Australia won't win 2022 WC

[ATOWN2]

Well Samoa got smashed by England. God help Samoa against the Aussies!

 

[Bobby DIGital]

3 players with more ticker....yes even Sowie

Both Shaun Johnson and Kieran Foran would've walked into the NSW side in 2013-2015. Sure Johnson hasn't been the same since he done his achilles, but any NZ player who's played the amount of tests he has would've made the NSW squad at some stage in the last 16 years. Origin is a weak contest.

 

[ATOWN2]

Samoa are Englands sons now

 

[RL The greatest game]

Well Samoa got smashed by England. God help Samoa against the Aussies!

Phil "Rent a quote" Gould got this badly wrong

 

[Iamback]

Harry Grant off the bench, Showing why Australia is going to be very hard to beat.

NZ need to find a kicking game from dummy half

 

[Smug Panther]

Both Shaun Johnson and Kieran Foran would've walked into the NSW side in 2013-2015. Sure Johnson hasn't been the same since he done his achilles, but any NZ player who's played the amount of tests he has would've made the NSW squad at some stage in the last 16 years. Origin is a weak contest.

SJ has never been a winner. He's the biggest fraud in the last 20 years

 

[taste2taste]

Phil "Rent a quote" Gould got this badly wrong
View attachment 67452

I'm sure Gus has put his hand up and admitted he was wrong? He's very good at owning his mistakes lol

 

[footy75]

I'm sure Gus has put his hand up and admitted he was wrong? He's very good at owning his mistakes lol

lol

 

[Maximus]

I'm sure Gus has put his hand up and admitted he was wrong? He's very good at owning his mistakes lol

To be fair, looks like he retweeted every single person who gave him shit

 

[Captain Apollo]

Criticism of World Cup competitiveness misses the point

There has been a lot of social media interaction regarding the international credibility of the Rugby League World Cup, but the misguided criticism comes from those who will never be fans of the great game anyway.

www.espn.com.au

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The whole 'WC isn't competitive' is a very Australian centric view. Do you think England and NZ aren't enjoying the tune up matches to have a crack at the Kangaroos title?

What about Tongan, Samoan, Fijian and PNG players and fans? Do you think they are feeling the same way? They are probably thoroughly enjoying the challenge ahead of them knowing they have very talented sides that are increasingly competitive on the world stage.

There's no way in the world you can look at this WC as a genuine fan of any nation other than Australia and say that it's a sham or it's uncompetitive.

 

[The Great Dane]

The only reason that Australia, or New Zealand for that matter, might not win this World Cup is because they're being actively undermined by farcical eligibility rules.

In a short sighted attempt to try and take a short cut to making the international product more competitive on the field and, if we're being honest, try and make it look like the sport is being played in more nations than it actually is by pulling the wool over casuals eyes with heritage players, the IRL have not only effectively destroyed any incentive there was to invest in the sport on the ground in new countries, which is a terrible outcome for all involved, but have also made the sport an even bigger laughing stock than it already was by incentivising nations to field sides without a single player whom is actually from the nation they are representing.

The thing that's probably most hilarious about it is that it hasn't even worked! Aside from Tonga (which isn't sustainable) none of the minnow nations have really made any significant improvement on the field, and this world cup has probably been the least competitive since about 2000, so if anything the sport it going backwards in that regard.

The sad thing is that it's really typical of the crabs in a bucket mentality of RL institutions, and perfectly represents why this sport has universally failed to live up to it's potential throughout it's existence. It's demoralising to be honest.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The only reason that Australia, or New Zealand for that matter, might not win this World Cup is because they're being actively undermined by farcical eligibility rules.

In a short sighted attempt to try and take a short cut to making the international product more competitive on the field and, if we're being honest, try and make it look like the sport is being played in more nations than it actually is by pulling the wool over casuals eyes with heritage players

I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but yet again you are severely wrong.

Jamaica, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, PNG, Fiji, Scotland, Cook Islands, Wales, Ireland, Samoa, Tonga, France and of course Aus, NZ and England all have domestic Rugby League competitions, with Scotland being the only questionable one.

Jamaica, Lebanon, Greece, Italy, Wales, France, PNG, Fiji, Ireland, Aus, NZ and England all have players in their squads that are as you put it 'from the nation they are representing' in just about all of those examples many players from the squad. And just like Samoa and Tonga (amongst other established RU nations) in Union, Samoa, Tonga and the Cook Islands rely heavily on their diaspora in Australia and New Zealand.

Apart from the above, what would you like Lebanon and Greece etc to do while they develop their domestic leagues to greater strengths? Just say no to Moses and Ilias? That makes a heap of sense.

