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Brian Smith Responds to Terry Hill

Hurriflatch

Referee
Messages
22,093
Michael Witt ----> Tim Smith
Daniel Heckenberg ----> Paul Stringer
Kylie Leuluai -----> Fuifui Moimoi
Junior Langi ----> Timana Tahu

It works both ways

to be honest overall Brain problably breaks even
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,773
Hurriflatch said:
Michael Witt ----> Tim Smith
Daniel Heckenberg ----> Paul Stringer
Kylie Leuluai -----> Fuifui Moimoi
Junior Langi ----> Timana Tahu

It works both ways

to be honest overall Brain problably breaks even

Very true.

HOWEVER, please allow me to be the devil's advocate just for one moment...

* Michael Witt - his biggest problem is his attitude and lack of involvement. Everyone can see he has loads of talent. Had he stuck around and gotten a good talking to from the coach, who knows how he may have turned out, had he persevered in working hard?

* Daniel Heckenberg - he was starting to find good, solid form, much similar to Peek's, before we offloaded him.

* Kylie Leuluai - now, I would much rather have Moi Moi than Leuluai. But he was playing great football for us, and when they're both in form and fit, are both very similar players.

* Junior Langi - that's a no-contest, really.


I guess my point was, if we were going to offload the likes of Jason Cayless, Andrew Ryan, David Solomona, PJ Marsh, Alex Chan and co., why did we replace them with the likes of Stapleton, Treacy, McFadden, Dykes, etc.?

It would have worked out better for us to simply persevere with our Juniors and sign one or two middle-carders, so to speak.
 

parra pete

Referee
Messages
20,607
Eelementary said:
I respect your posts and your passion.

But can you honestly say that the players are of equal quality?

Jason Cayless--------->Craig Stapleton

Andrew Ryan---------->Darren Treacy

PJ Marsh------------->Andrew McFadden

etc.
Andrew Ryan--Glen Morrison
Clinton Schifoscke -Brett Hodgson
David Vaieliki- Ben Smith
Scott Donald - Eric Grothe Junior
Mick Witt - Tim Smith
Adam Dykes - Timana Tahu
Brett Hodgson - Wade McKinnon
McFadden, Treacy, Stapleton were here for a season. They did a job for us..The pay they were on enabled the Eels to keep Nathan Hindmarsh.
 

strider

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78,832
Eelementary said:
I respect your posts and your passion.

But can you honestly say that the players are of equal quality?

Jason Cayless--------->Craig Stapleton

Andrew Ryan---------->Darren Treacy

PJ Marsh------------->Andrew McFadden

etc.

Now you wanna back that up with a salary comparison???

Caylo left years before Stapo arrived - mind you stapo played pretty well while he was here.

Same with Ryan and PJ.


Dude - I don't usually mind your posts - but the bullsh*t comparisons are old news and have little substance.
 

sparkeel

Juniors
Messages
92
:lol: :lol: :lol: Brian has said what everyone thinks. Hill is a old hack who can't cut it anymore. Actually he is a try scoring machine, he has scored 3 tries this season, the same number as that reserve grader Ian Hindmarsh and the superstar Ashley Graham ;-)
 

Eelementary

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56,773
It is true that we eventually replaced quality players with quality players, yes.

And I acknowledge Brian for it.

I also acknowledge we have a salary cap - which is why I raised the question.

Instead of signing lower names like Stapo and Hopkins, why didn't we just see how our Juniors fared?

Would have been even cheaper.

It was just an observation.
 

Eelementary

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Messages
56,773
strider said:
Now you wanna back that up with a salary comparison???

Caylo left years before Stapo arrived - mind you stapo played pretty well while he was here.

Same with Ryan and PJ.


Dude - I don't usually mind your posts - but the bullsh*t comparisons are old news and have little substance.

What bullsh*t comparisons?

True, this year we have signed qaulity players.

But we let a lot go as well, and signed players we may not have needed.

Dollar for dollar, I don't believe for one second that for every quality player Brian released he had one of equal quality to sign.

Yes, we did eventually sing Stringer and co. to cover for the losses of J Cayless and co.

But in the meantime we signed nobodies of limited skill to cover. Equal quality?

