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Bangladesh v NZ 3rd ODI, October 11, Dhaka

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
and i'll add that not having paid attention for a year i'm sure i could make better f**king management decisions than these clowns.

at least we'll have the ashes to entertain ourselves with this summer.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,783
I haven't really understood all this sychophantic stuff about Vetorri's tactical accumen and general intellectual abilities... FFS, I have no idea of his IQ, but you need to have more than a pair of glasses to be intelligent... on his captaincy, seems very run of the mill to me, certainly not in Fleming's league, who I think was outstanding

worry tonight is, he'll get 70 or 80 and Kiwi Grant will help him... Elliott's career will be continued, and the legend of Vetorri as our saviour perpetuated
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
And to be fair to Elliott I think he cops it a bit harshly, averages 35 which is good and in the 25 innings he has had he has played at least 3 or 4 match winning innings and chips in with the ball as well.
 

Chook Herron

Juniors
Messages
1,071
lol just when I thought New Zealand were certain to get a win, they lower that bar just a little more. The top order is atrocious for a national side. 5/20 at one stage
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Guess who made this comment.

"The focus should be on how well Bangladesh played, particularly their captain Shakib Al Hasan who was outstanding throughout the series."


Answer: Darth Vader Fuhrer Vettori. Good wishful thinking that the focus shouldn't be on you and your political dictatorship. You are the neville of all neville captains. I'd rather have Lee Germon as ultimate dictator than you you geek faced twerp.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,783
Guess who made this comment.

"The focus should be on how well Bangladesh played, particularly their captain Shakib Al Hasan who was outstanding throughout the series."


Answer: Darth Vader Fuhrer Vettori. Good wishful thinking that the focus shouldn't be on you and your political dictatorship. You are the neville of all neville captains. I'd rather have Lee Germon as ultimate dictator than you you geek faced twerp.

Where's the loooove Iafeta...

Obviously for him, if the focus is on Bangladesh (who remain pretty ordinary really) then the focus won't be on the collective incompetence of NZ cricket
 

African Monkey

First Grade
Messages
8,671
It doesn't matter how bad Daniel Vettori is going whether it's captaincy, bowling, batting, selector, coach and whatever the f**k else he does patheticly, he'll always be treated like a saint. The golden boy of NZ cricket is untouchable.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,783
That's the problem... there's little question that the likes of McCullum, Taylor, Ryder and Williamson (although new, so doesn't really apply to this point) are very talented... and I've been one to point the finger at them for being quite irresponsible at times... but someone needs to look at the system, because for everyone (Vetorri included) wanting to give them wraps, they remain a very poor interntaional team, and they just dismantled us, in the most appalling way... in a form of cricket that we have been very competitive in...

The only players missing were Styris and Oram... and while Styris is IMO an important part of the team, his treatment by captain Dan suggests that management doesn't hold the same view... either way, Styris and Oram are hardly the future, and Oram's body has meant he's been irrelevant for some time anyway...
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
the guy was a thinker, he's gotta be better than what you have now

it just doesn't seem to be working for you guys atm

Yeah and for some reason they forced him out of the game a year or two earlier then he should have. Especially when he was one of out best top order bats.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,783
Yeah and for some reason they forced him out of the game a year or two earlier then he should have. Especially when he was one of out best top order bats.

to allow Captain Dan to control all facets... that's working out well... :crazy:
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Interesting to see an article where Greatbatch 'slams' the batsmen and says they went away from playing straight. You tell 'em Paddy, clearly they're all listening!! Don't come out too hard in the media against them Paddy, or they'll commit a Sitiveni Rabuka on your old junk in the trunk.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,783
Bring back Andy Moles

Wasn't it the case when he was dumped that the indication (from players) was that technically he wasn't up to it... does that mean they think Greatbatch and Vetorri are???

The dumping of McCullum as VC was also interesting... was he too threatening to Vetorri?? Not like the teams, or McCullum or Taylor's performances have been enhanced
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
In terms of a constructive review, the things that stand out glaringly

-Development Review: Big time problems with taking outstanding development prospects, finishing their skill sets off at first class level and then bringing them internationally when they are ready. I'd review the entire first class system and the resources that go into polishing off these young players. The players I refer to here are the likes of Tim Southee, Brendan McCullum and Ross Taylor. All three have come through the youth system as outstanding talents. None of them have the consistency required. Why? I compare Tim Southee to being in the same career stage as Mohamad Amir. One can bowl sides out. The other looks like he's blowing a gasket after 5 overs. Why? McCullum's point about batting from a juniors perspective has some value, in youth internationals he was scintillating. But he's never been a consistent first class bat, and that is where his logic falls flat on its face. A guy like McCullum needs to take more ownership and make less demands of a meagre team, in the same vain as someone like Andy Flower. The fact that McCullum is being outbatted internationally by the likes of Matt Prior is particularly pathetic on his behalf.

