Australia won't win 2022 WC

[Iamback]

Cleary started playing RL in Auckland.
Luai played for the junior kiwis. Both are eligible for NZ.

There would be several players eligible for multiple nations. I'd be fine if either or both wanted to play State of Origin and NZ.

 

[Iamback]

If they wanted to play for them, which they don't.

Cleary could also play for Croatia too. Doesn't make him any less eligible to play for NSW

 

[Perth Red]

Money is the reason there aren't more tier 1 sides. Origin has nothing to do with it

Then why cant NZ or England nominated players play origin? This tier 1, tier 2 rubbish is just BS to keep the talent with Australia. Its a false construct that restricts players wages and gives the Kangaroos a leg up. No reason Ponga shouldn't be able to play for NZ, or Cleary for that matter if he wants to. Only negative thing it might do is see origin players nominate for NZ rather than a PI.

 

[Bobby DIGital]

If they wanted to play for them, which they don't.

That's not the point. It was pointed out that Cleary has played all his junior footy in Penrith. That's not actually true.

Luai actually did want to play for NZ when picked for the JKs. Obviously Origin has changed that.

 

[Iamback]

Then why cant NZ or England nominated players play origin? This tier 1, tier 2 rubbish is just BS to keep the talent with Australia.

How many are here before 13?
Most NZ or England eligible players come over in their late teens. hence don't qualify according to the rules

From the Origin series

To'o
Tupou
Staggs
Luai
Crichton
Talakai

Have said they are playing for the islands

Api
Paulo
Papalli
Tino
Nanai
Taulagi

Are expected to follow.

So how is Origin keeping guys in the Australian jersey again?

 

[Bobby DIGital]

Then why cant NZ or England nominated players play origin? This tier 1, tier 2 rubbish is just BS to keep the talent with Australia.

True. The system is designed to intentionally weaken NZ especially. It's a pity for Aus that it won't work.

 

[Iamback]

That's not the point. It was pointed out that Cleary has played all his junior footy in Penrith. That's not actually true.

Luai actually did want to play for NZ when picked for the JKs. Obviously Origin has changed that.

Luai was born in Australia, Played for Samoa in 2017...Yet is a kiwi?

He qualifies via a parent but if he doesn't feel like a kiwi it is Origin's fault?

 

[Iamback]

True. The system is designed to intentionally weaken NZ especially. It's a pity for Aus that it won't work.

The system rewards players that have graduated through the relevant State structures. It is bragging rights for the relevant states nothing more

 

[Stinkfinger]

Then why cant NZ or England nominated players play origin? This tier 1, tier 2 rubbish is just BS to keep the talent with Australia. Its a false construct that restricts players wages and gives the Kangaroos a leg up. No reason Ponga shouldn't be able to play for NZ, or Cleary for that matter if he wants to. Only negative thing it might do is see origin players nominate for NZ rather than a PI.

If they meet the criteria in all other respects, no reason why not.

 

[Iamback]

If they meet the criteria in all other respects, no reason why not.

Yep. No different then the Australian born players who have played for NZ in the past.

13 is a good age. Hopefully that doesn't get raised

 

[Matua]

Luai was born in Australia, Played for Samoa in 2017...Yet is a kiwi?

He qualifies via a parent but if he doesn't feel like a kiwi it is Origin's fault?

No, see above from Bobby D, if he wants to play Origin he can't play for the Kiwis even if that's his first choice international team, but he can play for Samoa even if they're his second choice.

How many are here before 13?
Most NZ or England eligible players come over in their late teens. hence don't qualify according to the rules

In your posting in this thread you've been very supportive of Island players born in Aus representing their nation of heritage. The same applies for NZ. There are lots of kids in Oz with NZ heritage, way more than any of the islands. You seem fine with Luai being Samoan, but less so with him being a NZer despite the fact he's Maori.

So how is Origin keeping guys in the Australian jersey again?

This isn't the way it is, it's keeping guys out of the Kiwi jersey that is the main benefit from the Origin rules for Oz.

 

[jim_57]

How many are here before 13?
Most NZ or England eligible players come over in their late teens. hence don't qualify according to the rules

From the Origin series

To'o
Tupou
Staggs
Luai
Crichton
Talakai

Have said they are playing for the islands

Api
Paulo
Papalli
Tino
Nanai
Taulagi

Are expected to follow.

So how is Origin keeping guys in the Australian jersey again?

Fair chance a few if not most of Papalii, Ponga, Nanai, Taulagi, Paulo, Luai, Kaufusi etc would choose NZ if it was a straight choice and not affected by Origin. Plenty of examples in the past too, Tamou, Carrol & Thorn come straight to mind.

It locks players to Australia and out of their traditional biggest rivals but not any other nation which doesn’t really make any sense. NZ are obviously most affected, England not so much but someone like Sam Walker should be able to play for Queensland and England if that was his choice.

 

[Iamback]

No, see above from Bobby D, if he wants to play Origin he can't play for the Kiwis even if that's his first choice international team, but he can play for Samoa even if they're his second choice.


In your posting in this thread you've been very supportive of Island players born in Aus representing their nation of heritage. The same applies for NZ. There are lots of kids in Oz with NZ heritage, way more than any of the islands. You seem fine with Luai being Samoan, but less so with him being a NZer despite the fact he's Maori.


