Best coach ever? Gibson V Bennett

[Babyface O'reilly]

Souths were shithouse in 77 when Gibson took them on.

Took Easts to the semis in his first year as coach. They were spooners the year before having failed to win a game.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Took Easts to the semis in his first year as coach. They were spooners the year before having failed to win a game.

It was worse than that. The 1966 Roosters team lost every game that year finishing with 0 competition points. 18 games played for 18 losses.147 points for and 446 points against. Coach was Bert Holcroft.

At the end of the 1967 season, with Jack Gibson in charge, and with the same squad as 1966, the Roosters finished 4th winning 13 of 22 games played, with 2 draws and only 7 losses. 269 points for and 219 points against. As it was only a top 4, they played the Bulldogs in the Minor-Semi Final (which was a knockout games) losing 13-2.

Hence on this point, GongPanther is certainly wrong (as you and Mr Spock have pointed out).

 

[Mug Costanza]

The ‘star studded squad’ argument kills me. Who was the last team to win the comp full of plodders?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It has to be David Kidwell

 

[Perth Red]

Some recent coaches with less than honourable win record!

Trent Barret 97 games 33% win record
Stephen Kearney 121 games 35% win record
Nathan Brown 269 games 41% win record

 

[GongPanther]

Gibson did build the Easts side, I thought

In 1973, they just missed the top 5 as they were on a build up. I always had the notion he went to Easts in 1974 after coaching St George.

 

[GongPanther]

Souths were shithouse in 77 when Gibson took them on.

deleted: more info in previous posts.

 

[10$ Ferret]

The ‘star studded squad’ argument kills me. Who was the last team to win the comp full of plodders?

Cronulla ?

 

[10$ Ferret]

I don't think you can compare Bennett and Gibson. Bennett has been around so long, did Gibson ever ruin any clubs ?
I don't think Bennett could do what Gibson did and I don't think Gibson could do what Bennett has done (good and bad). Saying that despite the large negative impact he has had on the game Bellamy is better than both.

 

[Ghostface Killah]

In all seriousness, he's a top line defensive coach, which is a start. Maybe this time next week it will be time.

If you win, Gould deserves the credit.

 

[The_Frog]

If you win, Gould deserves the credit.

There'll be enough to go around.

 

[The_Frog]

In 1973, they just missed the top 5 as they were on a build up. I always had the notion he went to Easts in 1974 after coaching St George.

He first coached Easts in 1967, taking over after they had lost every match and got back to back spoons and taking them to 4th place, even though they didn't win a game until round 6.

 

[Ghostface Killah]

There'll be enough to go around.

Haha, I'll pay that. Good comeback.

 

[Ghostface Killah]

Bennett has been around so long, did Gibson ever ruin any clubs ?

This idea that Bennett ruins clubs is laughable.

It's a throwaway line that the board members of the Illawarra Steelers, Newcastle and Brisbane throw out to the media to deflect focus away from their own incompetence, and any fan of those clubs that buy it is a moron.

 

[Chimp]

For me it’s Bennett, purely because he’s been successful in across a period of time where the game has changed significantly. The game in the eighties was very different from the game in the 90’s, the game in 00’s was very different to 90’s, and then today’s game is different again - he’s also had to deal with a massive change in how players react to coaches/management, where players have much more ‘power’ and influence than they ever have, yet he still remains renowned for his man management and team management.
Was the game significantly different across Gibsons era? I’d say Bennett has been successful over at least 4, maybe 5 very different eras of the game. He’s either very adaptable, or his methods cut across all eras, or maybe a mixture of them all - whatever it is, he keeps getting them up, and that’s at club level, Origin and international…. I don’t think it’s even a contest when you take that into account.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

For me it’s Bennett, purely because he’s been successful in across a period of time where the game has changed significantly. The game in the eighties was very different from the game in the 90’s, the game in 00’s was very different to 90’s, and then today’s game is different again - he’s also had to deal with a massive change in how players react to coaches/management, where players have much more ‘power’ and influence than they ever have, yet he still remains renowned for his man management and team management.
Was the game significantly different across Gibsons era? I’d say Bennett has been successful over at least 4, maybe 5 very different eras of the game. He’s either very adaptable, or his methods cut across all eras, or maybe a mixture of them all - whatever it is, he keeps getting them up, and that’s at club level, Origin and international…. I don’t think it’s even a contest when you take that into account.