You are probably too ignorant to know this but Hazem El Mazri and a bunch of Aussie-Lebanese players in 2000 inspired the launch of the domestic Lebanese competition and the game there is now in the school and University system with the cedars making the news back in Lebanon when they win games and make it out of their group at the RLWC.

 

[The Great Dane]

I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but yet again you are severely wrong.

You know you actually have to address the argument that a person is actually making to prove them 'wrong'...

All you've done is created a handful of strawmen and presented them as my positions, but I'll bite on a few points anyway.

Jamaica, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, PNG, Fiji, Scotland, Cook Islands, Wales, Ireland, Samoa, Tonga, France and of course Aus, NZ and England all have domestic Rugby League competitions, with Scotland being the only questionable one.

With the exceptions of Australia, England, PNG, arguably France, and some of the nations newer to the sport, most of those nations have totally failed to develop their domestic competitions beyond tiny park football competitions despite the sport having been played in those nations for decades. As a general rule their domestic comps are also incredibly unstable, and info on the net about them is often extremely out of date.

You don't improve those circumstances by disincentivizing investment into domestic competition and development by making it easier for federations to source their players from the Australian and English development systems.

Take RU in Japan as a singular example; they've seen massive growth domestically over the last 30ish years, none of that would have happened if the Japanese RU had the power to build a competitive team out of players from other nations. The Brave Blossoms may have been more competitive that way, hell they might have even won some major competitions by now, but it wouldn't have benefited RU on the ground in Japan like the massive investment they've made to improve their standings over the last 30 years has.

Before you say it, obviously your average RL doesn't have access to resources anything near what Japanese RU had and has, but that's just an argument about the scale of what is realistically achievable in each nations individual case.

Jamaica, Lebanon, Greece, Italy, Wales, France, PNG, Fiji, Ireland, Aus, NZ and England all have players in their squads that are as you put it 'from the nation they are representing' in just about all of those examples many players from the squad. And just like Samoa and Tonga (amongst other established RU nations) in Union, Samoa, Tonga and the Cook Islands rely heavily on their diaspora in Australia and New Zealand.

You're seriously going to stoop to that leave of pedantry?

For most teams the percentage of domestic players and players born in the nation they are representing is laughable, and it's astounding that you'd to pretend otherwise.

Apart from the above, what would you like Lebanon and Greece etc to do while they develop their domestic leagues to greater strengths? Just say no to Moses and Ilias? That makes a heap of sense.

You will never convince me that it's better for RL in those nations to give a jersey to Australians/Kiwis/Englishmen whom are only interested because didn't make their national side over giving it to local players.

Among other things, it gives domestic players a goal to achieve, the experience they gain from it is invaluable, and it stops the resource suck you see in some nations where they are overcommitting resources to match payments to convince foreign players to represent them.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You know you actually have to address the argument that a person is actually making to prove them 'wrong'...

All you've done is created a handful of strawmen and presented them as my positions, but I'll bite on a few points anyway.

With the exceptions of Australia, England, PNG, arguably France, and some of the nations newer to the sport, most of those nations have totally failed to develop their domestic competitions beyond tiny park football competitions despite the sport having been played in those nations for decades. As a general rule their domestic comps are also incredibly unstable, and info on the net about them is often extremely out of date.

You don't improve those circumstances by disincentivizing investment into domestic competition and development by making it easier for federations to source their players from the Australian and English development systems.

Take RU in Japan as a singular example; they've seen massive growth domestically over the last 30ish years, none of that would have happened if the Japanese RU had the power to build a competitive team out of players from other nations. The Brave Blossoms may have been more competitive that way, hell they might have even won some major competitions by now, but it wouldn't have benefited RU on the ground in Japan like the massive investment they've made to improve their standings over the last 30 years has.

Before you say it, obviously your average RL doesn't have access to resources anything near what Japanese RU had and has, but that's just an argument about the scale of what is realistically achievable in each nations individual case.

You're seriously going to stoop to that leave of pedantry?

For most teams the percentage of domestic players and players born in the nation they are representing is laughable, and it's astounding that you'd to pretend otherwise.

You will never convince me that it's better for RL in those nations to give a jersey to Australians/Kiwis/Englishmen whom are only interested because didn't make their national side over giving it to local players.

Among other things, it gives domestic players a goal to achieve, the experience they gain from it is invaluable, and it stops the resource suck you see in some nations where they are overcommitting resources to match payments to convince foreign players to represent them.

Oh you actually replied this time. Usually when I call you out on your terrible arguments you just stop replying to save yourself the embarrassment.

