Around the Grounds

[The Axe of Druss]

Early yardage on kick returns is so important in the modern game, I just cant see Marz being dropped while we don't have an alternative who can bring what he does in the backfield even with his errors

 

[slotmachine]

Ponga is second in the comp in errors, are we dropping him?

 

[perverse]

Ponga is second in the comp in errors, are we dropping him?

It's an awkward position. There's a lot of short memories going on in here, and this happens every time when Kalyn has a drop in form. It only takes one game for him to explode again and suddenly everyone is "f**k this guy is the best I've seen", "King Kalyn!", "best player in the comp!" etc.

However it's hard to ignore that this does keep happening, too. That's hard for people to swallow from the highest paid player in the game. People aren't interested in marketing and off field value, they want the on field returns for that outlay.

I'm not sure what the answer is right now to that puzzle tbh. I do know that I haven't forgotten who Kalyn Ponga is though, like many seem to.

 

[Knight Tales]

If QLD win tonight I am almost certain KP is MOTM. I can see him having a blinder tonight.

 

[slotmachine]

who Kalyn Ponga is though, like many seem to.

A player who has never had a consistently good season, let alone make us a consistently good side.

 

[perverse]

A player who has never had a consistently good season, let along make us a consistently good side.

It's an oversimplification with some revisionist history, but yeah he hasn't dragged us to the promised land. I think the main issue isn't so much that, it's that we can see with our own two eyes the difference between when he's giving it everything and when he isn't - and we see too much of the isn't. That's probably at the heart of why our supporter base is so fickle with him. Best mates one day, f**k off the next.

Given that he's on light duties in Origin camp, it's clear that he's carrying something right now that everyone is being a bit hush hush about. At the moment, I still prefer a future where KP and Sharpe both fit in the same team, but yeah it looks awkward. I did say before the last match that the club would be in an awkward spot if that spine performed better without Kalyn, and here we are.

 

[HarVeeGee]

A player who has never had a consistently good season, let along make us a consistently good side.

A player who has very specific "fit" needs, to boot, which have never been easy to address.

It's not some grand portrayal of the bloke to just acknowledge that every decision the club has made for the last seven years has been because Ponga is our best asset & so he's had us bent over a barrel. And now he's not. He has no leverage anymore. He's not only not our best asset anymore, I don't think he's even top three. Contracts matter. It matters that Sharpe & Lucas likely both make about $800K less. Is Ponga more than twice as valuable as either of them? Has he even been *as* valuable as either over 2024/25?

 

[The Axe of Druss]

I did say before the last match that the club would be in an awkward spot if that spine performed better without Kalyn, and here we are.

The fact it was against a reserve grade Penrith side somewhat blunts the point though

Im yet to be convinced we are anything but worse without Kayln

 

[perverse]

He's not only not our best asset anymore, I don't think he's even top three.

lol, yes ok. Are you measuring a players quality and value over periods of weeks, or months and years? Everything good we've done on the field for the past 7 years... literally everything, has come off the back of that man. I'll cop consistency issues and a lot of other criticisms of him, but there's 16 other teams in the comp that would burn their rosters to the ground to have him too, and 2 more coming in that would also choose to build their entire existance around him in a heartbeat.

He's brought us more joy than any other player at least since Aku, potentially since Joey.

And I'm not even saying your broader points that Kalyn has a question mark over him right now aren't valid, but you don't have to stretch this far to make the point imo. The argument stands on its feet based purely on whether you can make Sharpe and Ponga work in the same team, and whether the team balance is better without Kalyn.

The fact it was against a reserve grade Penrith side somewhat blunts the point though

Im yet to be convinced we are anything but worse without Kayln

We're very easily impressed sometimes. If Penriths halfback could tackle we might not be having this conversation at all.

 

[slotmachine]

Im yet to be convinced we are anything but worse without Kayln

In a vacuum if you minus KP and replace him with no one, sure, definitely worse.