The game did change during Gibson’s time simply because he changed the game. He was known as an innovator. His many firsts included having players fitness assessed scientifically, introduced gyms and weight training, statistics to assess player values and game analysis, video sessions, teams training with other codes and visiting/studying other clubs from different countries, departmentalise coaching department into specialist disciplines, the bomb. All shit we take for granted now. Bellamy has changed the game to the extent that rules have been brought in an attempt to nullify his tactics. Can’t say Bennett has changed the game but he’s been brilliant at adapting and succeeding (as you pointed out) at whatever the game has thrown at him. I’m happy to sit on the fence here. They’re both legends and can see Bennett having an award named after him one day.

 

[Captain Apollo]

For me it’s Bennett, purely because he’s been successful in across a period of time where the game has changed significantly. The game in the eighties was very different from the game in the 90’s, the game in 00’s was very different to 90’s, and then today’s game is different again - he’s also had to deal with a massive change in how players react to coaches/management, where players have much more ‘power’ and influence than they ever have, yet he still remains renowned for his man management and team management.
Was the game significantly different across Gibsons era? I’d say Bennett has been successful over at least 4, maybe 5 very different eras of the game. He’s either very adaptable, or his methods cut across all eras, or maybe a mixture of them all - whatever it is, he keeps getting them up, and that’s at club level, Origin and international…. I don’t think it’s even a contest when you take that into account.

Jack Gibson's first year as coach, in 1967, saw the introduction of limited tackle football in rugby league with teams only have 4 tackles in possession. Prior to that it was unlimited possession. Taking a tap from a penalty was also re-introduced that year. The six tackle rule came in 1971. Value of field goals was reduced to 1 point in 1971 from 2 points.

1981 saw the differential penalty for scrum infringements brought in. It also saw the introduction of the sin bin. Also saw the number of replacements allowed increased to four.

1983 saw the value of a try increased from 3 to 4 points. Also saw the handover introduced if the team in possession was tackled with the ball.

I could go on, but yeah Jack Gibson never saw any significant rule changes during his coaching career

 

[Chimp]

Jack Gibson's first year as coach, in 1967, saw the introduction of limited tackle football in rugby league with teams only have 4 tackles in possession. Prior to that it was unlimited possession. Taking a tap from a penalty was also re-introduced that year. The six tackle rule came in 1971. Value of field goals was reduced to 1 point in 1971 from 2 points.

1981 saw the differential penalty for scrum infringements brought in. It also saw the introduction of the sin bin. Also saw the number of replacements allowed increased to four.

1983 saw the value of a try increased from 3 to 4 points. Also saw the handover introduced if the team in possession was tackled with the ball.

I could go on, but yeah Jack Gibson never saw any significant rule changes during his coaching career

I wasn’t really focussing on rule changes alone; the bigger impact is the move away from pretty much semi-pro, to full time pro, to now the age of sports science etc - the difference between the game late eighties to now is fundamentally different in almost all aspects, yet the game, the environment and the players wouldn’t have changed massively in Gibsons time. I’m not trying to do him a dis-service, just saying Bennett has been able to adapt and maintain success through huge changes in every element of our sport.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Bellamy is pretty good

 

[big hit!]

I don't think you can compare Bennett and Gibson. Bennett has been around so long, did Gibson ever ruin any clubs ?
I don't think Bennett could do what Gibson did and I don't think Gibson could do what Bennett has done (good and bad). Saying that despite the large negative impact he has had on the game Bellamy is better than both.

Which clubs did Bennett ruin?