-Coaching review: It is clear in my mind that Greatbatch is not the right choice. For this particular structure, he is a very odd choice. In the 1993/94 England tour, Greatbatch's interpersonal skills with the rest of the team were so poor that he hired his own van to travel between games. He only met with the team at training, official functions, and the matches. The system to me says they are really after a Warren Lees type character. Warren Lees was the master at adding on the final touch and man management. Mark Greatbatch has never been that. Greatbatch was in someways a caustic type individual particularly on that tour. To me, adding Greatbatch to play a basic man management role would be akin to putting either Hadlee or Crowe in that role. That's not where their strengths lie. Infact, its major weaknesses for all three.

New Zealand is not technically proficient enough to delegate coaching skills roles to a current player. I wouldn't even necessarily say Vettori is a great technical player. I would say he's a gritty player who hangs in better than most. To my way of thinking, they need to reconsider Steve Rixon for his drive in fielding drills. Fielding can be something of a differentiation. Rixon turned ordinary cricketers into very good out cricketers. The other one who comes to light is John Wright. Wright started the cultural revolution in India ten years ago that places them where they are. The politics in the Indian dressing room were massive, Wright managed them all and made significant improvements in their out cricket.

-Selectorial structure: I think New Zealand needs to stop the fascination with bits and pieces players batting in the top 6 at either ODI or test level. Players like Grant Elliott and Daniel Vettori from a batting perspective fill excellent roles in the ODI team. But only when they're in their rightful role. I've spoken about this before, but guys like Neil Broom, Shanan Stewart and the like should not be batting below these guys, providing a support funnel for their failures. It should be the other way around. Cricketers it is true are multi dimensional and adaptable in today's era. However, if a player plays his entire career in the top 4 provincially setting his side up for big innings, and another player is used to batting down the order to finish things off, then these are the roles they should continue to play internationally. I genuinely feel sorry for someone like Broom, I still feel 30 odd ODIs in we don't know anything about his ability to craft an innings because we haven't allowed him to do so often enough. The only time a bits and pieces player should come into the top six is if they are sent up to pinch hit in the opening role.

-Stephen Fleming: In my mind, Fleming still has a big role to play in NZC. I know he's not keen on full time coaching. He's keen on cash grabs, who can blame him? My only bias against this idea is that he is a player manager of Brendan McCullum, so he has a bit of a conflict of interests. The other issue is how strained is the relationship with NZC and particularly Vettori over the way he was axed.

Nevertheless, Fleming was an astute leader of men. Not only was he a calming influence, but he knew how to make people tick. The treatment he gave to Graeme Smith a few times was excellent. He knew it'd rile him. It did. But most importantly, he was a tactical master. I think he needs to be involved in a leadership consultancy role. A go to man. The other positive to Fleming being involved in some capacity would be that I'm sure there's tension in the dressing room regarding what happened to him, it would go a way to appease that.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I heard Mark Greatbatch's summary interview on radio sport. At no point did he blame Vettori, himself, or senior players/senior leadership group. The points he made were:

-Batsmen not playing straight enough
-Batsmen not setting themselves
-How great Shakib Al Hasan is

Shakib is a very good player, but he shouldn't be pussy whipping New Zealand on his own.

I can't say I was impressed by Greatbatch's response. He also said that Bangladesh recently beat the West Indies as some sort of 'look, they can beat other teams too' type comment. Can I please have the pleasure of running through the Windies team in that final test?

1 Dale Richards
2 Omar Phillips
3 Travis Dowlin
4 Ryan Hinds
5 Floyd Reifer (Captain)
6 David Bernard
7 Darren Sammy
8 Chadwick Walton
9 Ryan Austin
10 Tino Best
11 Kemar Roach

Two things. They generally ran Bangladesh close in that series.

Secondly...

WHO?

I have never heard of 3/4 of that team, the others I only know because I'm somewhat interested in cricket stats as a cricket tragic.


There was an article espousing our other darkest moments. One was the 1994 tour of South Africa. We lost 5 out of 6 ODIs on that tour. The only one we didn't lose was a no result. It should be remembered though that half the squad was smoking whacky dack and stealing pinot noir's from the Western Cape wineries. I reckon that team half stoned could have whipped this team.
 
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