Blow It Up

[Quicksilver]

27 out of 30 of the GF squad are no longer here. The rebuild has been happening for the past 2-3 seasons. Youth is being brought through, and it will continue next year.

The lack of recruitment is largely attributable to being hamstrung by cap constraints.
That eases up next year, though I don't really see any established players available who would bring anything more to our squad than what we already have. You don't just spend money for the sake of it.

Tamou, while well past his prime, would be a great addition to the squad: a forward leader with upwards of 250 games experience. Someone to help bring the young guys through and show them the ropes of NRL. Not just on the field, but off it as well. Fifita looks pretty much cooked and we need someone to fill that void should he fall over at any point next year.

The only players I really see available on the market are either untested youth, or middle-of-the-road journeymen. Why take a punt on that when we can just invest in developing our own youth?

You don't just clean out the joint and go to market in the hope that it will call come together.
This is a pretty tight-knit squad by the looks of it, and most of them with plenty of time left in their career.
Some minor additions here and there would be great, but a clean out is overkill IMHO and would set us back another 3-5 years.

Nice bit of realism.

So much more productive than just DEMANDING we *somehow* offload underperforming multi-million dollar contracts for no cost and bring in marquee players.

We are already suffering from a reduced salary cap and a limited operating budget but people demand an absolute dog’s breaky be cleaned up within the space of half a season with a premiership.

People make me laugh.

 

[jc155776]

Someone beat me to it but this year is already a rebuilding year. Look at the youth and inexperience coming through getting blooded. The fact we still make the 8 l, with cap constraints, under firing high paid players (many of whom f**k off after 2021) has us looking good for 23-25.

To have a team still making the 8, not being absolute shite, with the experience we have and penalties we are going through is great.

I think we have areas of improvement, and if we can f**k off a couple of high value underperforming contracts even if paying half we should, but there is a lot of good going on. Just need a couple more smart competitors, some resilient toughness types in the team. Recruit from good club cultures, no more overpaying for players who never played finals from loser teams.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

Just to put it in perspective....we have made the semis 6 years straight and have blooded 10 players in the last 18 months. Yes we have to sort out Moyzaa ASAP and at some point Fifi... Chad and Duges but the rebuild is already happening and it’s happening on a shoestring budget. I hope Bomber gets the opportunity to continue his rebuild in ‘22 when some serious cash becomes available.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

I agree he is not going to win us a premiership, I also doubt he has ability to draw players to the club, which means paying overs again.
He got the job by default.
If Paul Green misses job at Broncs chase him or Fitzgibbon both have linkage to the sharks

Pretty hard to say that Bomber won’t be able to attract players to the club at this point. He had to offload JMoz just so we could buy 3 players on minimum wage just to fill our roster. I think the development of guys such as Talakai....Toby.....BHU and Royce Hunt has been exceptional this year.... and they have played less than 100 games combined:

 

[spirit of league]

If we don't sign Robbo, Teddy, Cookie, Cleary, Turbo & Jurbo yesterday... I'm gonna throw my toys outta the pram, goddamit! Waaaahh

Bomber miles ahead of the curve. Future well on track.

Look at the Panthers example: Cleary started a project based on developing youth, got ditched because Gus had a whatever, Pennies fumbled along between various coaching failures 'til they got Cleary back. Nek minit, minor premiers, etc.

Siddown.

 

[ghoti]

Yeah echoing the other responses in here: this IS the rebuild, it so obviously is the rebuild...and the bomb HAS been put through the place. It was the Flanno ban, the salary cap penalty, and Morris IS the rebuild coach (he's introduced almost a dozen youths that he had a hand in developing underneath the premiership squad).

Morris needs to be seen as playing a rebuild role and he's in year two of three. Making the 8 in the circumstances of the first two of very very blatant rebuild years is step one. I think Morris gets next season to solidify the squad, and then we assess what the club's doing by mid year...if we're competitive within the top 8 then an extension isn't unreasonable.

I'm of the mind that Morris is an assistant coach and juniors guy, so the main part I agree with this thread is finding a top line coach for 2022. But were most f**ken certainly rebuilding so don't panic til we have to

 

[Ads]

If we don't sign Robbo, Teddy, Cookie, Cleary, Turbo & Jurbo yesterday... I'm gonna throw my toys outta the pram, goddamit! Waaaahh

Bomber miles ahead of the curve. Future well on track.

Look at the Panthers example: Cleary started a project based on developing youth, got ditched because Gus had a whatever, Pennies fumbled along between various coaching failures 'til they got Cleary back. Nek minit, minor premiers, etc.

