Brian Smith's contract

[Alex28]

Karma...our team was so bad it did need rebuilding, and we didn't have the cash to do a Bulldogs-esque buying spree to do it. Our team was awful - and the fact that bugger all of them are playing NRL now is testament to that.

The rebuilding thing was the thing that did have to happen under Smith - you are forgetting we had a big huge chunk of cash taken in Andrew Johns in his first year, as well as another big hunk of cash taken in Danny Buderus for the next few years after that. We had a lot of salary cap taken up and he has had to do what he could with what we had. Did we have the option of buying the calibre of Ennis/Hannant/Kimmorley/Morris in one hit? F*** no.

Smith doesn't get enough credit around here. A team like Parramatta has struggled for 20 years after the legacy of Sterling/Kenny. Could have quite easily happened here too - still might...but I'm pretty confident that if this year isn't the year we make the second week of the finals next year certainly will be. I still think we are a half short though...

And any way...if we let Smith go...who on earth do we get? Lots of people are saying "let him go"...but realistically who do we get in his place?

 

[Karmawave]

What era were you referring to then mate?

Hagan did nothing but promote juniors, and before that I think the Club was a tight knight group with a winning culture.

Hagan, Ryan, Rieley???

I'm referring to recent times yes. However...

Player roster decisions and junior development, re-signing talks etc are made by more than just the Head Coach - are they not?

Smith obviously has a huge influence. But at no stage did I ' blame ' him.

 

[Hanscholo]

" Rebuilding " is the biggest crock of bullsh*t ever when it comes to the NRL ( and many sports for that matter ).

Its a term that's way overused, and while ever you have teams have gone from worst to first in 1 season ( Penrith Panthers 2003 ), teams that go worst to first within half a season ( West Tigers 2005 ), and a team winning a premiership in their second year of being in the NRL ( Melbourne Storm 1999 ) it shows the true meaning of the word ' rebuilding ' when it comes to Rugby League terms - a crock of crap.

Saying he needs 3 years let alone 5 years to ' rebuild ' is simply the biggest cop out ever.

REBUILD? I mean seriously, if you WERE to rebuild, you do it from the grassroot level up, and that being junior development who can develop into first grade talent and build a competitive team year in year out ( see Brisbane/Melbourne )

A few of you playing the REBUILD card under Brian Smith might wanna check out our Under 20's system the last few years and see how successful that's been, and how successful it looks like being anytime within the next 2 years apart from Pete Mata Utia.

Rebuild... pffft.

You mention one instance whereby a side went from last to first in the space of two years. Take a look at the history books and tell me how many times that has happened. One time doesnt make it the rule, the 99 other times however tends to support the theory. Your talkin sh*t mate.

 

[Karmawave]

You mention one instance whereby a side went from last to first in the space of two years.

Actually I mentioned one team that went from last to first in one year.

And another that went from crap to winners in half a year.

And another that won a competition in their 2nd season in the NRL.

And that's just in the last 10 years.

 

[Frederick]

Actually I mentioned one team that went from last to first in one year.

Are you referring to Penrith? If so I"m almost positive they went from last to first over two years, not one.

 

[Karmawave]

They went from absolute garbage to winners in 12 months. Whether they were wooden spooners or 12th or 13th out of 15, they went from rubbish to premiers. ( Won 7 lost 17 )

It certainly didn't need ' rebuilding '.

 

[reginald.p]

New zealand finished second last in 2000 and 1st in 2002 the bulldogs finished last in 2002 and premiers 2004 The Roosters finished second last in 2006 and 4th in 2008 etc etc. In the salary cap era teams bounce around from top to bottom all the time Like i said, the NRL ladder changes dramatically from year to year you simply don't need 3 or 5 years to build up to making the finals

 

[Frederick]

New zealand finished second last in 2000 and 1st in 2002 the bulldogs finished last in 2002 and premiers 2004 The Roosters finished second last in 2006 and 4th in 2008 etc etc. In the salary cap era teams bounce around from top to bottom all the time Like i said, the NRL ladder changes dramatically from year to year you simply don't need 3 or 5 years to build up to making the finals

No, but Smith isn't looking at short term, he's looking at long term. Those teams you mentioned, after finding themselves at the top, found themselves back down towards the bottom again over the next few years. Smith is putting together a young team that will be competitive for years and years to come...obviously it remains to be seen whether his idea will actually work or not.

