Australia won't win 2022 WC

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. Matsushima is obviously not South African. I'm not too fussed about Koreans in Japan playing for Japan. I assume they are eligible, and have probably been living there for a fair while. All the other non Japanese born players participate in the Japanese domestic competition and are therefore eligible to represent Japan. As far as I can tell there is not a single player selected on the basis of heritage. Unlike the recent Kiwis league sides for example. Clearly Japanese rugby is both sustainable and successful. As rugby grows in Japan the national side will become dominated by Japanese born players. So basically I'm not sure what your point is here?

Yes mate, whether you like it or not Matsushima was born in Pretoria to a Japanese mother and learnt his RU in South Africa.

Just because Korea doesn't have a team good enough, doesn't mean you can just pinch their best players for Japan. Again, if this was a Japanese league team it would be called a farce by RU types.

Mate as much as you don't want to admit it, the side is stacked with non Japanese players as I pointed out to you

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No, they wouldn't.

1. Matsushima is Japanese

2. Gu & Lee are Japanese from Korean descent.

3. All of those Tongans guys grew up and have been in Japanese systems since high school.

4. The rest are on residency grounds. I believe Leitch and Miller are citizens.

You're not the fizziest drink in the fridge but do better mate instead of racial assumptions based on anglo/pacifika names.

1. No he is South African with a Japanese mother and learnt his RU in South Africa

2. They are Korean... not Japanese

3. They are Tongan, not Japanese

4. Not Japanese

No assumptions, go check where they were born and grew up. The point is, not a team full of Japanese RU players as claimed by another poster

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Appears to me mostly actual dinkum Japanese

I'm not too fussed about Koreans in Japan playing for Japan. I assume they are eligible, and have probably been living there for a fair while.

All the other non Japanese born players participate in the Japanese domestic competition As rugby grows in Japan the national side will become dominated by Japanese born players.

Isn't the team already filled with actual dinkum Japanese? Or has that shifted to "it will be" now that I've shown you the reality?

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

What are you blathering on about? Matsushima is Japanese. He grew up in Japan. He no doubt speaks fluent Japanese. He is "biracial". Like Japanese tennis player Naomi Osaka. The KIwis and Kangaroos are also filled with players of different racial backgrounds. You do appear to have an odd racial obsession. You also have absolutely no coherent point to make. Rugby is a popular sport in Japan. It has good crowds and considerable worldwide television coverage. You can actually watch games from Japan's premier rugby competition on Aus and NZ sports channels. I'm yet to see any coverage of the Lebanese or Jamaican domestic rugby league competition on the telly. Japan recently took the ABs close, and have beaten South Africa in the rugby world cup tournament. There is no comparison with Lebanese or Jamaican rugby league.

​

 

[titoelcolombiano]

What are you blathering on about? Matsushima is Japanese. He grew up in Japan. He no doubt speaks fluent Japanese. He is "biracial". Like Japanese tennis player Naomi Osaka. The KIwis and Kangaroos are also filled with players of different racial backgrounds. You do appear to have an odd racial obsession. You also have absolutely no coherent point to make. Rugby is a popular sport in Japan. It has good crowds and considerable worldwide television coverage. You can actually watch games from Japan's premier rugby competition on Aus and NZ sports channels. I'm yet to see any coverage of the Lebanese or Jamaican domestic rugby league competition on the telly. Japan recently took the ABs close, and have beaten South Africa in the rugby world cup tournament. There is no comparison with Lebanese or Jamaican rugby league.

​

Born in South Africa, learnt his Rugby in South Africa. And he is just one of many in the squad that aren't Japanese despite your claims that they are mostly ''actual dinkum Japanese''

 

[Matua]

1. No he is South African with a Japanese mother and learnt his RU in South Africa

2. They are Korean... not Japanese

3. They are Tongan, not Japanese

4. Not Japanese

No assumptions, go check where they were born and grew up. The point is, not a team full of Japanese RU players as claimed by another poster

Going by this way of thinking the Samoan and Tongan teams in this RLWC aren't teams full Samoan or Tongan players aside from the odd player like Hurrell. You're ignoring the eligibility rules for both sports to try make your point.

As for 4, those players actually did a big chunk of their growing up in Japan. Similar to a guy like Tamou who represented Oz.

 

[England87]

The argument that Matsushima is somehow not Japanese or is as Japanese as James Tedesco is Italian or whatever your point is, is so fkn cringe.

He grew up in both countries went to school in both countries. Has a Japanese passport. Japanese is his first language.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The argument that Matsushima is somehow not Japanese or is as Japanese as James Tedesco is Italian or whatever your point is, is so fkn cringe.

He grew up in both countries went to school in both countries. Has a Japanese passport. Japanese is his first language.

Don't try and weasel out of your original comments now. A team of largely non-Japanese players played well against the All Blacks, not a team of mostly Japanese as you claimed.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Going by this way of thinking the Samoan and Tongan teams in this RLWC aren't teams full Samoan or Tongan players aside from the odd player like Hurrell. You're ignoring the eligibility rules for both sports to try make your point.

As for 4, those players actually did a big chunk of their growing up in Japan. Similar to a guy like Tamou who represented Oz.

Samoans and Tongans playing for Samoa and Tonga by heritage (in both codes) is very different to Japan being made up of a large chunk of Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans Tongans and a few other nations sprinkled in.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Seems like the Union crowd get upset when you point out the fact that their international teams aren't as legit as they make out to be.

