Backline 2019

[Old Timer]

He’s not a patch on 2015 Coote, YET (if at all).
As for ‘plenty of clubs’ the only one where he slots into #1 straight away is Dogs as watatank mentioned - Titans get a better net result with Brimsom at fullback (at best, Dufty has to compete), Cotric will be #1 for Raiders next year and no chance Dufty dislodges him, Holmes is still at Sharks next year (plus they have Moylan still), Hughes is a superior option at Melbourne (who also have Papenhuzyn) and Gutherson is light years ahead at Parra. So no club desperately needs him, there is a glut of high quality fullbacks at the moment and if he were to leave, at best he’d be competing for a spot. If attitude is his problem, it would be in his best interest to stay put and fix it. So looking at that, we potentially have the 15th or 16th best first choice fullback in the comp, indicating it’s an area we need to improve.

That being said - we do get a far better outcome by replacing the head coach and associated staff rather than turning over players simply because he can’t coach or develop them properly. A decent coach would likely be able to enhance Dufty’s core skills to a point that he heads up that list of fullbacks!

The 2015 Coote was 25 and maybe with good coaching Dufty gets there but there are no certainties.
You note that there are many FB's ahead of Dufty and that is in fact true of almost our entire squad save 4 or so players but the question is how many are available right now and how many would want to come here?
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a Millward power play involved with this as he had already anointed Field so how would supporters feel if Dufty is punted and Field takes over the FB role?
We have so many within our ranks that we don't know if we are getting everything out of them and that will remain the case for while ever we have the regime we have and the questions will continue to go round this forum without anyone being able to get a definitive answer.
Nice to see that the whipping post didn't remain vacant for very long although Hunt has also cast a shadow over it as well.

 

[Warabrook saint]

With all due respect, show me the other 14 fullbacks who are better than Dufty. I bet their showreels from this season don't eclipse this....




Agree 100 % re Coaching staff.

Our clueless ones have no idea

 

[possm]

If we are trying to win a premiership in the next 2 years the biggest change should be getting decent coaching staff....That's it in a nutshell.

Well, there were a lot of good options and we did not take any. We will never sign a good coach while our current structure is in place. Doust may have been able to convince the media and a large number at the Dragons that this new coaching/pathways/recruitment structure is the way forward but those that matter - experienced first grade coaches - think otherwise and so, no new top line coach on the horizon.

 

[BennyV]

With all due respect, show me the other 14 fullbacks who are better than Dufty. I bet their showreels from this season don't eclipse this....




Agree 100 % re Coaching staff.

Cool story. But anyone who understands the game knows that ability goes well beyond the highlight reel, which is not going to show deficiencies in his game. Hiding behind the highlights reel is a weak, weak argument getsmarty, I thought you’d have done better!

There are 14 other teams who would not parachute Dufty into first grade fullback spot, at best he’d compete for the spot in 3 teams. So at best, he’s around the 12th best fullback in the comp when you consider his all round game. Sure, that could improve but there’s no guarantees and posting his highlights reel as some justification that he’s a must keep is silliness.

 

[BennyV]

The 2015 Coote was 25 and maybe with good coaching Dufty gets there but there are no certainties.
You note that there are many FB's ahead of Dufty and that is in fact true of almost our entire squad save 4 or so players but the question is how many are available right now and how many would want to come here?
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a Millward power play involved with this as he had already anointed Field so how would supporters feel if Dufty is punted and Field takes over the FB role?
We have so many within our ranks that we don't know if we are getting everything out of them and that will remain the case for while ever we have the regime we have and the questions will continue to go round this forum without anyone being able to get a definitive answer.
Nice to see that the whipping post didn't remain vacant for very long although Hunt has also cast a shadow over it as well.

I’ve always said that Dufty could be a Barba or Coote type player - a vital cog in a premiership winning team, without necessarily being the superstar. But there’s also a chance he could be the next Nathan Gardner. He’s got a lot he needs to work on in both attack and defence and unfortunately, like Sele, Herbert and probably a whole lot of others, we wont know what he is capable of until we see him under a decent coach, which should be the #1 priority for us.
Punting Dufty for Field is an initial step backwards for a possible tiny step forwards. Not worth the risk IMO. In fact, even if we did land a top shelf fullback then punting Dufty at all would be crazy, he’d be a very good backup fullback.
As for whipping boy - meh, I find it hard to truly criticise any player while McGregor is at the helm. He has consistently failed to develop and maintain the most basic skills required for first grade. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t recognise deficiencies in players too.

 

[getsmarty]

Well, there were a lot of good options and we did not take any. We will never sign a good coach while our current structure is in place. Doust may have been able to convince the media and a large number at the Dragons that this new coaching/pathways/recruitment structure is the way forward but those that matter - experienced first grade coaches - think otherwise and so, no new top line coach on the horizon.

Yes I know there is no new coach on the horizon from outside our club..That's our biggest problem.