If Sharpe is playing fullback you don't lose *that* much. Purely from a speed of play and intent perspective it's an upgrade.

Then if the stars align and you take KPs $1.5m and spend 750k on a halfback (who doesn't even need to be that good, but preferably with a huge boot), 750k on a prop and play Brown at 6 (where he should be) you can't convince me we are not a better side.

Everything good we've done on the field for the past 7 years... literally everything, has come off the back of that man

Go watch the 2023 semi win at home against the Raiders, you can't say it's all KP. A huge chunk of us winning that game is Gamblor and Dom.

 

[TooheysNew]

Schills can play either flank with ease:

I dunno about with ease.

 

[Apey]

Pongas had a dud 2025 the first two games aside but saying memories are short in here is an understatement. Same people were no doubt talking him up as one of the best players in the game pre-season.

Criticising his 2024 season is a laugh, revisionist history. Was one of the best players in the game, again, after being one of the best in 2023.

There's no disagreement hes not delivering so far in 2025. I'm keen to see how he goes in 2026 in particular with two first grade standard halves (although I think D.Brown is overrated he's still 20x better than the Cog). It'll be the first time since 2023 he's had that.

 

[Apey]

A player who has never had a consistently good season, let alone make us a consistently good side.

Name a $1M+ player who has done that on his own?

 

[HarVeeGee]

We're very easily impressed sometimes. If Penriths halfback could tackle we might not be having this conversation at all.

Take that Penrith game out, fine. Lucas has 11 tries in 34 games, a terrific strike rate for a back rower, and consistently pumps out over 130 metres and 40 tackles. He breaks tackles. He saves tries. He's doing it all in a side which has been at best average, and often terrible. He's a sensational footballer, elite in two positions, and there's a real case that he's the best edge forward in the NRL right now.

But sure, I didn't even notice he was good until the Penrith game, I guess because I'm a moron.

lol, yes ok. Are you measuring a players quality and value over periods of weeks, or months and years? Everything good we've done on the field for the past 7 years... literally everything, has come off the back of that man. I'll cop consistency issues and a lot of other criticisms of him, but there's 16 other teams in the comp that would burn their rosters to the ground to have him too, and 2 more coming in that would also choose to build their entire existance around him in a heartbeat.

He's brought us more joy than any other player at least since Aku, potentially since Joey.

And I'm not even saying your broader points that Kalyn has a question mark over him right now aren't valid, but you don't have to stretch this far to make the point imo. The argument stands on its feet based purely on whether you can make Sharpe and Ponga work in the same team, and whether the team balance is better without Kalyn.

There's no difference in our W/L ratio with and without Kalyn. You can point to whatever you like with this, but there's no other player of his stature in the game where the impact of him actually playing or not is this negligible.

I just straight up do not accept "everything good we've done... has come off the back of that man". I just think that's a fundamental misattribution and a big part of our problem as a club. Even going back to last year when we beat the Dolphins 14-6 and set up both tries, and the narrative was "all their attack is Ponga"... that's an incredible team performance to hold the Dolphins to 6 that the team as a whole gets zero credit for, though, which is f**ked up. The 6 is why we won, not the 14.

 

[perverse]

Take that Penrith game out, fine. Lucas has 11 tries in 34 games, a terrific strike rate for a back rower, and consistently pumps out over 130 metres and 40 tackles. He breaks tackles. He saves tries. He's doing it all in a side which has been at best average, and often terrible. He's a sensational footballer, elite in two positions, and there's a real case that he's the best edge forward in the NRL right now.

But sure, I didn't even notice he was good until the Penrith game, I guess because I'm a moron.


There's no difference in our W/L ratio with and without Kalyn. You can point to whatever you like with this, but there's no other player of his stature in the game where the impact of him actually playing or not is this negligible.

I just straight up do not accept "everything good we've done... has come off the back of that man". I just think that's a fundamental misattribution and a big part of our problem as a club. Even going back to last year when we beat the Dolphins 14-6 and set up both tries, and the narrative was "all their attack is Ponga"... that's an incredible team performance to hold the Dolphins to 6 that the team as a whole gets zero credit for, though, which is f**ked up. The 6 is why we won, not the 14.