I don't think so.

THAT was my point.
 

Phillips

Referee
Messages
24,049
Stapleton played his best footy while he was with us, so did Hopkins

dont know why so many people wanted to keep Andrew Ryan, the bloke is ordinary, give me Morrison anyday of the week
 

strider

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Messages
78,832
Eelementary said:
It is true that we eventually replaced quality players with quality players, yes.

And I acknowledge Brian for it.

I also acknowledge we have a salary cap - which is why I raised the question.

Instead of signing lower names like Stapo and Hopkins, why didn't we just see how our Juniors fared?

Would have been even cheaper.

It was just an observation.


Why didn't we throw kids on the park against the likes of Webke, Tallis etc - I think we've seen the benefits of holding guys back a little until they are ready - ie. Tim Smith.


The guys you bandy around as our main buys were never intended to be our strike weapons....they were bought as depth....BUT we were torn apart by injuries to our top line players for a few years and that meant those guys played a sh*tload more.....obviously we didn't do too well - much like the dogs, roosters, panthers, raiders this year.
 

Eelementary

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56,773
Good points.

But not all our Premier League/lower signings are 18 or 19 years old (suchs as Dalton and Jeremy Smith, who are 24 or something).

Look, I think Brian has done a great job this season.

I was merely saying that making a statement along the lines of, "For every talented player we've let go, he's signed one of equal ability," is getting atad too excited.

Yes, yes, I know - the salary cap.

But as great a coach as he is (and I think he is) he IS human, and he makes mistakes.

Such as releasing Solomona.

That's all I was pointing out.

Now, if I could kindly have my head back, which was hitherto bitten off....
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,773
I guess I'll just shut up from now on and just limit myself to agreeing with everyone else.

Hate to cause a fuss.

And I'd hate to be the one to express his own personal opinion on these very boards.

So I apologise for ever saying anything on these forums.

Words cannot express how badly I feel for having screwed up the peace and harmony on this board.

I shall be but a silent observer from now on, keeping my unholy views to myself.

Thank you all for your time.
 

strider

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78,832
No one's saying he is perfect - but your player comparisons had nothing to them - seriously.

I think Smithy is a great judge of talent - he might struggle with certain players, his style may not suit them as well as others but I think he has proved more often than not that he knows what he is doing.

eg. Witty - while wiity now gets the sh*t bagged out of him here, the majority of people on this forum loved him when he played alot of games for us - but Smithy decided Timmy was the way to go and allowed witty to go.....and then there's the other Witty that everyone adored and Brian let go - the other Witty couldn't get much of a run with a team that was on the verge of calling up under 8s to fill the holes. ;-)

I like Solo too - but fact is the NRL is ALL about the play the ball and unfortunately Solo can't cut it there....again I can understand why he was let go.
 

strider

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Messages
78,832
Eelementary said:
I guess I'll just shut up from now on and just limit myself to agreeing with everyone else.

Hate to cause a fuss.

And I'd hate to be the one to express his own personal opinion on these very boards.

So I apologise for ever saying anything on these forums.

Words cannot express how badly I feel for having screwed up the peace and harmony on this board.

I shall be but a silent observer from now on, keeping my unholy views to myself.

Thank you all for your time.


Oh don't bung on the big sook post now.....why can't people disagree with u? - u disagree with someone else and its ok, but if others disagree with u its a crime.....come on.
 

Eelementary

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56,773
Ok. I will admit that my previous post was drastic.

But it does seem like I am a source of frustration for some people.

A number of my posts have been met with harsh critcism - which is fine.

But on many of those occassions, a few people have "played the man, not the ball" so to speak.

Why do I let it get to me - it's just a silly little forum.

I don't know. I really don't.

I'd like to think I don't have an abrasive personality.

But even in reality, people constantly need to arue my views and prove me wrong. Often it doesn't bother me, particularly when the topic at hand is a subjective one.

But a lot of the time I find that I am having to explain myself for something that is factual - simply because I apparrently give out an abrasive or unfriendly vibe.

All I meant by my first post was - player for player - whether parra pete really believed that for every quality player we've released, whether he truly believed that Brian brought, or had available at the cluba at the time, players of equal ability.

