Bryce Cartwright gone

[Kilkenny]

We are going round in circles here in respect of the departure of Matt Moylan.

It really is a shame.

It goes without saying opinions differ significantly in respect of why Matt Moylan left, or was moved on, or what he did or didn't do but at the end of the day he had to go.

His tenure at our club was over given he had lost the respect of the coaching staff and probably more importantly the majority of our playing group for whatever reason just didn't like him period.

 

[franklin2323]

No, just play to our potential.

Not sure how many times that needs to be said.

I must of missed where our SOO player packed side struggled....

 

[OldPanther]

I must of missed where our SOO player packed side struggled....

Tamou, Merrin, Moylan, Mansour.

Internationals include DWZ, Whare.

Whether you say we struggled or not our roster has some top tier talent.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

Barba was at Cronulla when he got done for drugs and you call that good man management?

CRONULLA has axed Ben Barba from the final year of his contract after testing positive to cocaine four days after the Sharks maiden NRL final win.
The star fullback has departed for a rehabilitation centre in Thailand following a second positive test for an illicit substance amid the club’s historic grand final celebrations.

Barba, off-contract at the end of 2017, has been released by the Sharks in order to “address some significant personal issues.”

The NRL has also issued Barba an automatic 12-match ban from the NRL for a second breach of the its illicit substance policy, with the suspension to be served should he return to the game in the future.

The previous breach is understood to have occurred outside of the NRL competition within the last 12 months.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/53b9d86b16392d9cc05b4e5502bda262

Tom.

Didn't Barba also get a flogging from Feki the same year

 

[franklin2323]

Tamou, Merrin, Moylan, Mansour.

Internationals include DWZ, Whare.

Whether you say we struggled or not our roster has some top tier talent.

Not in the key positions though.

Look at the last 4 teams standing.

Storm had all 4 spine players in QLD team together 3 of them with 300 games.

Broncos played a GF 2 years ago most of the side in that. Hunt played for Australia. Boyd plenty of Origins and tests

Cowboys had 10 left from the premiership team. Morgan played tests and Origins. Taumalolo won Dally M.

Roosters have been up there for years. Keary won a comp. Pearce won a comp a few minor premierships. Rightly or wrongly played 20+ origins.

Full strength we would struggle to beat them. Throw in Moylan injured a few times then suspended. Mansour/Whare both coming off ACL's. Merrin no pre season then injured. Blake didn't play the semis.

Sometimes I think we over rate our players and leads to disappointment. This current situation is a case in point

It is not like we had a smooth year off the field. Poor selections is the coach but the ACL's aren't. Bryce's life being put on the page wasn't etc

 

[OldPanther]

Not in the key positions though.

Look at the last 4 teams standing.

Storm had all 4 spine players in QLD team together 3 of them with 300 games.

Broncos played a GF 2 years ago most of the side in that. Hunt played for Australia. Boyd plenty of Origins and tests

Cowboys had 10 left from the premiership team. Morgan played tests and Origins. Taumalolo won Dally M.

Roosters have been up there for years. Keary won a comp. Pearce won a comp a few minor premierships. Rightly or wrongly played 20+ origins.

Full strength we would struggle to beat them. Throw in Moylan injured a few times then suspended. Mansour/Whare both coming off ACL's. Merrin no pre season then injured. Blake didn't play the semis.

Sometimes I think we over rate our players and leads to disappointment. This current situation is a case in point

It is not like we had a smooth year off the field. Poor selections is the coach but the ACL's aren't. Bryce's life being put on the page wasn't etc

That's shifting the goal posts a little, you said packed with rep players not the position they play. Yeah our spine is very inexperienced and we've had issues. That's why I said "struggle" was arguable depending how each person wants to look at it. Just looking at the roster we have people who should be delivering more.

 

[franklin2323]

That's shifting the goal posts a little, you said packed with rep players not the position they play. Yeah our spine is very inexperienced and we've had issues. That's why I said "struggle" was arguable depending how each person wants to look at it. Just looking at the roster we have people who should be delivering more.

Sorry I mean't match winning position.

No doubt Alexander said the same thing. Early on especially but a fit Mansour or Cartwright (remember he was injured from Round 2) wins a few more games like v Parra or Roosters.

The problem is those guys Moylan, Peachey, Bryce that could win us games also can make an error or 2. The reviews from Sharks v Wigan game yesterday said Moylan did the same again. Not since Gower/Preston have I really thought we could give the comp a shake.

Even last year Top 4 I thought was possible but we couldn't beat Sharks or Storm. I think once we beat either then the confidence will build

 

[OldPanther]

Sorry I mean't match winning position.