 

[getsmarty]

Cool story. But anyone who understands the game knows that ability goes well beyond the highlight reel, which is not going to show deficiencies in his game. Hiding behind the highlights reel is a weak, weak argument getsmarty, I thought you’d have done better!

There are 14 other teams who would not parachute Dufty into first grade fullback spot, at best he’d compete for the spot in 3 teams. So at best, he’s around the 12th best fullback in the comp when you consider his all round game. Sure, that could improve but there’s no guarantees and posting his highlights reel as some justification that he’s a must keep is silliness.

Mate, lets agree to disagree on this one...I.M.H.O he is probably closer to the middle of the pack . There is plenty of upside to dufty and with good coaching he would improve. That's our biggest problem in a nutshell.

If he leaves and gets picked up by another club with a decent coach he will improve. We have lacked speed in the backline for years and he has it in spades. As for his deficiencies he did improve as the year went on...problem is people are too impatient.

 

[BennyV]

Mate, lets agree to disagree on this one...I.M.H.O he is probably closer to the middle of the pack . There is plenty of upside to dufty and with good coaching he would improve. That's our biggest problem in a nutshell.

If he leaves and gets picked up by another club with a decent coach he will improve. We have lacked speed in the backline for years and he has it in spades. As for his deficiencies he did improve as the year went on...problem is people are too impatient.

Middle of the pack is super generous. Looking through the likely starting fullbacks next year, he’d compete with Brimson, Hopoate (at his worst) and Wighton (unless they continue with Cotric at fullback). The rest are a cut above. That means bottom 4 at present. And that’s not accounting for some teams (like Penrith) have 2 fullbacks that would be picked before him.

It’s not about being impatient, it’s about being wary. Dufty is high on potential and may well improve, but also has weaknesses in some of the core areas of his position. Could have said the same about Aitken 2 years ago, and Rein a few years before that. Regardless of shitty coaching, we’ve wasted many years on players who simply don’t rise to the task. If there’s opportunity for an upgrade in a key area, we should be considering it IN CASE Dufty doesn’t improve the way that so many people are blindly confident that he will.

 

[Old Timer]

Middle of the pack is super generous. Looking through the likely starting fullbacks next year, he’d compete with Brimson, Hopoate (at his worst) and Wighton (unless they continue with Cotric at fullback). The rest are a cut above. That means bottom 4 at present. And that’s not accounting for some teams (like Penrith) have 2 fullbacks that would be picked before him.

It’s not about being impatient, it’s about being wary. Dufty is high on potential and may well improve, but also has weaknesses in some of the core areas of his position. Could have said the same about Aitken 2 years ago, and Rein a few years before that. Regardless of shitty coaching, we’ve wasted many years on players who simply don’t rise to the task. If there’s opportunity for an upgrade in a key area, we should be considering it IN CASE Dufty doesn’t improve the way that so many people are blindly confident that he will.

Not 1 back has come to our club and improved out of site and in fact most become pedestrian very quickly.
GW was lucky he came from the Bellamy system as that has stood him in good stead but he does fade in games despite his obvious ability and IMO would operate at consistently higher levels at a different club and in a single season we have pushed Hunt to the edge so in essence will it make any difference who comes in the backs as the odds are clearly against them?
Unless we sign the best of the best (we know that won’t hapoen) the coaching deficiencies will outweigh the players ability so this is a circular conversation

 

[giboz71]

I like Dufty, but that Dogs game where we got done 38-0 and a reggies winger in Reimis Smith ran around him not once but TWICE rang alarm bells for me. There were other instances where he failed to tackle anyone when people were coming at him (Parra game I think??)

If there are doubts suddenly about Dufty now, they are probably the games people are looking at. Seriously that was z grade stuff and undid a lot of his good work earlier in the year. Mann got removed from fullback for a lot less.

I’m still undecided if Dufty can cut it as our long term fullback, he has the ability for sure. But that rubbish in those couple of games won’t win a comp. So not totally surprised we are looking at other options.

 

[Como Connection]

I like Dufty, but that Dogs game where we got done 38-0 and a reggies winger in Reimis Smith ran around him not once but TWICE rang alarm bells for me. There were other instances where he failed to tackle anyone when people were coming at him (Parra game I think??)

If there are doubts suddenly about Dufty now, they are probably the games people are looking at. Seriously that was z grade stuff and undid a lot of his good work earlier in the year. Mann got removed from fullback for a lot less.

I’m still undecided if Dufty can cut it as our long term fullback, he has the ability for sure. But that rubbish in those couple of games won’t win a comp. So not totally surprised we are looking at other options.

Well I still believe Mann should be the fullback, alas dopey stuffed that up.
CC

 

[Warabrook saint]

If anyone should go because of deficiencies it's bloody mary

 

[BLM01]

If anyone should go because of deficiencies it's bloody mary

And his merry men or soldiers whatever you call em including lower grade coaches..well Collins is gone so who coaches jersey Flegg?

