Brian Smith's contract

[reginald.p]

I really don't see why he needs five years to rebuild. The NRL ladder changes dramaticly every year, the Sharks and Roosters were top 4 last year now they are bottom 4. Players who were playing rep football two seasons ago are now fringe players and vice versa. Our 2009 squad has almost no resemblence to the 2007 squad and the 20011 squad will probably have little resemblance to the 2009 squad. The average NRL career only lasts about 40 games.

How come wayne Bennet can turn the Dragons into premiership favourites in one off season, kevin Moore can take the Bulldogs from last place to second place. But brian Smith is still battling mid table in his THIRD year of "rebuilding". Sorry but how much longer does he need, isn't it time we see some results.

 

[TooheysNew]

How come wayne Bennet can turn the Dragons into premiership favourites in one off season, kevin Moore can take the Bulldogs from last place to second place. But brian Smith is still battling mid table in his THIRD year of "rebuilding". Sorry but how much longer does he need, isn't it time we see some results.

Haha.

 

[voltron]

yeah i admit that this is bugging me too
but then again
the doggies had the core of a good team
solid people who dont get injured, andrew ryan, luke patten, hazem and then had MASSIVE salary cap space, so they bought really well
the dragons have always had a quality side, just not the coaching
and they bought that little bit extra they needed, and loosing gasnier meant they could buy quite a bit

well i dont understand why we couldnt buy once we lost buderus and johns....
and we got rid of overpaid players like reynoldson
but i guess smith went with youth, and that will always take ages to bear fruit

bleh, he just better reach the finals this year
i better be watching SOME september footy

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

I really don't see why he needs five years to rebuild. The NRL ladder changes dramaticly every year, the Sharks and Roosters were top 4 last year now they are bottom 4. Players who were playing rep football two seasons ago are now fringe players and vice versa. Our 2009 squad has almost no resemblence to the 2007 squad and the 20011 squad will probably have little resemblance to the 2009 squad. The average NRL career only lasts about 40 games.

How come wayne Bennet can turn the Dragons into premiership favourites in one off season, kevin Moore can take the Bulldogs from last place to second place. But brian Smith is still battling mid table in his THIRD year of "rebuilding". Sorry but how much longer does he need, isn't it time we see some results.

Difference is Bulldogs can go on a mad spree like that and buy a premiership in one foul swoop, Newcastle has never been able to sign the big players unfortunately.

 

[Karmawave]

" Rebuilding " is the biggest crock of bullsh*t ever when it comes to the NRL ( and many sports for that matter ).

Its a term that's way overused, and while ever you have teams have gone from worst to first in 1 season ( Penrith Panthers 2003 ), teams that go worst to first within half a season ( West Tigers 2005 ), and a team winning a premiership in their second year of being in the NRL ( Melbourne Storm 1999 ) it shows the true meaning of the word ' rebuilding ' when it comes to Rugby League terms - a crock of crap.

Saying he needs 3 years let alone 5 years to ' rebuild ' is simply the biggest cop out ever.

REBUILD? I mean seriously, if you WERE to rebuild, you do it from the grassroot level up, and that being junior development who can develop into first grade talent and build a competitive team year in year out ( see Brisbane/Melbourne )

A few of you playing the REBUILD card under Brian Smith might wanna check out our Under 20's system the last few years and see how successful that's been, and how successful it looks like being anytime within the next 2 years apart from Pete Mata Utia.

Rebuild... pffft.

 

[Serc]

Can you name a team that was worse in terms of roster and results during 05-07 (and even parts of last year) than us Karma?

Maybe Souths is a candidate, and they still haven't quite got out of their doldrums either!

The fact that I'm comparing ourselves to Souths of all clubs says it all. The guys running our club realised (around 2006 i'd guess with the decision to move out Hagan) that it needed a lot of changes in many areas (note not just football), and guys like Burro and Smithy and many others have brought us a long way since then.

I would definitely consider using the term 'rebuilding' such has been the changes in our club in recent years...and well as literally with the AJ Stand, new Western stand/knocking down of the old one

Edit: Yes the jury is certainly out with the juniors still...though an alternative way of thinking of it would be this - the 'damage' done to the juniors so far in terms of producing players has been minimal given how young our 1st grade roster is, we've got heaps of 20-24 year olds in our team as a result.

 

[Karmawave]

The point I was trying to make Serc, is there was no one worse than Penrith in 2000-01-02 either, and they won a comp the following season.

There wasn't many worse than the Tigers mid way through 2005, and they won a comp the same year.

I'm saying regardless of poor form, you don't need 5 years to turn around those kind of results. And especially don't need to call it ' rebuilding '.

 

[Rolla]

" Rebuilding " is the biggest crock of bullsh*t ever when it comes to the NRL ( and many sports for that matter ).

Its a term that's way overused, and while ever you have teams have gone from worst to first in 1 season ( Penrith Panthers 2003 ), teams that go worst to first within half a season ( West Tigers 2005 ), and a team winning a premiership in their second year of being in the NRL ( Melbourne Storm 1999 ) it shows the true meaning of the word ' rebuilding ' when it comes to Rugby League terms - a crock of crap.

Saying he needs 3 years let alone 5 years to ' rebuild ' is simply the biggest cop out ever.

REBUILD? I mean seriously, if you WERE to rebuild, you do it from the grassroot level up, and that being junior development who can develop into first grade talent and build a competitive team year in year out ( see Brisbane/Melbourne )

A few of you playing the REBUILD card under Brian Smith might wanna check out our Under 20's system the last few years and see how successful that's been, and how successful it looks like being anytime within the next 2 years apart from Pete Mata Utia.

Rebuild... pffft.