I know salary cap constraints played a large part in certain big name players leaving. Most, if not all, NRL clubs go through that at some stage.

But I for one don't feel as though we signed players of equal ability to those we released.

I mean yes - Stringer, Morrison, Tahu, Robinson, Marsh and Riddell are brilliant.

And Morrison, Riddell and Marsh are probably standouts - they were of equal or better ability to their counterparts.

But it is openly debatable as to whether Stringer is as good as an in-form Jason Cayless (which i for one don't think so, as much as I respect Stringer), Morrison is as good as Ryan was back in 2001 (I'd say he is, yes) and whether Tahu is as good a centre as Vaealiki, Lyon and Tonga (yes, no and yes, I believe).

I think we all get a little too excited when things go our way - saying things like, "Sign Brian up for life," and, "His eye for talent is second to none."

He is a very, very good coach - I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

For whatever the reason - available players, salary cap, etc - I for one don't think that for every good player released he signed a player of equal quality.

I mean this is a good example - Dykes.

Who did we sign when Dykes left? Marcus Perenara? And John Morris was already at the club.

Now, I hear Marcus P is pretty handy. And I respect John Morris and love watching him play.

But if we're fair dinkum, an in-form Adam Dykes is just a brilliant and classy player.

I myself place him above Morris in the 5/8 department, as unpopular as that may be, and feel like we didn't sign anyone of equal ability to cover for him.

I wasn't trying to attack parra pete or anyone's post - merely I was trying to put things in perspective and ask what I thought was an important question.
 

strider

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78,832
Dykes - we signed Piggy and Johny moved to 5/8 :D ....doesn't have to be a replacement in the same position


Look I don't wanna knock u down personally or anything - I just thought your comparisons were silly, so I said so.....sorry if I was a bit harsh - but it irks me when I feel BS is being unfairly judged.
 

Eelementary

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56,773
That's actually quite a good point.

Riddell and Marsh were signed to allow Morris to move to 5/8.

I have no issues with the coach - I vented my frustrations on this forum in 2004 and 2003, and may have even called for his position to be reviewed.

But that was merely out of sheer frustration - I believe most coaches, given the '03 and 0'4 sides, would have struggled. Particularly given the injuries and suspensions of our top squad then.

He proved in 2001, up to the point of falling 1 game short, and has so far proven this year, what he can do with a good squad of players.

Despite the fact he has never won a Premiership, he is not a hack in my books.

He is an extremely respectable man, with a great sense of humour and a fantastic brain for the game. He also is very easily approachable, and has a passion for the club which really makes me proud to see the name B. Smith named every week at coach.

I know he has made mistakes in the past - but then again, so have other coaches, thinking back on it.

I mean, Souths signed Chris Walker - look how that turned out.

Folkes released Anasta, but chose to keep Mason. A bold, if questionable, move.

I can see now why he chose quantity over quality when signing McFadden, Stapleton, Hopkins, etc. - they were cheap fill-ins, allowign us to accumulate cash so we could go on a quality spree.

Did it work? So far - yes, it has. And kudos to him.

But it goes without saying he has made some...interesting calls in the past.

And for the record - I wasn't one of the people booing him last year every time his face came on the screen, nor did I boo the team.

I just found it interesting, parra pete's comments.

Excluding the year 2005, which I guess was Brian's point all along (to splurge on quality players in '05), how many of the players we signed were quality-comparable to the players we lost?

Naturally, doesn't really matter now, as he did the right thing and signed a host of talent.
 

strider

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78,832
You know, I wouldn't bag Folkes for letting Braith go - I don't think Folkes had much say in it - Braith wanted to go to play with the NSW coach to do his rep chances alot of good.....I don't like folkes, but I think he just did what was availalble to him in the end.
 

WA Eel

Juniors
Messages
662
Eelementary said:
But as great a coach as he is (and I think he is) he IS human, and he makes mistakes.

Such as releasing Solomona.

I dont' agree that releasing Solomona was a mistake. Yes, he was very good in 2001, but by the time he left, I was happy to see the back of him. It almost seemed that he felt he had to offload the ball every tackle and ended up giving away too much possession. I'll take Widders any day - he's far more reliable.
 

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