Siddown.

Really think Morris is the guy?

 

[Quicksilver]

Really think Morris is the guy?

Why not?

Any coach is going to have to endure some pain at the moment.

No one thought Flanno could win a comp. he did.

It’s only in hindsight you can see a clear “premiership winning coach”

look at Madge ffs.

It’s about putting pieces in place. He’s moving and developing the parts he has control over. We can’t know his full ability until he can work from more of a clean sheet. The bits which have inhibited us the most are the ones he has has very little control over.

 

[snout]

Its money.
We could rule the RL world if we had it.
Like Broncs and Rorts have for decades.

But you have to spend what you have wisely.

Bomber ticks a lot of boxes. Intelligent. Knows the game and a good club culture. Good communicator.
Likeable and believes in youth development.

However this bunch we have needs more. They need to understand discipline. Training with intensity. Game day preparation.
Look at Wades game.
Chads sideways shift.
Our poor starts.
Our defensive blowouts every week.
2 dropped balls in the first 2 sets last night.
Many key indicators where whatever bomber is doing...it ain't enough or it aint working.

We have the cattle to make top 6.
We arent at the storm and roosters level. We are at the knights and souths - 6 and 7. And parras who are top 4.

Is bomber the guy to get us there.
No.
Is that a criticism. Not all all - l believe he will be a very good coach. But thats years away.

The best money we could spend would be to bring in a Tim Sheens.
Well not a Tim sheens. Just bring in Tim sheens. Just as a sounding board. Mentor. Consultant.
He took the game to another level at raiders. Australian coach.
Sharpest tool in the coaching shed.
Has done it all.
Assmebled a green machine of nobodies with raw talent into a dynasty.
He is doing...well, nothing.
Bombers curve would rise sharply and quicker.

Theres a story in todays paper where we are looking at dean pay or peter gentle as an assistant coach next year.

Their 2 sides are currently last and 2nd last.

You couldnt make this shite up.

 

[Quicksilver]

I like Tim Sheens but he’s had a lot of down periods in his career too.

The West Tigers missed a stack of finals after ‘05. Actually they were pretty crap for a lot of that era except for the premiership run.

His coaching stints weren’t all well oiled Green Machines and Benji Marshall flick passes.

My point is not that he sucks because he doesn’t. My point is that good premiership coaches can’t always just flip the team performance when things start going wrong. It doesn’t make them bad, just a victim of circumstance.

 

[snout]

You wouldnt bring him in as coach.
His best is gone and hes been out too long.
Just a head full of knowledge who knows what works and who could say we did this at canberra when that didn't work. Or we found that the best way to get that happening was this. Or leading into finals footy we applied this.
Or this defensive structure worked best inside our ten. Or running his eye objectively over something bomber cant see because hes too close.

Golden nuggets passed down from someone who has tried and tested. Who had it passed down to him.

Bombers been thrown in to make his own way.

We seriously have to start getting more professional because we have been left behind.

Clubs are signing obriens and robinsons and seibolds. Guys who spent time under bellamy. Guys who were mentored by a winner

 

[Tiger Shark]

Its money.
We could rule the RL world if we had it.
Like Broncs and Rorts have for decades.

But you have to spend what you have wisely.

Bomber ticks a lot of boxes. Intelligent. Knows the game and a good club culture. Good communicator.
Likeable and believes in youth development.

However this bunch we have needs more. They need to understand discipline. Training with intensity. Game day preparation.
Look at Wades game.
Chads sideways shift.
Our poor starts.
Our defensive blowouts every week.
2 dropped balls in the first 2 sets last night.
Many key indicators where whatever bomber is doing...it ain't enough or it aint working.

We have the cattle to make top 6.
We arent at the storm and roosters level. We are at the knights and souths - 6 and 7. And parras who are top 4.

Is bomber the guy to get us there.
No.
Is that a criticism. Not all all - l believe he will be a very good coach. But thats years away.

The best money we could spend would be to bring in a Tim Sheens.
Well not a Tim sheens. Just bring in Tim sheens. Just as a sounding board. Mentor. Consultant.
He took the game to another level at raiders. Australian coach.
Sharpest tool in the coaching shed.
Has done it all.
Assmebled a green machine of nobodies with raw talent into a dynasty.
He is doing...well, nothing.
Bombers curve would rise sharply and quicker.

Theres a story in todays paper where we are looking at dean pay or peter gentle as an assistant coach next year.

Their 2 sides are currently last and 2nd last.