I think the only thing that will determine the success of this 'rebuilding' phase is hindsight... 2 of the mentioned teams won premierships and have been ordinary since... I think the only thing that could deem this rebuilding phase a success is sustained success. If smith has taken the rebuilding approach he has (with a young team, and the course of a couple of years) then one would expect not only a premiership in the next couple of years but consistant top 8 and 4 finishes. Only then will we be able to call it a successful rebuilding phase. Hopefully this is what eventuates starting this year.

 

[Karmawave]

Tell you what Rolla, I'll take a premiership win anyday, no matter how it comes around mate.

Certainly take it over being 15th and 9th.


If Smith is good enough, we'll succeed this year, not next.

 

[Serc]

Personally I have no idea why Penrith and the Tigers were bad during the periods before they won premierships, though I will say both teams had quality and/or very much in form 1/6/7/9 combos. Which we most certainly haven't had when you take out Johns and to a lesser extent, Buderus (given he's only just left).

I don't think we've used 5 years so far in our 'rebuilding'? Smithy has only been here for 2 and a half years, and at this point we were only supposed to have been without Johns for 1.5 seasons and Buderus half a season.

And by and large we've come full circle in terms of getting a competitive team on the park again...aside from those STUPID losses to teams out of the 8 in recent weeks, and in general at times. Given what I've seen so far this year, if we don't reach my forecast of 5th-7th or better I will be more than a little pissed off!

Edit: Sorry I see where the 5 year comment comes from...I would like to think that the job has been more or less done by the end of this season, especially given our results so far this year.

 

[Rolla]

Tell you what Rolla, I'll take a premiership win anyday, no matter how it comes around mate.

Certainly take it over being 15th and 9th.


If Smith is good enough, we'll succeed this year, not next.

Not arguing with you at all. What im saying is i think smith's goal is not only to get us to the top but keep us there, and whether that happens or not we wont know at this stage. Dont even know if this is the ideal approach. This is why im sitting on the fence for the time being. A few years is a long time just to get a team in the top 8, i expect to start seeing success not only this year but for years to come.

Regarding the tigers and panthers, of course a premiership is great, anyone would take it...but 1 or 2 personel changes and those teams were cellar dwellers again. While a premiership is the ultimate goal, i want to see the knights as a force for years on end.

It could be argued that the rapid rise of the tigers and panthers skyrocketted the asking price of their players and cost them the next 5 years? just a thought.

 

[Pika]

I also dont like the term rebuilding.

Though I think its fair that it will take three years for Newcastle to reach a competitve point (which is this year) when you consider the following three points-

a) a new coach was introduced with completely new playing expectations

b) the player clean out of 2007

c) the fact that the cheque book was never opened for a large buying spree of quality NRL proven talent

I think a combination of all three above circumstances would require a three year plan to produce a quality team.

So in a sense, while the term 'rebuilding' is a bit of a crock, in this instance, I think its reasonable to expect a few years lag in results.

Smith has had that. I think anything less than a top five finish this year amd a geniune crack a title next is failure.

 

[General Knight]

The point I was trying to make Serc, is there was no one worse than Penrith in 2000-01-02 either, and they won a comp the following season.

There wasn't many worse than the Tigers mid way through 2005, and they won a comp the same year.

I'm saying regardless of poor form, you don't need 5 years to turn around those kind of results. And especially don't need to call it ' rebuilding '.

I can't knock what Smith has done for our club but too really see the full benefits of his work we have to win if not this year then next year atleast.

I sorta agree with Karma. In this day and age I don't think a 3-4-5 year rebuilding stage is worth it anymore. What's the point in spending all those years recruiting young guys, developing and growing them into stars when most likely they will sign somewhere else for more money. Lets just pray that we win a premiership before we get to that stage. Otherwise if we miss the opportunity then what? Another 3-5 years of rebuilding?

I surely hope that doesn't happen to us but you got a feeling it most likely will.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I think the key to building long term success at a club is to introduce, nurture and maintain a culture that every player wants to play in side of. Its no coincidence that the Storm have little issues with holding on to their important talent, on much less dough than what other clubs are offering and on long term deals. They have created a tight knit winning culture at the club that players dont want to leave, despite the mountains of cash thrown at them.

 

[Karmawave]

I think the key to building long term success at a club is to introduce, nurture and maintain a culture that every player wants to play in side of. Its no coincidence that the Storm have little issues with holding on to their important talent, on much less dough than what other clubs are offering and on long term deals. They have created a tight knit winning culture at the club that players dont want to leave, despite the mountains of cash thrown at them.

It can be argued the Knights had that....

Until so few local juniors became first graders...

 

[Pika]

Knights had lost that well before 2007.

 

[Joker's Wild]

It can be argued the Knights had that....

Until so few local juniors became first graders...

Yeah we did.....back in 2001

Then we seemed to become the club that noone wanted to sign with.

Hard to blame that on the perception that Smiths selection plicy is anti-local. Long bow to draw Karma

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I think the only thing that will determine the success of this 'rebuilding' phase is hindsight... 2 of the mentioned teams won premierships and have been ordinary since... I think the only thing that could deem this rebuilding phase a success is sustained success. If smith has taken the rebuilding approach he has (with a young team, and the course of a couple of years) then one would expect not only a premiership in the next couple of years but consistant top 8 and 4 finishes. Only then will we be able to call it a successful rebuilding phase. Hopefully this is what eventuates starting this year.

Very well said! I totally agree!

 

[Karmawave]

Wait a second Joker, where did I blame Smith?

 

[Pika]

What era were you referring to then mate?

Hagan did nothing but promote juniors, and before that I think the Club was a tight knight group with a winning culture.

Hagan, Ryan, Rieley???