Balmain and Ryde-Eastwood Joint Venture

[Jeffles]

Ryde-Eastwood virtually bankroll the Balmian PL side already. And they already have recognition of this (on the back ofthe jersey).

As of next year though, there will be a name change and RE will drop their PL team. But it doesn't appear as though RE will be doing any more than they do now for Balmain (which is a heck of a lot). You can do little more than bankroll a team.

I have no beef with Balmain. They are doing their best to surivive and I now understand that. I just wonder what RE stand to gain from this. They are the ones compromising their identity more than any other club (not that they have any fans to care about this).

So are RE using this as an excuse to drop their JBC side?

Is there a guarantee that the JBC money will be re-directed into new RL ventures?

If the pokie tax does hurt RE Leagues (and it will), will RL be the last funding recipient to go (the Balmain approach) or the first (the Guildford approach)?

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Jeffles,

I don't think that the poker machine tax will worry Ryde Eastwood Leagues too much, they own an amazing amount of the property around the Leagues club and I can't see them falling down too quickly. The tax will bite, but their funding to RL as a percentage of their profit would have to be less than other Leagues clubs (ie Wenty, St Mary's, Cabramatta etc).

What does worry me, and I agree with you, is whether or not they will continue their funding of Rugby League when the tax starts to have an effect. By dropping their JBC team, they create a situation when they do not have their own identity anymore (no more hawks) and systematically they can slip away without too much notice. It would be a shame for such a large club with large resources built on the back of Rugby League, to systematically reduce funding until it is gone.

 

[Nfed]

Fred Flintstone is correct, Ryde Eastwood owns about 50 properties (as does Wenty). They will have benefited greatly from the property boom and any pressure on cashflow from additional taxes will easily be handled by sales of the portfolio over many years.

RE Leagues used to put $300k into Metro. This year they spent $185k into JBC and provided Balmain with $80k sponsorship. It appears that Balmain is so strapped for cash that RE will fund the entire PL team ie about $300k, so there would not seem to be any reduction in its contribution to League.

In 2002 I asked RE President Keith Aggett if the Hawks were applying to enter the new PL comp (the Bulls applied but were not included) but he seemed to lack the ambition that RE had in the 70's when they played in the Amco Cup. He described the Cougars as a takeover by Penrith (which it is) but in the end Aggett appears to be the king, engineering his own takeover.

Balmain outlasted other 1908 teams like Annandale and Glebe so that they still existed when leagues clubs were invented but the working class no longer live in the peninsular and Balmain Leagues is close to the Casino. It is not inconceivable that RE will subsume Balmain Leagues over the next 5 years just as North Ryde RSL tookover Eastwood Rugby club. If that occurs the Balmain reference in the team name may disappear.

 

[mightybears]

nfed
if the re takeover happens
i think the balmain name will be the only thing that stays
the tigers should have gone over the north side years ago, 'demography is king'

 

[brook]

As of next year though, there will be a name change and RE will drop their PL team. But it doesn't appear as though RE will be doing any more than they do now for Balmain (which is a heck of a lot). You can do little more than bankroll a team.

from what I hear they will be contributing a lot more cash - it wont be just the PL team they are paying for next year.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Ryde-Eastwood virtually bankroll the Balmian PL side already. And they already have recognition of this (on the back ofthe jersey).

As of next year though, there will be a name change and RE will drop their PL team. But it doesn't appear as though RE will be doing any more than they do now for Balmain (which is a heck of a lot). You can do little more than bankroll a team.

1st things 1st the side will be called "Balmain Ryde Eastwood Tigers" and the jersey will stay the same (except for a Hawk on the sleve) and of course they will be playing out of Leichhardt (apart from 3 games apperantly out of TS this has yet to be finalised)

RE are going to be spending more than the $150k they spend now actually at least double that with full what they call full funding of the PL side (however the actually agreement is that Balmain will allocate funds to the JV PL side which will see some much needed funds aimed at the Junior Leagues for Balmain)

I have no beef with Balmain. They are doing their best to surivive and I now understand that. I just wonder what RE stand to gain from this. They are the ones compromising their identity more than any other club (not that they have any fans to care about this).