You couldnt make this shite up.

What assistants would you bring in from the top clubs?

that’s right none want to leave a top club probably paying more and with more resources.

Any of the top assistants have eyes for the top gig so we’re only going to pick up an AC lifer, which is fine, a lot prefer that to being a HC.

 

[Frenzy.]

I agree he is not going to win us a premiership, I also doubt he has ability to draw players to the club, which means paying overs again.
He got the job by default.
If Paul Green misses job at Broncs chase him or Fitzgibbon both have linkage to the sharks

Paul Green - Broncos OR Qld SOO

Craig Fitzgibbon - Roosters next coach. Won't drag him out.

I doubt we have the cashola to get into the marquee coach market either,.

I don't subscribe either way on whether Morris brings the Provan Summons Trophy to Cronulla. I didn't expect anything better then what we have this year. I actually think that 8th is mediocre in a big picture but for this year I see it as an achievement. As per DJDL post there has been many setbacks, very few stars aligning and barely a modicum of luck.

Ads is also one I agree with in context of rebuilding. In fact I see it as already in motion. 2 consecutive years in the semis under Morris with 2 vastly different teams is a good result in the scheme of things. Would you wood ducks rather go support the Tigers and be 9th every year? This is exactly the WRONG time to sack a coach. Stability is needed in a rebuild. Let him see out this contract, build the team next year and monitor results. By then all salary cap problems, fines etc will be out of the picture. For any marquee coach people want to bring in the place has to be left better for them to consider it. The only other way is to get some egomaniac in who thinks they can give rise to the dead. Like Paul Green who is divisive and abrasive. He can coach superstars but proved this year he can't coach kids and rookies.

As to bringing players to the club don't forget the fact our best recruitment man is now a talking head on Channel Nein. Gallen had as much or more to do with most signings when Pissflap senior was here. It's an aspect of Gall pulling the plug that has hardly been given recognition. Recruitment is NEVER about one man, one club, one culture, one coffee shop, one venue, money etc.

He also didn't get the job by default. The club ran a process and others were interviewed.

As In have said before, the club is in for a long haul. There isn't a quick fix. So if anyone really expects all the bizarre and whacked out fixes that get posted here are going to bring success you may as well take a 5 year sabbatical from the forum and get into counselling pronto.

 

[Frenzy.]

I don't think he's that bad. He is dangerous with the ball in hand, but needs a partner to steer the side around and just let him run.

To be fair, I like the sound of a Trindall, SJ pairing more but from what I've seen I think they both prefer to play right side so maybe that is why Tracey is getting the game time.

Time will tell.

Tracey is not lighting my fire but I don't think he's 100% shit. I just don't think he is a "Cronulla" style player nor is he a 6 IMO. He's an out and out 7 and needs to be in control AFAIC.

I'd like to see how he goes at fullback. He and Brimson could be twins. I think he could succeed there. Would give us the ball playing fullback we need whenever Mythlan is on annual leave.

One favourite phrase in here is "rocks and diamonds". Kennedy is the definition. He is brilliant one week and appalling the next. But to be fair, there's not much in front of him and half the things he does badly are from being in situations a fullback shouldn't be facing if the frontline is doing the job.

Scope creep

 

[spirit of league]

Really think Morris is the guy?

To win a premiership for the Sharks? Good question.

Provan, Fearnley, Gibson & Lang are a few well respected names springing to mind who achieved premierships elsewhere but couldn’t get the Sharks over the line.

Bomber? Yet to be seen, but given the circumstances he’s exceeding expectations & deserves: a) his chance with less systemic handicaps & f**kups beyond his control; and b) the club’s full support while ever this is still in process.

 

[Frenzy.]

Why not?

Any coach is going to have to endure some pain at the moment.

No one thought Flanno could win a comp. he did.

It’s only in hindsight you can see a clear “premiership winning coach”

look at Madge ffs.

It’s about putting pieces in place. He’s moving and developing the parts he has control over. We can’t know his full ability until he can work from more of a clean sheet. The bits which have inhibited us the most are the ones he has has very little control over.

Yes he did. And as much as I have no time for the guy he did what other before him couldn't.

John Lang
Arthur Beetson
John Raper
Alan Fitzgibbon
Ted Glossop
Jack Gibson
Opes
others

That's an impressive list of marquee coaches who couldn't bring home the bacon to the Shire.

 

[Version IV]

Yes he did. And as much as I have no time for the guy he did what other before him couldn't.