 

[Serc]

Dogs only finished last in 2002 because the NRL took all their points off them! They were a great team for the entire period 2000-2005 (or at least 2001 onwards, can't remember them in 2000 so well)

Anyway I'm a Smithy fan Alex and it certainly does look like he's building a long term team, rather than a quick "lets throw all our eggs in one basket and buy half a dozen quality players" team. Not that I'm knocking what the Dogs are doing right now, but Smithy might be trying something different, to set his team apart from some of the others give us a better chance to excel in other areas.

For example look at the Broncos lineup for this weekend, we have missed almost as many players at other times this year and have still put a decent team on the park...when I noticed some of their recruiting for this year I have secretly hoped that they would experience an injury crisis similar to one of ours in recent years, so I can show all my Bronco loving mates up here how it feels! While they have a history of their unheard of players stepping up to do the job, they would be on par with some of the worst Souths sides of the past decade if most of their top 5 or 6 players became injured.

Its one of the things I'm most proud of during Smithy's reign so far - when we are down half a dozen or more players (with a number of our best included) we actually have the quality depth to cover for it

 

[reginald.p]

No, but Smith isn't looking at short term, he's looking at long term. Those teams you mentioned, after finding themselves at the top, found themselves back down towards the bottom again over the next few years. Smith is putting together a young team that will be competitive for years and years to come...obviously it remains to be seen whether his idea will actually work or not.

So you are saying not only will we win a premiership but we will make the finals every year after that and become the new Brisbane? That sounds nice i guess, but i don't really know what you are basing that on as Brian Smith has not even taken us to the finals yet or won a premiership yet in 25 years of coaching first grade.

I really don't think our team is much younger then any other side, NRL teams in general are all very young. I would be interested in seeing the average age of our team compared to other NRL teams i would be very surprised if there was much difference between them at all. Guys like Houston Wicks Taia Degois Mcmanus Rogers are not young by NRL standards, they are all around 23 24 which is about the average age of a NRL player. The majority of players in the NRL are in there early to mid 20s, its not like in cricket where players peak around 30, there aren't many 30 year olds running round in the NRL.

Secondly sustained succes in the salary cap era is almost impossible. The reason premiers always drop back after winning the comp is because there team comes under the spotlight and its players value rise significantly. because of the salary cap they cant keep there squad together and it gets picked apart by other clubs. it happens to every premier and i see no reason why it wont happen to us if we were to become premiers this year.

 

[Pika]

So you are saying not only will we win a premiership but we will make the finals every year after that and become the new Brisbane? That sounds nice i guess, but i don't really know what you are basing that on as Brian Smith has not even taken us to the finals yet or won a premiership yet in 25 years of coaching first grade.

I really don't think our team is much younger then any other side, NRL teams in general are all very young. I would be interested in seeing the average age of our team compared to other NRL teams i would be very surprised if there was much difference between them at all. Guys like Houston Wicks Taia Degois Mcmanus Rogers are not young by NRL standards, they are all around 23 24 which is about the average age of a NRL player. The majority of players in the NRL are in there early to mid 20s, its not like in cricket where players peak around 30, there aren't many 30 year olds running round in the NRL.

Secondly sustained succes in the salary cap era is almost impossible. The reason premiers always drop back after winning the comp is because there team comes under the spotlight and its players value rise significantly. because of the salary cap they cant keep there squad together and it gets picked apart by other clubs. it happens to every premier and i see no reason why it wont happen to us if we were to become premiers this year.

Very true.

I still think given the upheaval of new coach, new playing roster and a pretty tight cheque book is certainly enough reason to allow a team a few years to reach its peak.