 

[Matua]

Samoans and Tongans playing for Samoa and Tonga by heritage (in both codes) is very different to Japan being made up of a large chunk of Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans Tongans and a few other nations sprinkled in.

No it's not, eligibility is eligibility regardless. Leitch has lived in Japan longer than 99% of the Samoan and Tongan players in the RLWC have lived in the actual islands themselves.

 

[England87]

Don't try and weasel out of your original comments now. A team of largely non-Japanese players played well against the All Blacks, not a team of mostly Japanese as you claimed.

Again mate, most of those Tongan-born lads have been in the Japanese system since high school, Matsushima is Japanese. Full stop. A few of the other anglo last-name boys are mostly naturalized citizens. The Koreans are Korean-Japanese.

It's called migration and it's the way of the world.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Again mate, most of those Tongan-born lads have been in the Japanese system since high school, Matsushima is Japanese. Full stop. A few of the other anglo last-name boys are mostly naturalized citizens. The Koreans are Korean-Japanese.

It's called migration and it's the way of the world.

Again, to your original point, Tongans, Kiwis, Aussies and South Africans aren't Japanese and learning to play Rugby in Tonga and then moving to Japan in high-school doesn't constitute being Japanese either.

You can say it all you like mate but Matsushima was born and raised in Pretoria, South Africa to a Japanese mother.

I'm not arguing that any of these guys shouldn't play for Japan, I'm just saying that your original point about them all being Japanese is incorrect, and my secondary point is that if this were a successful RL team with that many foreigners in it, the hypocritical union types would be taking the piss.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No it's not, eligibility is eligibility regardless. Leitch has lived in Japan longer than 99% of the Samoan and Tongan players in the RLWC have lived in the actual islands themselves.

Leitch is not Japanese mate, not by blood, not by heritage, nothing, not produced by Japanese Rugby, for no other reason than he lived there for long enough. I eat sushi regularly, maybe I can get a run.

Luai (for example) was born in Sydney to a Samoan family and was raised in his culture. He is Samoan by blood and culture.

The Japanese Union team is a piss take.

 

[England87]

Going by your logic 99% of international teams in all sports would be seen as a piss-take.

I was born in Australia to Australian Anglo parents. I grew up in France, Germany, Australia, and the UK. I lived most of my late teens and adult life in the UK. I currently live in Australia. I am a British Citizen. Am I not British by your standards?

 

[The Great Dane]

What's happened in eligibility rules in RL (and increasingly in other sports as well) is that somewhere along the line nationality and ethnicity have become conflated.

These two concepts are not synonymous, and the conflation of the two is not going to end well for either sporting communities or society more broadly. It's also no surprise that you're seeing increased calls for purely ethnic teams, such as the Indigenous All Stars, to participate in the WC and other internationals, as a product of this conflation.

The suggestion that, e.g., Jarome Luai is not, or rather should not consider himself, Australian, despite the fact that he was born, educated, and raised here, stems exclusively from a bigoted world view that I thought our society had largely moved past, but seems to have raised it's ugly head again in the last decade.

I also find it incredibly cringy. It's really no different to the ocker bogan blokes whom go around saying they're Irish/Scottish/whatever, despite the fact that they've never set foot in the country and you'd have to go back generations to find an ancestor of theirs that had.

 

[Matua]

Leitch is not Japanese mate, not by blood, not by heritage, nothing, not produced by Japanese Rugby, for no other reason than he lived there for long enough. I eat sushi regularly, maybe I can get a run.

Luai (for example) was born in Sydney to a Samoan family and was raised in his culture. He is Samoan by blood and culture.

The Japanese Union team is a piss take.

Which is irrelevant to how eligibility works. You're having a shot at the Japanese team yet you're supporting teams that have players who have never been to the country they're playing for before representing them. Under the eligibility rules I don't have a problem with that, nor do I have a problem with Leitch representing Japan, a country he's lived in for 20 years and a culture he's been part of for 20 years.

On Luai I think he's only a grandparent selection for Samoa. His kid wont be eligible for Samoa under current eligibility rules.

 

[RedVee_8]

Which is irrelevant to how eligibility works. You're having a shot at the Japanese team yet you're supporting teams that have players who have never been to the country they're playing for before representing them. Under the eligibility rules I don't have a problem with that, nor do I have a problem with Leitch representing Japan, a country he's lived in for 20 years and a culture he's been part of for 20 years.

On Luai I think he's only a grandparent selection for Samoa. His kid wont be eligible for Samoa under current eligibility rules.

Unless they add a “father played for” clause

 

[taste2taste]

Let's just simplify eligibility so even the most simple minded can understand

If it walks like a Samoan, looks like a Samoan, talks like a Samoan .... lts a bloody Samoan.

Why is Luai considered less Samoan because he hasn't been there ? 100% Samoan bloodline that dates back thousands of years isn't Samoan enough ?? There are Samoan communities from Utah to Auckland that have never visited Samoa, I guess they are Kiwis and Yanks pretending to be Samoan?

The Samoan Rugby Union team has less than a 3rd of its players born in Samoa but that's OK because it's rugby ?

 

[Matua]

Unless they add a “father played for” clause

Yeah, which I think would be fine. It's very odd when a child can't play for the team their parents played for merely because of birth when they're allowing where your grandparents are born.

Why is Luai considered less Samoan because he hasn't been there ?

Is anyone actually arguing that?

The Samoan Rugby Union team has less than a 3rd of its players born in Samoa but that's OK because it's rugby ?

Is anyone actually arguing that too?