Ok well there's clearly no convincing you that he's a world class player. If you get your way I hope he proves that in another team.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Name a $1M+ player who has done that on his own?

He hasn't missed that many games, but the with/without split for Daly Cherry-Evans is about 53%/33%.

Kalyn's is 44%/43%.

 

[slotmachine]

KP might very well be an excellent player for a different team, he'll probably brain it tonight when surrounded by 16 other rep players.

That doesn't mean he's automatically a great fit at the knights in their current position considering who they have signed long term, especially when they seem to churn out pure fullbacks on a production line.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Ok well there's clearly no convincing you that he's a world class player. If you get your way I hope he proves that in another team.

I've never denied he's a massive talent. Slots put it best:

In a vacuum if you minus KP and replace him with no one, sure, definitely worse.

If Sharpe is playing fullback you don't lose *that* much. Purely from a speed of play and intent perspective it's an upgrade.

Then if the stars align and you take KPs $1.5m and spend 750k on a halfback (who doesn't even need to be that good, but preferably with a huge boot), 750k on a prop and play Brown at 6 (where he should be) you can't convince me we are not a better side.

KP might very well be an excellent player for a different team, he'll probably brain it tonight when surrounded by 16 other rep players.

That doesn't mean he's automatically a great fit at the knights in their current position considering who they have signed long term, especially when they seem to churn out pure fullbacks on a production line.

People talk about Kalyn like footy is basketball, where just having Luka Doncic gives you a puncher's chance at winning the comp despite the pretty massive holes in his game - just put the right players around him to cover his weaknesses, and off you go. In rugby league, cohesion matters more than in most sports. The way one player performs can be very contingent on his teammates. It matters that Fletcher Sharpe and Dylan Brown are round pegs for round holes, and Kalyn is a bit of a square peg.

lol, yes ok. Are you measuring a players quality and value over periods of weeks, or months and years? Everything good we've done on the field for the past 7 years... literally everything, has come off the back of that man. I'll cop consistency issues and a lot of other criticisms of him, but there's 16 other teams in the comp that would burn their rosters to the ground to have him too, and 2 more coming in that would also choose to build their entire existance around him in a heartbeat.

1. I don't think there are more than 5 clubs who'd move the deckchairs much at all to bring him in.
2. If you're right, that smells like opportunity to me! Cleary for Ponga, who says no?

 

[Apey]

He hasn't missed that many games, but the with/without split for Daly Cherry-Evans is about 53%/33%.

Kalyn's is 44%/43%.

Sure, but who is our Tommy Turbo then?

Manly top 8 finishes are 4 from the last 10 seasons.

Ponga hasn't had anyone remotely close to him in ability to work with his time here. Manly probably aren't paying blokes like Hastings 800k or KPP 750k, though.

 

[perverse]

2. If you're right, that smells like opportunity to me! Cleary for Ponga, who says no?

I don't really see the point in continuing to talk about it if we have to strawman each other to make our points. Clearly a team wouldn't destablize their roster to that extent to trade like-for-like talent wise. If you choose to nitpick my words literally rather than engaging with the crux of the argument then we're wasting our time. You wouldn't use real matches and petrol to "burn the roster" to the ground either mate.

We've gone from talking about whether Kalyn is a valuable asset to talking about whether he's a good fit. I would say stick to the good fit side of the conversation. He's obviously a huge asset. I would suggest reading less statistics and winrates with or without him and go back and watch the footy he's produced for us when he and the team have been in a good place. There's many factors both in and out of his control that have contributed to the inconsistency over the years - and we all know that if we're being honest about it and not just using it as a lever to back up our opinions. We were all there for the ride.

I guess ultimately I'm just a bit sad that people are willing to chuck the bloke in the bin so readily. It is what it is I guess. I'm not there yet, but I understand the issues and the position.