This isn't the way it is, it's keeping guys out of the Kiwi jersey that is the main benefit from the Origin rules for Oz.

Again who says it is his 1st choice team? I haven't seen anything from him to say it is the case. He was behind the 2 State of Origin halves at club level. Playing Origin was way off his way of thinking

Being eligible for a country doesn't mean the player wants too. I literally said a few posts up that I am fine with NZ playing for NSW if they are eligible.

There has been plenty of guys from Australia play for NZ. Some even illegally have done so. Even the last World Cup Fonua-Blake, Gerard Beale and Jason Nightingale all played for NZ. Despite being Australian born so it goes both ways and I am fine with the player doing what they feel is best for them

 

[Perth Red]

How many are here before 13?
Most NZ or England eligible players come over in their late teens. hence don't qualify according to the rules

From the Origin series

To'o
Tupou
Staggs
Luai
Crichton
Talakai

Have said they are playing for the islands

Api
Paulo
Papalli
Tino
Nanai
Taulagi

Are expected to follow.

So how is Origin keeping guys in the Australian jersey again?

It doesn't matter if its 1 or 100, its the rule that's the issue and why it exists.

 

[Perth Red]

Again who says it is his 1st choice team? I haven't seen anything from him to say it is the case. He was behind the 2 State of Origin halves at club level. Playing Origin was way off his way of thinking

Being eligible for a country doesn't mean the player wants too. I literally said a few posts up that I am fine with NZ playing for NSW if they are eligible.

There has been plenty of guys from Australia play for NZ. Some even illegally have done so. Even the last World Cup Fonua-Blake, Gerard Beale and Jason Nightingale all played for NZ. Despite being Australian born so it goes both ways and I am fine with the player doing what they feel is best for them

you're totally missing the point! Its the fact he doesn't have a choice that is the issue, not which choice he would make.

Then what are you arguing for? If you agree the origin rule is stupid and any origin player should be able to play for any country they are eligible for then what exactly are you arguing against here??

 

[Iamback]

Fair chance a few if not most of Papalii, Ponga, Nanai, Taulagi, Paulo, Luai, Kaufusi etc would choose NZ if it was a straight choice and not affected by Origin. Plenty of examples in the past too, Tamou, Carrol & Thorn come straight to mind.

It locks players to Australia and out of their traditional biggest rivals but not any other nation which doesn’t really make any sense. NZ are obviously most affected, England not so much but someone like Sam Walker should be able to play for Queensland and England if that was his choice.

On the players. Hard to say what they would choose Ponga is Australian Born.
Paulo and Papalli have been in Australia most of their lives.

so nothing to say they would choose NZ if given the option especially with all their schooling in Australia.

I think it is money is more of a motivation then anything. The World Cup alone Australian players get $50k if they win. Someone like Samoa get $1300.

Again what link does Sam Walker have to England? He was born there granted but only lived there for 6 months

Both his parents are born and Bred Australian, He has lived here since he was 6 months old...Likely has no interest in playing for England. Even though he is eligible

 

[Iamback]

It doesn't matter if its 1 or 100, its the rule that's the issue and why it exists.

Come on. You want to be a f**ken sook....Atleast get your facts straight

 

[Iamback]

you're totally missing the point! Its the fact he doesn't have a choice that is the issue, not which choice he would make.

Then what are you arguing for? If you agree the origin rule is stupid and any origin player should be able to play for any country they are eligible for then what exactly are you arguing against here??

I agree with needing to play in either state before 13.
I don't agree that players are missing out on playing for the country they want as a result

 

[Matua]

Again who says it is his 1st choice team? I haven't seen anything from him to say it is the case. He was behind the 2 State of Origin halves at club level. Playing Origin was way off his way of thinking

I think Luai is trying to play for everyone. I didn't say it was his first choice team, I said that option wasn't available to him. It's not like he has no attachment to NZ, he captained the Junior Kiwis.

Being eligible for a country doesn't mean the player wants too. I literally said a few posts up that I am fine with NZ playing for NSW if they are eligible.

There has been plenty of guys from Australia play for NZ. Some even illegally have done so. Even the last World Cup Fonua-Blake, Gerard Beale and Jason Nightingale all played for NZ. Despite being Australian born so it goes both ways and I am fine with the player doing what they feel is best for them

Sorry, missed that. But the rest of your posting in this thread has been very pro PI heritage until that post.

 

[Perth Red]

Come on. You want to be a f**ken sook....Atleast get your facts straight

wtf you on about? If a player is eligible to play origin, great let him play origin. If same player is eligible to represent a country, be it tier 1, 2 or 16 then great let them represent whoever they are eligible for. The rules at the moment dont allow for that and should be changed. There is zero legit reason an origin player shouldn't play for NZ or England if they are eligible other than a dumb ass rule designed to weaken other tier 1 nations for the benefit of the Kangaroos.

I agree with needing to play in either state before 13.
I don't agree that players are missing out on playing for the country they want as a result

You dont know this, how can you? They currently don't have the option so you have no idea if they would choose to play for NZ or England over Australia or a PI nation.