Bell tolls for Union

[El Duque]

BTW are you saying these guys don't earn a cent from club rugby?

If they earn $1 or 20c it aint amateur according to the Macquarie

amateur:noun<span> 1.</span>someone who cultivates any study or art or other activity for personal pleasure instead of professionally or for gain.<span> 2.</span>an athlete who has never competed for money.<span> 3.</span>a superficial or unskilful worker; dabbler.
--adjective<span> 4.</span>having to do with an amateur or amateurs. [French, from Latin: lover]

 

[imported_Roopy4246]

Crowds at games have dropped a bit, but the number of people viewing League on TV has grown hugely since the advent of pay TV.

To put a bit of objectivity back in this debate (not always my strong suit, but I'll give it a try), Union is on a high at the moment and League is coming off a low. Despite that League is still miles ahead.

Sport goes through these cycles. A few years ago there was serious debate over whether basketball would become our largest sport in a few years. If soccer had made the World Cup finals it would have taken off like never before. AFL is booming in Brisbane on the back of an AFL premiership. Swimming is experiencing a Thorpe led recovery. Rugby League is still suffering from our recent self destructive behaviour. I can remember when there was serious doubt over whether the Wallabies could beat Argentina and whether they would drop out of the top ten in the world. At that time Union was dead in the water in Australia.

Union can crow in Australia for the moment, but they won't be on top for ever, well, actually they will never be on top. Union will always fight with soccer for third or fourth place in Australian Winter sport, while League fights with AFL for first and second spot. Union are having their day in the sun, but it is not going to last much longer.

 

[imported_BulldogTim]

I know it doesn't matter but I think Marcus should give up. This sort of thing has happened to me before and I lost big time.

Cheers Tim

 

[Willow]

My understanding is that club Rugby Union starting offering renumeration to it players in Sydney a few years back. There was big stink over Drummoyne paying its players in the mid nineties and getting kicked out the comp as punishment.

Whether RU is considered amateur or not is quite irrelevant in any case. The fact is, when you compare it toRL, RU has been struggling to draw weekends crowds for the best part of the last century.

Its open to speculation why this is the case.It may be because of the promotion or professionalism of the game. Perhaps its more to do with the fact that RL is better spectator sport.

Internationally, RU has a stronger foothold.

Both codes have shown their strengths.

 

[imported_Te Kaha]

The friday night before Christmas and you were all in front of your PC's???????
Maybe a few more should follow Willows advice and getout more.
It seems the argument is now about Australia and not NZ but I was asked a question.
MFC
I will be back with those stats about % stories when the INL offices open on monday.
But here are two stories from last nights evening post that I though are relevant.
In regards to your statement that the clubs aren't being looked after:

Wellington Rugby clubs have been handed a third of the home unions projected record 2001 surplus pf $1.3 million (how many NRL clubs made profits?)
The $428,500 paid to Wellingtons 18 clubs today equates to a 22 percent increase on last years $350,000 payout and is a huge increase on the $78,250 given two years ago. Now how is that for looking after the clubs. It will mean the clubs will be able to lower subs, improve fields and clubrooms and invest in junior development.

Oh the article also mentioned "sales for season tickets(super 12, NPC and test) and Hurricanes and Lions passes (NPC,Super12 but no test) are heading for RECORD FIGURES."
This even after the crap seasons for both Hurricanes and Lions whichseem to make anabsurdity of claims on this board that Union in New Zealand is in trouble.

Another story was about how 100 sports journalists - in print, radio and tv voted their top ten stories for 2001:
Top story 1st equal the announcement of Tiger woods playing in the 2002 NZ Open "the worlds leading sportsman coming to New Zealand" and Wayne Smiths end as Coach of the All Blacks. "The extent of the controversy and the importance of rugby to New Zealand"

And what about the Warriors? The team that did the impossible, having no team at the start of the year. The team that was written off to come last. A team which then went on to record wins over top class foes. A team that then went on to make the semis.
Where did this story come in importance in 2001?????????? 2nd you would expect or at the outside 3rd or 4th No.A wopping SEVENTH !!!!!!
Generally shows how far league has come this year.

From: bronco Sent: 21/12/2001 7:02 PM
"I thought you were a diehard league fan who hates rugby. But the fact you attended a Super 12 game is quite interesting. Just imagine how many leaguies just like you did the same. Many more will do it again next season."
Legend was given free tickets. Thats the only way you'll get a league fan to go to the rugby. No league fan in his right mind is actually going to be paid to be bored out of his mind for 2 hours. I don't know many people who would turn down free tickets.
Didn't you say you went to a super 12 game? Are you saying you got a free ticket? tickets that are generraly sold out weeks in advance?