All these things alone probably dont justify a lack of short term success, but all of them happening in one year must have in impact.

 

[Alex28]

It certainly didn't need ' rebuilding '.

Any team where Reegan Tanner and Todd Lowrie were part of our Top 17 without a genius like Andrew Johns to make them look remotely good certainly needed "rebuilding".

We had got ourselves in to a position where we had relied upon and spent so much money on two players that once they had left we were a very weak team. The team needed rebuilding - lets not underestimate the job at hand...

 

[voltron]

face it
our team was in very bad shape when smith came on board
1-17 with no quality
i mean karma you complain about dureau, but at least he has a crack everytime he plays
he plays with more heart than the majority of our old team together (minus the usual buderus, johns, and simpson)
and if you have a very tight chequebook, then you arent going to get the best quality
and it was all about building depth as well
the doggies dont have any depths, they loose kimmorley or ennis or patten then you will see them drop
who can forget the 71-6 pasting our reserve grade side got because we had no depth
but this year, we've had injuries across the board, but we're still competitive
we havent had a full strength side for a while

so smith has gone about building the team keeping a nucleus of the core, gidley, simpson, mullen (and buderus)
and then built a team around them and now we have depth in most positions across the park
and now i have a team im usually proud of (minus the last two games, lol)
but its the most inexperienced side in the comp (raiders are close too)
but we were threatening the top 4 and we still can threaten that top 4
we've taken down most of the competition heavy weights, so we can play
i would rather this, then be a titans who do so well and then lose a few players and cant do anything anymore

 

[Karmawave]

face it

i mean karma you complain about dureau, but at least he has a crack everytime he plays
he plays with more heart than the majority of our old team together (minus the usual buderus, johns, and simpson)

I've definitely never questioned the guys ticker. Just his talent and ability to crack it at NRL level long term.

Any bloke his size running around in the toughest competition in the world certainly doesn't lack heart, and he's always put in 110% everytime I've seen him play.

That's nice and all, but some people need 120% to make it to compensate for lack of skill.

 

[Karmawave]

Any team where Reegan Tanner and Todd Lowrie were part of our Top 17 without a genius like Andrew Johns to make them look remotely good certainly needed "rebuilding".

Lots of teams have throwaway useless players man that are easily released year in year out without the requirement of it taking 5 years to get the pieces all back together.

We have a teams in the Top 4 right now running around with regular first grade contributors by the names of Jarrod Saffy, Gary Warburton, Scott Anderson and Josh Graham - just to name a few...

Lots of teams have a bunch of ordinary players playing off talent outside of them. It's nothing that is restricted to just our club.

For the record, Todd Lowrie is a regular first grader at the Eels currently, and has been all season under a coach not named Michael Hagan, with plenty of quality backrow talent coming through the Eels available to take his spot... To be fair, I've actually thought he's played some decent footy this year too.

Maybe people see stuff in him we don't?

 

[voltron]

I've definitely never questioned the guys ticker. Just his talent and ability to crack it at NRL level long term.

Any bloke his size running around in the toughest competition in the world certainly doesn't lack heart, and he's always put in 110% everytime I've seen him play.

That's nice and all, but some people need 120% to make it to compensate for lack of skill.

i wasnt commenting on his skill
i was commenting that our old team lacked any passion or heart
and now, dureau who (in your eyes) would be our least skillful player
but at least he has heart and that makes him much more worthwhile than any of the other players we used to have, who would play like busters

 

[macavity]

Lots of teams have throwaway useless players man that are easily released year in year out without the requirement of it taking 5 years to get the pieces all back together.

agreed - but in 05-07 we had dozens of them....

 

[Pika]

We didnt just lose the Lowries and the Tanners....

Perry, Newton, Johns, Bedsy. It was a long list over the last two seasons.

There are few teams that can handle loosing the volume and quality of stock we did and not require a few years to develop a competitive unit.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Perry and Newton had to go both had turned way stale and need a fresh start, was best for both parties.

 

[Pika]

I agree.