RE are viewing this as a possible chance to take over from Balmain so they can venture else where i.e 16th teams bid ;-) but that would only take place if of course Wests continue to remain not for the JV but for themselves which Balmain is sick and tired of and they realise that for the JV to survive long term that this needs to be sorted out otherwise both clubs will not exist

So are RE using this as an excuse to drop their JBC side?

Wouldn't surprise me however they are at least spending double what they spent last year on their JBC side so I guess from that angle no they arn't

Is there a guarantee that the JBC money will be re-directed into new RL ventures?

The guarantee is directed towards the PL side and Balmain JRL for at least the next 3yrs!

If the pokie tax does hurt RE Leagues (and it will), will RL be the last funding recipient to go (the Balmain approach) or the first (the Guildford approach)?

Actually its not the Balmain approach they just need to arrange some funds for another venture and yes that venture will be in rugby league, RE are 1 of very few clubs that are actually debt free and do have the funds that if they truly wanted to would be able to fund the Wests Tigers alone if needs be, however that at this stage isn't on the cards (well I don't think thats there direct plan at this stage at least) but they have made an agreement for at least 3yrs so they will be around for a while to come ;-)

 

[Jeffles]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

It is comforting to hear that RE are increasing their commitment to Balmain. On some level this justifies their increasing presence on the jersey and emblem.

It is also good to hear people lament the loss of a RE Hawks team. I've never been their biggest fan but it is never good to see a club identity go.

If the increased spending on Balmain is a direct transfer of funds from JBC to Junior League, there are mixed emotions.

On one hand it is good to see more money go to Junior RL. The Balmain district unlike many other gentrified areas, still has a lot of families in the area and is still quite recpetive to RL. It would be tremendous to see a boost in junior numbers from Glebe to Epping and out to Burwood.

On the other hand I wonder if there is enough money to commit to Junior League and JBC. The JBC is a useful competition and can serve the structure well. As metroman is only too quick to point out, there has been a progression up the ranks via JBC. The loss of the Hawks club, a mainstay in Metro/JBC, may compromise the standing of the JBC competition (notwithstanding the inclusion of Asquith). Of course I can also read this as RE making a natural progression up the scale of importance in RL but I would've loved to see the Hawks remain in JBC.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Just like when Guildford disappeared, another 17 players are now looking for a place to play high standard Rugby League.

At the rate clubs are moving into joint ventures, I propose that we scrap all Rugby League competitions, make a joint venture between all clubs, pool all money and just have 17 players representing the entire sportof Rugby League. That way everybody has a team at the top level, and the lack of other teams to play against will mean a premiership every year.

What happened to tradition, history and the idea that clubs actually played a part in developing the game?

The Rugby League structure of tiered competitions exists for a reason.

Regardless of the spin that you put on it, 17 players that had a club last year are now in the processs of finding another one ....... what a fantastic strategy to keep people interested in the game !!!!

 

[Mighty Tiger]

I guess some people just can't be pleased can they :roll:

They are giving more money to the development of the juniors something which league in general has been crying out for in ages, so I guess after all they are playing their part in a much bigger way than they where before in developing the game ;-)

 

[Jeffles]

Maybe I want all of my cake. As good as this JV sounds (and I have warmed to it since the start of this topic) I will miss the Hawks in the JBC.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Can't be pleased??

Gee, I be pleased to if a rich club decided to take their team away, brush all their players and put all their money into my club instead. Mate, I'd be doing backflips if that was the case. That is of course until my conscience caught up with me and I realised that players, supporters and history had all been kicked up the arse.

Let's not mistake putting more money into the juniors with redirecting funds from one area into another.

Ryde Eastwood and Balmain used to be two teams for players to aspire to play with, now there is only one team.......where is the development of the game in that?

Even if more money goes into the juniors (and that will remain to be seen) where are they going to play when they grow up now that we are supporting the scrapping a senior club.

Don't kid yourself that all of a sudden A-Grade teams will appear in Balmain to fill the void for places to play. These blokes just won't play, they will dissappear, it has happened so many times before.

No I'm not pleased!! But if I was only thinking of effects at the top level and for my own club and not for the good of the game, maybe I would be.

Farewell Ryde Eastwood. What a bloody shame.

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Can't be pleased??

Gee, I'd be pleased too if a rich club decided to take their team away, brush all their players and put all their money into my club instead. Mate, I'd be doing backflips if that was the case. That is of course until my conscience caught up with me and I realised that players, supporters and history had all been kicked in the backside.