From: bronco Sent: 21/12/2001 6:57 PM
I was watching ESPN the other day and about 35,000 turned up to watch a fishing weight in at a bass fishing tournament and union only gets 12,000 to their club grand final. As moff said 12,000 to a final is a disgrace in any sport and even fishing outdraws your club final
How many turned out to watch the Bartercard Cup grand final this year between two Auckland clubs at Leagues spirtual home????? Less then 5,000. hat were your words? "discrace in any sport" by comparrison how many turned up to the NPC final when tickets were only availabe five days in advance? SELLOUT at jade stadium.

 

[Marcus]

Willow:

"You seem pretty quick to stoke the fire regarding international figures. Whats wrong? Afraid of the other side of the coin?"


I know club rugby doesn't rate much. I never said it did. The fact is rugby is more concerned about international level and provincial level - at least thats the way it is in Australia.

But think about this, what has ever happened to Brisbane's league comp? The once successful Brisbane comp is now struggling to even exist. Ever since the Broncos came in, the league comp has continually declined and is now in financial difficulty. The grand final between Toowoomba and Redcliffe only drew approx. 7,000. This league comp has been left behind and many people couldn't careless about it. How do you feel about that?

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Dog]

Marcus give up
Union loses, you lose.

End of story already. This argument is going around in circles anyway and you are constantly dodging questions. Don't bother, they'll just keep trouncing you

 

[imported_bronco]

Didn't you say you went to a super 12 game? Are you saying you got a free ticket? tickets that are generraly sold out weeks in advance?

Actually the last Super 12 game I went to I was given a free ticket. A couple of years ago the class I was in went to a Super 12 game and it was all paid for so yes I still wouldn't pay. The sold out weeks in advance gave me a good laugh. You could get into a chiefs game or blues game on gameday easily. Wellington is the only team that really sells out pretty quickly and even then they don't sell out every game because theres about 35k seats in there and quite often the official attendance is only about 30k.
Other times when I've gone to rugby matches I've always been invited and shouted a ticket. As I said no rugby league supporter would actually pay to be bored out of their mind for 2 hours.

How many turned out to watch the Bartercard Cup grand final this year between two Auckland clubs at Leagues spirtual home????? Less then 5,000. hat were your words? "discrace in any sport" by comparrison how many turned up to the NPC final when tickets were only availabe five days in advance? SELLOUT at jade stadium.

An NPC final that is stoked with about a century of tradition and advertised to hell up against a two year old club competition which is below the Warriors so its basically a second division competition.

Its quite funny that your trying to cling onto this arguement that died down 50 posts ago and now starting up a new one with me. Personal vendetta? I mean you've just popped onto the scene now.

 

[El Duque]

Well I can't say I'm surprised Mucous hasn't answerd my question.

Maybe we should just ignore this little queer untill he answers about the 50 questions that peoplehave asked him.

 

[imported_Te Kaha]

Its quite funny that your trying to cling onto this arguement that died down 50 posts ago and now starting up a new one with me. Personal vendetta? I mean you've just popped onto the scene now

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thats brilliant !!!!! You think someone who has a difference of opninion with you has a "Personal vendetta"? Listen laddy you had better get back on that medication quick smart. Your starting to get a little paraniod. As for"50 posts ago" its not my fault that you lads were all in front of your PC's on a Friday night. You lot really nead to get out more.
An NPC final that is stoked with about a century of tradition and advertised to hell up against a two year old club competition which is below the Warriors so its basically a second division competition
Well the NPC second division got 15,000 still three times more then the Bartercard cup. And the NPC has less then 30 years of tradition it was only started in the 70's. Oh and the location of the Final to the Bartercard Cup was known at the start of the season yet got less then 5,000. The locationof theNPC final was decided 6 days before it was played yet still sold out with in two days of tickets being on sale. Which code is in better health?

You are quite right this argument is going around in circles. However you have not given one shred of evidence that the, and I quote " game of union in this county is on its knees". Lets make it nice and easy for you. State your evidence and if I can't disprove it, your right. If I can disprove it I stand by my statement that your first post is a pile of Bullshit.

 

[El Duque]

"As for"50 posts ago" its not my fault that you lads were all in front of your PC's on a Friday night. You lot really nead to get out more."

Can you please tell us all in detail what we did this week and when we did it as youclaim to know peoples lives and what they do with them.

 

[imported_Te Kaha]

Can you please tell us all in detail what we did this week and when we did it as youclaim to know peoples lives and what they do with them

I didn't claim to know what you did with your week. Just what you were doing onFriday night. And generaly speaking sitting in front of a PC on a Friday night is not considered by most, to be a good thing.