 

[mickeylane]

Middle of the pack is super generous. Looking through the likely starting fullbacks next year, he’d compete with Brimson, Hopoate (at his worst) and Wighton (unless they continue with Cotric at fullback). The rest are a cut above. That means bottom 4 at present. And that’s not accounting for some teams (like Penrith) have 2 fullbacks that would be picked before him.

It’s not about being impatient, it’s about being wary. Dufty is high on potential and may well improve, but also has weaknesses in some of the core areas of his position. Could have said the same about Aitken 2 years ago, and Rein a few years before that. Regardless of shitty coaching, we’ve wasted many years on players who simply don’t rise to the task. If there’s opportunity for an upgrade in a key area, we should be considering it IN CASE Dufty doesn’t improve the way that so many people are blindly confident that he will.

I’m sorry to say but Dufty is a lightweight in a heavy weight sport. No one has mentioned the 12 times he has been dragged over the sideline before tackle 3 is up and therefore our team giving up possession in a sport where possession is “king”! No one mentions that his bones start to creek as soon as a high ball goes up and he has to back pedal more than 5m to catch it!
Dufty has great pace but that’s it ! I still smell a Widdop to FB move here somehow!

 

[Carlton]

G

Middle of the pack is super generous. Looking through the likely starting fullbacks next year, he’d compete with Brimson, Hopoate (at his worst) and Wighton (unless they continue with Cotric at fullback). The rest are a cut above. That means bottom 4 at present. And that’s not accounting for some teams (like Penrith) have 2 fullbacks that would be picked before him.

It’s not about being impatient, it’s about being wary. Dufty is high on potential and may well improve, but also has weaknesses in some of the core areas of his position. Could have said the same about Aitken 2 years ago, and Rein a few years before that. Regardless of shitty coaching, we’ve wasted many years on players who simply don’t rise to the task. If there’s opportunity for an upgrade in a key area, we should be considering it IN CASE Dufty doesn’t improve the way that so many people are blindly confident that he will.

Exactly, this is not about Dufty as such, it's about the team being as strong as possible. Bad coaching will not improve Dufty and good coaching may or may not improve him, it's a risk and an unknown at best whether he will eventually reach the standard needed week in week out.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Playing Widdop at fullback would be madness. He's now dislocated his shoulder twice, had surgery to fix it and putting him in a position that would probably warrant him to tackle more, taking high balls before being smashed and generally running the ball back into traffic would certainly present too higher risk of permanent injury.

5/8 is his go and that's where the discussion should end with him. If we are chasing or replacing our fullback then we need someone who is robust, quick and can defend stoutly. Widdop is not that guy.

Oh and before those who say he played in the RLWC there, yes he did, but out of necessity not by design. The English fullback they chose got injured and they didn't include a replacement in the squad.
If the fullback doesn't get injured, Widdop doesn't even get a look in at fullback.

 

[giboz71]

If the target is indeed Norman at FB, and he can get past his off field issues, I feel this is a positive step. He’s a very talented footballer and would improve us for sure.

Think back to Round 2, 2017 when he tore us a new one. All that off field shit has clearly has derailed him a bit, but at his best, he’s pretty close to being elite.

Hopefully he can have a Barba like resurrection with us if we do land him.

 

[blacksafake]

If the target is indeed Norman at FB, and he can get past his off field issues, I feel this is a positive step. He’s a very talented footballer and would improve us for sure.

Think back to Round 2, 2017 when he tore us a new one. All that off field shit has clearly has derailed him a bit, but at his best, he’s pretty close to being elite.

Hopefully he can have a Barba like resurrection with us if we do land him.

He's certainly talented but possibly more of a di**head than a talented footballer.
A few years ago i thought he was origin material but has not progressed as i expected him to & it's obviously the company he keeps as well as his attitude.
At the right price & with strong clauses such as one strike your out i could handle him.

 

[Old Timer]

So by the look of it we have to look in the good player but bad boy basket to work out who we are going to sign.
Bad off field behaviour should ensure a discount and then when we get them back up and going again, we watch on as another club pinches them or we otherwise find out the baggage was always too much and the player flops.
Maybe that's why Mann is on the outer he just wasn't tainted enough to begin with?
Maybe we can get a psychiatric clinic going on the old Sizzler site and then we can buy a whole shit load of players who are needing redemption?
Little wonder we are called "Saints".

 

[watatank]

Middle of the pack is super generous. Looking through the likely starting fullbacks next year, he’d compete with Brimson, Hopoate (at his worst) and Wighton (unless they continue with Cotric at fullback). The rest are a cut above. That means bottom 4 at present. And that’s not accounting for some teams (like Penrith) have 2 fullbacks that would be picked before him.

I actually forgot that Hopoate still plays for Canterbury. I was thinking that Dufty would get a shot there because they bought Nick Meaney on a three year deal (former U20s NSW fullback from Newcastle) but they also have the option to move Hopoate back