Let's not mistake putting more money into the juniors with redirecting funds from one area into another.

Ryde Eastwood and Balmain used to be two teams for players to aspire to play with, now there is only one team.......where is the development of the game in that?

Even if more money goes into the juniors (and that will remain to be seen) where are they going to play when they grow up, especially now that we are supporting the scrapping a senior club.

Don't kid yourself that all of a sudden A-Grade teams will appear in Balmain to fill the void for places to play. These blokes just won't play, they will dissappear, it has happened so many times before.

No I'm not pleased!! But if I was only thinking of effects at the top level and for my own club and not for the good of the game, maybe I would be.

Farewell Ryde Eastwood. What a bloody shame.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Gee, I'd be pleased too if a rich club decided to take their team away, brush all their players and put all their money into my club instead. Mate, I'd be doing backflips if that was the case. That is of course until my conscience caught up with me and I realised that players, supporters and history had all been kicked in the backside.

Where abouts did RE finsih on the JBC ladder ????

RE where far from happy with the position they where on the ladder and changes within the playing staff would of occured either way especially given that the players on RE contracts all expired at seasons end!

And how many of the JBC players where infact contracted to Balmain and not RE in the actually playing roster ???

RE had a total of 11 players contracted directly to them, the rest where either contracted to Balmain for their PL side or Balmains JF side and the ones that where sent to RE JBC side from the JF side where not impressed at all to say the very least!

Ryde Eastwood and Balmain used to be two teams for players to aspire to play with, now there is only one team.......where is the development of the game in that?

Even if more money goes into the juniors (and that will remain to be seen) where are they going to play when they grow up, especially now that we are supporting the scrapping a senior club.

You ask any of the players who are went from Balmains JF side into RE JBC side and ask them if they aspired to play for RE ????? Of course they bloody don't, they consider the JBC as being a downgrade from playing JF for Balmain or anyother club.

The money has been drafted and let me tell you this it is needed in the Balmain junior compition and other junior compitions in which Balmain do support, its comething clubs like Dundas and Carlingford have been crying out for a few years now and sure Balmain have tried to get things sorted for them by paying for coaches and trainers to be certified, NSWRL saftey courses and well you know where I am going they still do lack the required equipment that numourse other junior leagues have.

Don't kid yourself that all of a sudden A-Grade teams will appear in Balmain to fill the void for places to play. These blokes just won't play, they will dissappear, it has happened so many times before.

Did I say they would ????

Its clear you don't agree with it, and there are some parts I don't agree with as well however overall it was either a JV in has taken place and more funds going towards junior developement as well as Balmain staying alive in some means in PL or no PL and no avenue for players from RE or Balmain to progress through to the NRL (apart from heading out to Wests!)

 

[MoJack]

From what i seen this Year of Ryde when the Balmain Jersey Flegg players were playing for them they were out of thier league. Suspose they were'nt used to playing against an open age group

But they were terrible so i think that JBC is a step up from jersey flegg in my opinion

As Nash, Hunter, brauman, Grant, Jones and Tobin none of them stood out at all

 

[Mighty Tiger]

From what i seen this Year of Ryde when the Balmain Jersey Flegg players were playing for them they were out of thier league. Suspose they were'nt used to playing against an open age group

But they were terrible so i think that JBC is a step up from jersey flegg in my opinion

As Nash, Hunter, brauman, Grant, Jones and Tobin none of them stood out at all

I know Brauman, Hunter and Grant didn't because they where pissed off playing there, Braumen apperantly at one stage asked for a release from his contract because of the time he was getting in the JBC and thats when they started him during thew middle of the season.

I think players should play where they are told to play however above is the thoughts of not just Balmain players but players from other JF and PL sides as well!

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Thank you Mighty Tiger, you have just proven my point down to the last detail. You personify the 'elitist', 'buy the competition' and 'give us all the money' attitude that has seen Balmain and Ryde Eastwood phase out their JBC team.

So the team didn't do so well this year, lets scrap the club. Imagine Newtown had that attitude, they would have pulled the pin and redirected their money in 1909, and again every decade after that.

Why do you think all the players at Ryde Eastwod were contracted to Balmain?? Perhaps it is because the process of gradually kicking tradition in the backside began with the first joint venture two years ago.

