :crazy:

The QLD cup has built itself to be a quality competition. NSW can get their own sh*t together and if clubs feel its best to send players to QLD, so be it. No way should we settle on a national reserve grade competition to please NSW clubs.

 

[Henson Park Hornets]

What gets me is people that keep saying the Qld Cup is superior to the NSW Cup... What do they base that on?

I do agree that there needs to be something done with the NSW Cup, but it doesn't help that clubs like Manly and Canberra send their players to the Qld Cup and the Dogs who jump into bed with the Bulls, who no body has heard of, which adds to the idea of it being park football.

The NSW Cup to be a success it needs clubs to have identities that people can relate to, Canterbury, St George, Penrith, not Bankstown, Shellharbour, and Windsor.

 

[Joker's Wild]

For once I am in total agreement with a Qlder.

The Qld cup is fantastic and does not deserve to be degraded because clubs want to be rid of the joke that is the NSW cup. Canberra, Manly and Newcastle having no presence in that comp and the Bulldogs threatening to pull out speaks volumes about where it is at.

A national reseve grade comp is not the answer.

What gets me is people that keep saying the Qld Cup is superior to the NSW Cup... What do they base that on?

The fact that 3 prominent clubs have pulled the support for the comp and have linked with or created teams in the Qld cup is a pretty big indicator mate.

 

[Bluebags1908]

What a load of rubbish most of these 2 articles are. The NSW Cup is no stronger or weaker than the Queensland Cup. If a NSW Cup team played a Queensland Cup team 10 times it would be 5 games apiece.
Whilst I agree the Jarrad Hickey situation with the match scheduling is unacceptable and needs to be looked at, this can easily be fixed in future seasons and to say that the NSW Cup is a sub-standard competition is nonsense. If the NRL or NSWRL established a revamped reserve grade competition, it will be the same NSW Cup players that will fill the reserve grade squads!
The big plus of the current NSW Cup is that it gives local community-based clubs and former first grade sides in Newtown, North Sydney, Wests, Balmain, Wentworthville, Windsor, and Bankstown Bulls a boost in profile, and using these 2nd-tier clubs with separate identities in tandem with the NRL club is a better tool in promoting the game at a grass-roots level in their local communities. It gives the 2nd tier clubs and competition a distinct and separate identity (same as Queensland Cup, funnily enough!). If the NRL clubs fielded reserve grade sides and assumed the same name as the NRL side, the name and identity of the 2nd tier competition will be lost which will be a blow for the game at grass-roots level.
And how contradictory are these comments when they state that reserve grade should be played with NRL and Under 20's to make all 3 grades, yet at the same time Kevin Moore is threatening to send their reserve team to the Queensland Cup? How is a NSW-based NRL team's reserve grade side in the Queensland Cup team supposed to play as a curtain raiser to a NSW-based team's NRL home games?
It's as if playing a "revamped" reserve grade/NSW Cup as a curtain raiser to NRL games is somehow going to make the same squad of current NSW Cup players that are currently playing in the NSW Cup bigger, stronger, and faster?
I sense this is just a pot-shot at the NSWRL by News Limited.

 

[BrisVegas]

For once I am in total agreement with a Qlder.

The Qld cup is fantastic and does not deserve to be degraded because clubs want to be rid of the joke that is the NSW cup. Canberra, Manly and Newcastle having no presence in that comp and the Bulldogs threatening to pull out speaks volumes about where it is at.

A national reseve grade comp is not the answer.


The fact that 3 prominent clubs have pulled the support for the comp and have linked with or created teams in the Qld cup is a pretty big indicator mate.

The NSWRL need to follow the QRL's example. A review was undertaken, and measures were put in place that has led to an administration of a more professional, business minded nature. The QLD Cup now has greater stability in the teams that compete in it, with televised games and a terrific geographical spread of teams (Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton, Sunshine Coast, Redcliffe, Brisbane, Ipswich, Logan, Gold Coast, and Tweed Heads).

If the NSWRL can't get their house in order they should prepare for more NRL teams to terminate associations. Along with the Bulldogs, whispers that both the Dragons and the Storm (who's Central Coast Bears partnership is a year by year proposition) may have QLD Cup associations next year, with the Knights also a remote possibility.

And to think some people want the NRL under the ARL's (and therefore the NSWRL's) control. They can't even run a state cup, and the driving force of the U20's comp were clubs sick of dealing with the NSWRL.

 

[Jono078]

Good.

There should be Reserve Grade, Under 20s (under 21s IMO, but that's another discussion) and then First Grade, every team should have a team in each comp.