 

[Dog]

So all of a sudden you dictate what's cool and what's not Beowolf?

For your information half of my school mates were online last night, and I'm not exactly a geek.

 

[El Duque]

"I didn't claim to know what you did with your week. Just what you were doing onFriday night. And generaly speaking sitting in front of a PC on a Friday night is not considered by most, to be a good thing."

No offence shit for brains but did you think that it was possible that just maybe people may leave home late on a friday night/saturday morning when going out?Or is there a set time people must leave?

f**kwit!

 

[ozbash]

 

[Willow]

"sitting in front of a PC on a Friday night is not considered by most, to be a good thing."
Huh? What sort of a snob are you Biowolf? I'm sorry if not everyone in the world fits into what you deem to be acceptable daily routine.
One of the great things about this forum is that we let anyone in...even narrow minded trouble makers. That means we get people (most of whom are excellent contributors) with lifestyles which give way to different circumstances. It might be family, work or something more personally physical.

 

[imported_bronco]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thats brilliant !!!!! You think someone who has a difference of opninion with you has a "Personal vendetta"? Listen laddy you had better get back on that medication quick smart. Your starting to get a little paraniod. As for"50 posts ago" its not my fault that you lads were all in front of your PC's on a Friday night. You lot really nead to get out more.
The fact that you have dragged up an arguement that died a good 50 or so posts ago and are still dragging it one when I have clearly indicated we should drop the arguement yet your too f**ken thick to take a hint unless I tattoo it on my forehead.
As Tim said most of his friends were online. Heaps of people from my school were online and do spend alot of time online and last time I checked my school was named nerdsville college.
You obviously have something against me because right from your very first reply it was filled with insults.

Well the NPC second division got 15,000 still three times more then the Bartercard cup. And the NPC has less then 30 years of tradition it was only started in the 70's. Oh and the location of the Final to the Bartercard Cup was known at the start of the season yet got less then 5,000. The locationof theNPC final was decided 6 days before it was played yet still sold out with in two days of tickets being on sale. Which code is in better health?
30 years compared to 2 is a hell of alot. The NPC was well advertised and you'd have to be living in a hole for a week not to have known it was on. On the other hand bar a couple of sky television adverts which even still is only going to a select audience you would'n't have known the bloody thing was on. Big difference and you know the difference in media attention both competitions get.

And mate you can blab on all you like about my following comments but their falling on deaf ears coz I don't give a stuff I you want to chase this arguement around because its going nowhere in a hurry.

 

[ex-manager]

"I didn't claim to know what you did with your week. Just what you were doing onFriday night. And generaly speaking sitting in front of a PC on a Friday night is not considered by most, to be a good thing."

ROFLMAO

Ten quid to Meltiger.

 

[imported_Te Kaha]

BRILLIANT: I wish I got that many violent bites when I was REALLY fishing. Those might have almost snapped the line. You really need to lighten up ladies, unless the vitriol is because it hit a little close to the mark.

The fact that you have dragged up an arguement that died a good 50 or so posts ago and are still dragging it one when I have clearly indicated we should drop the arguement yet your too f**ken thick to take a hint unless I tattoo it on my forehead.
Temper, temper. you can tattoo it on your forehead if you like. I wouldn't advsise though. I wouldn't look as good as a Moko and it might be taken the wrong way. I was asked for some facts which I posted. Like I said I couldn't post on Friday night as I was out.

As Tim said most of his friends were online. Heaps of people from my school were online and do spend alot of time online and last time I checked my school was named nerdsville college.You obviously have something against me because right from your very first reply it was filled with insults.

Actually if you were able to read, and you go through my post again the only "insult" I wrote was telling you to grow up. I think you should leave "nerdsville college" as the name implys that you really should be able to read before you attend. Nowthat was an insult.

30 years compared to 2 is a hell of alot. The NPC was well advertised and you'd have to be living in a hole for a week not to have known it was on. On the other hand bar a couple of sky television adverts which even still is only going to a select audience you would'n't have known the bloody thing was on. Big difference and you know the difference in media attention both competitions get.
Firstly, if you bothered to check. In Auckland the League GF was HEAVILY publicised on local TV with the Mad Butcher, in ALL the local Newspapers. The Herald had some very large adverts. It was upto a month before the GF.
Secondly, your first post was ALL about how "Union in this country was on it knees" and how League was making rapid inroads. Changed your mind have you?

And last of all, I noticed in that last profanity filled post (which by the way shows a total lack of maturity) you did not once try and put forward any arguments that "Union in this country is on its knees" I would take it that is because you know that you have lost that argument.