Why would anybody aspire to play for the club when Balmain turned it into their reserve grade of their reserve grade and Jersey Fegg team...... they turned it into the place where the players from the back end of their squad got sent. It is a prodct of the relationship..... a product of an elitist attitude.

People lined up to play there before the Balmain arrangement came along. There were years in the 90's, when the Tigers were sruggling, that the Ryde Eastwood Metro Cup team would have given the Balmain reserve grade team a good shake if not a hiding.

Don't be a fool and just refer to the Ryde Eastwood of 2004, because the Ryde Eastwood of 2004 are a product of the Balmain/Ryde Eastwood relationship. Look back to the years when Ryde Eastwood were near the top of the competition in both grades and boasted a host of representative players.

Don't kid yourself either that there were not players at Ryde Eastwood that weren't on contract with Balmain that were probably better than the blokes getting sent back. Who wants to play in a relationship where the players coming back are not as good as the blokes who were there in the first place, and have to give up their spot??

Is this the process these days:
1. Take a club with plenty of resources.
2. Take their playing positions and fill them with the bottom players from other teams.
3. Bag their performances as and ask why they exist.
4. Then take their resources and brush their team.

What a great way to build a club.

Gee I look forward to the future with attitudes like these ones!!!

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Why would anybody aspire to play for the club when Balmain turned it into their reserve grade of their reserve grade and Jersey Fegg team...... they turned it into the place where the players from the back end of their squad got sent. It is a prodct of the relationship..... a product of an elitist attitude.

I'm Glad you agree that it would be awaste of funds for RE to have a side that is full of reserve grade players from both Balmains PL and JF hence why RE will not be having a side in the JBC next year and will allocate funds into areas of development such as the Junior Leagues

 

[Fred Flintstone]

Only a fool would take one quote, use it out of context and try and make a point. Well done. My point is that Balmain is killing Ryde Eastwood with their JV and decisions, and have been sine they starting making arrangements.

You've heard it from other people on this forum. Balmain played players at Ryde Eastwood that simply weren't up to the standard. This caused one bad season, and now the Hawks are no more.

You can just keep looking at season 2004 and one day you might realise how ill informed you are about the whole situation.

Premier League is not the same as Junior League. The money is going into premier league. Balmain Leagues Club is struggling and the money they don't want to spend is now being paid by Ryde Eastwood. Lets just wait and see if the money saved by BLC will go into junior league...it will be a very long wait.

The district has lost yet another club, another place for people to play and watch Rugby League. Rugby League will die a sad slow death in the Balmain district if these ill informed decisions continue.

Balmain can now only dream of the things that other clubs still hold onto .... their own jersey void of any logos from other clubs, and their own name that they started with.

 

[Nfed]

I am not so sure that the RE directors have killed off their team. I think they are just putting themselves in a position to inherent the Tiger's spot in PL if the Balmain Leagues Club falls over a few years down the track.

I certainly enjoyed watching some hard and skilful RE sides in metro and since we are semis mode at the moment I thought I should name the 2001 side that finished 4th out of 7 teams so we can compare it with what the NSWRL did to the comp with the JB points system. I have also named the clubs that these players represented in 1st grade (where aplicable)

1 Craig Carrington (Souths)
2 Craig Gamble
3 Erin Wignell
4 Scott Davey (Bulldogs)
5 Simon Gwynne
6 Keith Blackett (Parra)
7 Ron Jones (Wests)
8 David Wright (Souths)
9 Steve Scahill (Balmain)
10 Nick Edwards (Wests)
11 Tate Moseley (Souths)
12 Nathan Koina (Parra)
13 Shawn Townsend
14 Mark Schrantz
15 Troy Perkins (Adelaide, Panthers)
16 Matt Kelly
17 Troy Barnes (Souths)

And in the RE reserve grade that also finished 4th were:

18 Manoa Thompson (Souths, Wests, Auckland)
23 Daniel Brown (Parra)
25 Tere Glassie (Souths)

 

[Nfed]

The October issue of Rugby League Review states that the current Tigers jersey will only be used when the team plays at Leichhardt. For all other games a hybrid jersey which includes RE's colours will be used.

RLR also quoted RE president Keith Aggett in saying that RE was not prepared to continue to field a side under the JBC points system.