Ok, to your points...

You were the one that said that Rugby League was not being played in the countries represented. I showed you that it was. Your opinion of the size of that competition is irrelevant. RL is played in those countries by people from those countries so don't try and twist out of what you said.

In terms of countries like Jamaica, Greece (RL illegal until this year), Italy, Lebanon, the game is a decade or two old, not sure how much development you want to see from scratch in 10 or 20 years. A bit harsh considering Lebanon and Jamaica particularly are in the school systems now.

Glad you brought up the Japanese situation in Union. Do you have anything to say about the 16 players in their squad that are not Japanese? I didn't think so. This is rife in Union, even surprisingly amongst established nations like Scotland, Wales, Italy, Samoa and Tonga just to name a few. Again, you don't mention this.

On heritage representation in RL, are you going to tell Taumalolo he's not Tongan? Are you going to tell Adam Doueihi, who speaks Lebanese-Arabic that he isn't Lebanese?

Are we going to ignore that El Mazri and co kicked started domestic activity in Lebanon back at the 2000 WC? Just remember, because the comp is not up to your satisfaction in a mere 20 years, without these players doing it for their heritage to kick-start a future back in the original country, the game wouldn't exist at all there.

And yes, if Moses is putting his hand up for Lebanon and you were the coach, you would 100% pick him every time, don't even try and say you wouldn't. Moses, Doueihi and Mansour provide valuable experience to the Lebanese based players in the squad who then take that experience back to the Lebanese domestic comp to improve it. It is actually a smart thing to do. The other thing that Moses and co do is make the side competitive, which makes news back in Lebanon, which boosts the profile of the game. Again, a smart thing to do. How else do you think they built a senior comp and got into the University system in two decades with virtually zero resources?

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

This is the squad for the All Blacks Japanese test (result 38-31 to ABs).

Japan: Brave Blossoms make three changes for All Blacks Test

Japan head coach Jamie Joseph has named a competitive side for their Autumn Nations Series international against New Zealand in Tokyo on Saturday.

www.planetrugby.com

Appears to me mostly actual dinkum Japanese, with a few qualifying by residence.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

This is the squad for the All Blacks Japanese test (result 38-31 to ABs).

Japan: Brave Blossoms make three changes for All Blacks Test

Japan head coach Jamie Joseph has named a competitive side for their Autumn Nations Series international against New Zealand in Tokyo on Saturday.

www.planetrugby.com

Appears to me mostly actual dinkum Japanese, with a few qualifying by residence.

You are kidding right?

Kotaro Matsushima - South African
Dylan Riley - Australian
Siosaia Fifita - Tongan
Tevita Tatafu - Tongan
Michael Leitch - New Zealander
Jack Cornelsen - Australian
Warner Dearns - New Zealander
Jiwon Gu - Korean
Craig Millar - New Zealander
Faulua Makisi - Tongan
Seungsin Lee - Korean
Gerhard van den Heever - South African

There are four more in the extended squad. If there were a Rugby League team taking it to the Kangaroos with a line-up like that, Union fans would be lining up to take the piss out of it.

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

Lol. Matsushima is obviously not South African. I'm not too fussed about Koreans in Japan playing for Japan. I assume they are eligible, and have probably been living there for a fair while. All the other non Japanese born players participate in the Japanese domestic competition and are therefore eligible to represent Japan. As far as I can tell there is not a single player selected on the basis of heritage. Unlike the recent Kiwis league sides for example. Clearly Japanese rugby is both sustainable and successful. As rugby grows in Japan the national side will become dominated by Japanese born players. So basically I'm not sure what your point is here?

 

[England87]

No, they wouldn't.

1. Matsushima is Japanese

2. Gu & Lee are Japanese from Korean descent.

3. All of those Tongans guys grew up and have been in Japanese systems since high school.

4. The rest are on residency grounds. I believe Leitch and Miller are citizens.

You're not the fizziest drink in the fridge but do better mate instead of racial assumptions based on anglo/pacifika names.

 

[England87]

Lol. Matsushima is obviously not South African. I'm not too fussed about Koreans in Japan playing for Japan. I assume they are eligible, and have probably been living there for a fair while. All the other non Japanese born players participate in the Japanese domestic competition and are therefore eligible to represent Japan. As far as I can tell there is not a single player selected on the basis of heritage. Unlike the recent Kiwis league sides for example. Clearly Japanese rugby is both sustainable and successful. As rugby grows in Japan the national side will become dominated by Japanese born players. So basically I'm not sure what your point is here?

nailed it.