John Lang
Arthur Beetson
John Raper
Alan Fitzgibbon
Ted Glossop
Jack Gibson
Opes
others

That's an impressive list of marquee coaches who couldn't bring home the bacon to the Shire.

You forgot Stuart Raper

 

[Frailty]

I'm sorry, I think you lose credibility when you make suggestions like bringing Paul Green and Tim Sheens to the club. It's clear you have no understanding of the game. Paul Green was run out of the Cowboys because he put the locker room offside. He had one of the best halves in the last twenty years and got one premiership, and a whole lot of missed finals. He is not a good coach.

Let's put some things into perspective:

• The club already is rebuilding. We have an extremely young side, and piece by piece older players are being let go.
• Morris in two seasons has had to deal with salary cap penalties that were not his fault, only one off-season, the club releasing a senior centre only to have a young centre get popped for PEDs.
• He has taken a team that most experts predicted the Sharks to finish 10th-14th, to the finals.
• He has blooded a lot of youth who have performed.

It seems like some have seen how good this team can be and somehow expects young players to be consistent. This isn't how it works.

Morris absolutely isn't perfect. But I know SJ who was in career best form had a lot of praise for Morris as a coach. Morris showed he won't stand for poor form when he dropped Nikora, who was much more motivated on his return. He is being judged as not being able to recruit when, if anything, he has recruited extremely well with the limited budget he has had.

People need to relax. The Sharks are rebuilding and are still performing - one of few clubs to have made the finals consistently in recent times.

 

[Chimp]

It doesn’t take a genius to see that we have too much money tied up in certain players who aren’t providing anywhere near value for money - not even value for half of their money.
If we’re talking Premierships, let’s look at the squad and see which players you could see being part of a premiership 17 at the Sharks. In positions where I don’t believe we have a premiership winning option, I’ll put vacant;

1 - Vacant
2 - Katoa
3 - Dugan
4 - Ramien
5 - Ronaldo
6 - Vacant
7 - SJ
8 - BHU
9 - BB
10 - Woods
11 - Nikora
12 - Wade
13 - Vacant
14 - Talaki
15 - Rudolph
16 - Vacant
17 - Vacant

In my opinion, we’re short of 5 high quality players for our top line 17 to be serious challengers (So not quite wrist slitting numbers). We then need much more depth - outside our current top 17, we don’t have anyone knocking the door down for a starting position. Players like Hunt/Williams/Tracey/Trindall should be squad men pushing for a game - but then we’ve got another 9 spots that literally add NOTHING.

Desperately need a 1 and a 6, and players like Wade and SJ on form.

1 good off season of recruitment could make us contenders. With Chad and Moylan gone, that would free up some cash and squad space, but I presume we’ll be paying more than half of Moylans wage if we could shift him, so won’t free up too much.

 

[Quicksilver]

It doesn’t take a genius to see that we have too much money tied up in certain players who aren’t providing anywhere near value for money - not even value for half of their money.
If we’re talking Premierships, let’s look at the squad and see which players you could see being part of a premiership 17 at the Sharks. In positions where I don’t believe we have a premiership winning option, I’ll put vacant;

1 - Vacant
2 - Katoa
3 - Dugan
4 - Ramien
5 - Ronaldo
6 - Vacant
7 - SJ
8 - BHU
9 - BB
10 - Woods
11 - Nikora
12 - Wade
13 - Vacant
14 - Talaki
15 - Rudolph
16 - Vacant
17 - Vacant

In my opinion, we’re short of 5 high quality players for our top line 17 to be serious challengers (So not quite wrist slitting numbers). We then need much more depth - outside our current top 17, we don’t have anyone knocking the door down for a starting position. Players like Hunt/Williams/Tracey/Trindall should be squad men pushing for a game - but then we’ve got another 9 spots that literally add NOTHING.

Desperately need a 1 and a 6, and players like Wade and SJ on form.

1 good off season of recruitment could make us contenders. With Chad and Moylan gone, that would free up some cash and squad space, but I presume we’ll be paying more than half of Moylans wage if we could shift him, so won’t free up too much.

good post.

If we could miraculously clear all our salary cap problems I’d put a good fullback at the top of the Wishlist. Kennedy wouldn’t be on a stack of money so he can stay and push his case while keeping the seat warm- if it works out then all good.

I think we can probably use one of the halves we’ve got on the books for the number 6. Trindall hopefully, but see how it goes.

So if we can just hit up maybe another hard headed forward or two and then the rest of the spots will sort themselves out with squaddies I suppose.

I wouldn’t mind if Woods left either. He does ok but he’s not really my ideal player.