 

[Timmah]

Stupid idea. another great example of the absolute arrogance of NSW league supporters. Unbelievable! :crazy:

The QLD cup has built itself to be a quality competition. NSW can get their own sh*t together and if clubs feel its best to send players to QLD, so be it. No way should we settle on a national reserve grade competition to please NSW clubs.

Oh lol... the ultimate hypocrisy from QLDers... sprouting all the nationalism of the competition, less Sydney teams more QLD teams and expansion talks... and then when it comes to the crunch - bang, you're just the same.

In the meantime, in all states we've got first grade quality players playing park footy, instead of on the same game day as their NRL counterpart.

Think of the sponsorship revenue a national reserves comp could manage...

 

[Timmah]

The more comps under the one umbrella the better BTW - three grades run by the NRL would be a big step, but I don't like the idea of the ARL running it. Just means more fingers in more pies.

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

Path to the top is missing a couple of steps

By James Phelps | April 16, 2009

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25340777-5016307,00.html

......Of course wages would be higher, but I have been told clubs would be able to find sponsors for reserve-grade sides.
There are issues. Stadium managers don't want the wear and tear on the ground and scheduling would be a problem but we are talking about the future of the game.

It amazes me that we have gone without a reserve grade system for so long. Some argue the feeder system is ok, but its just not the same.

In the professional arena, you just need a top flight, reserve grade and under 20's. Whats missing in our country is a good open-age reserve team CLOSELY linked. We need to bring all the 'almosts'/returning from injury/etc to one place.

In most top professional team sports, this is the case. A side. Reserve side. Junior Side.

The fans want it. And the system works.

If players cannot make it through that path, then they are not good enough/not needed by the club.

 

[The Dodger]

queenslanders need to get off their high horse and think back when it was NSWRL and they wanted to join the comp.

 

[flamin]

I'm undecided on a national reserve comp but I definitely think there needs to be a more streamlined structured approach in the NSWRL with the Bundaberg Rum Cup also running. I want to know what would happen to all the old 1st grade teams that currently play in the NSW Cup.

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

Need a national reserve comp - I know a lot of people are very much against this and it would affect the Qld comp but I think it is needed for the above reasons and to bring more consistency to the game.

I strongly believe this too.

You need to support the nrl. The qld cup and everyone else should be stepping aside.

You lead with the best product. The NRL, you dont dilute it.

And a national reserve system is only going to help.

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

I'm undecided on a national reserve comp but I definitely think there needs to be a more streamlined structured approach in the NSWRL with the Bundaberg Rum Cup also running. I want to know what would happen to all the old 1st grade teams that currently play in the NSW Cup.

You have not thought it through enough. If you had, you would be considering storming the ARL headquarters to make this happen.

 

[Danish]

How can people honestly be against a national reserve grade competition??

To me it is the logical step. The NRL should push ahead with such a system immediately and give our 20+ y.o fringe first graders a decent competition with TV coverage to play in, rather than park footy.

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

How can people honestly be against a national reserve grade competition??

To me it is the logical step. The NRL should push ahead with such a system immediately and give our 20+ y.o fringe first graders a decent competition with TV coverage to play in, rather than park footy.

To me it is as well..

The one compromise i would make is for cost purposes, like in the articles in the paper, nsw act and victoria have their own one, and qld another.

But honestly, i think this dilutes the system somewhat, and is a poor second.

We should not be considering poor seconds. Or settling for them

 

[morley101]

A national reserve grade is the way to go, broken in 2 X 8 team divisions ( QLD, NSW) each affiated with an NRL team.
You play each team in your division twice and once against teams from the other division.
QLD
4 Brisbane Teams
Burleigh Heads
Sunshine Coast
Central QLd
Mackay/Cairns

NSW
Norths
Newtown
Windsor
Wests/Campbelltown
Wentworthville
ShellHarbour
Central Coast
Midwest Orange/Bathurst/Dubbo

 

[Different kind of Rabbit]

If you get rid of all the governing bodies presiding over Rugby League in NSW and replace them with one, then the next logical step is to streamline the Competitions below the NRL. Until we thin out the number of governing bodies any step like this will be redundant as the competition will not be run as efficiently and effectively as it could be and would probably just fall over again.

In saying that, I can't wait for the day when I can go to the Footy and watch three full games again.

FTR, I reckon the cost of a national reserve grade comp would be the prohibitive factor and that is why it would never get off the ground. Best idea would be to have a NSW and QLD cup and then perhaps have a Challenge cup at the start of the following year where the top team in each comp takes each other on. Another good idea would be to have a national reserve grade Seven's comp.