No doubt Alexander said the same thing. Early on especially but a fit Mansour or Cartwright (remember he was injured from Round 2) wins a few more games like v Parra or Roosters.

The problem is those guys Moylan, Peachey, Bryce that could win us games also can make an error or 2. The reviews from Sharks v Wigan game yesterday said Moylan did the same again. Not since Gower/Preston have I really thought we could give the comp a shake.

Even last year Top 4 I thought was possible but we couldn't beat Sharks or Storm. I think once we beat either then the confidence will build

Completely agree. That's why I'm torn between top 4 being good enough to say we've improved or top 4 and week 3 of finals(either way next year would be aiming for GF minimum)

 

[franklin2323]

Completely agree. That's why I'm torn between top 4 being good enough to say we've improved or top 4 and week 3 of finals(either way next year would be aiming for GF minimum)

I will stick with PF for now. If we beat either NQ up there in Round 4 or Sharks at Shark Park in 7. Then that should be the boast in confidence we need to push for the GF

 

[mxlegend99]

Sorry I mean't match winning position.

No doubt Alexander said the same thing. Early on especially but a fit Mansour or Cartwright (remember he was injured from Round 2) wins a few more games like v Parra or Roosters.

The problem is those guys Moylan, Peachey, Bryce that could win us games also can make an error or 2. The reviews from Sharks v Wigan game yesterday said Moylan did the same again. Not since Gower/Preston have I really thought we could give the comp a shake.

Even last year Top 4 I thought was possible but we couldn't beat Sharks or Storm. I think once we beat either then the confidence will build

We arent going to win these games regularly under Hook. His career win rate against top 4 teams is barely over 16%.

His best season was 2011 with Lockyer. Broncos won 2 from 6 against top 4 teams. Career stats he has won 6 from 37.

Consider the star studded lineups and resources he has had. Really his teams win on pure talent. When they face well coached teams they lose 84% of the time.

 

[BxTom]

We arent going to win these games regularly under Hook. His career win rate against top 4 teams is barely over 16%.

His best season was 2011 with Lockyer. Broncos won 2 from 6 against top 4 teams. Career stats he has won 6 from 37.

Consider the star studded lineups and resources he has had. Really his teams win on pure talent. When they face well coached teams they lose 84% of the time.

That's like saying in 1990 that we will never win a grand final because had never won one before. Or we would not win the 2003 Grand Final because John Lang had never coached a Grand final winning team before. Weak argument. Doesn't take into account many things such as change in tactics, fitness levels quality of refereeing, roster etc

Tom.

 

[betcats]

In my opinion, it simply does not matter how or why Moylan came to leave the club - he's gone now, and we have a decent replacement for him. If he was at fault or the club was or the coach was, it was obvious the parties were never going to sort it out, so here we are. It's time for Griffin to show he is a good technical coach.

He is gone, I get that. It’s just an easy example. A small halftime issue blows up to this. I have no doubt Moylans attitude was f**ked by the end and we really did have to let him go by the end of last season. The reason I keep bringing this up is because we are not going to get a squad of 25 footy players that doesn’t include difficult personalities and guys or like to party, it’s just not going to happen ever. We have to be able to manage and deal with players like that to some extent, we can’t just keep releasing them which seems to be our go to solution for every player issue we have.

You break down all of the players we released the last two seasons and individually they all look justified but add them up and it is concerning, it seems Gould has a lot more sway over these kids when they are young, I get the feeling when they get a bit older and are more experienced Gould’s schtick would wear thin, especially if you have been hearing it for years. Add that to a coach with a history of player beefs and a history of releasing talented players in favour of much lesser players and you can see why I am concerned for the rentenfion of the talent we have now.

 

[franklin2323]

That's like saying in 1990 that we will never win a grand final because had never won one before. Or we would not win the 2003 Grand Final because John Lang had never coached a Grand final winning team before. Weak argument. Doesn't take into account many things such as change in tactics, fitness levels quality of refereeing, roster etc

Tom.

Des won Comps with Manly. Nothing with Bulldogs
Ricky was a supercoach with Fittler. Ordinary since
Past really means nothing in these cases

 

[betcats]

Des won Comps with Manly. Nothing with Bulldogs
Ricky was a supercoach with Fittler. Ordinary since
Past really means nothing in these cases

Des took the dogs to a gf or two. If the past means nothing why do people keep comparing griffins win rate with our past coaches? I agree to extent but I’ve seen a lot of supporters use the fact the he has made the top 8 100 percent and is our only coach to do that as some great point.

 

[mxlegend99]

That's like saying in 1990 that we will never win a grand final because had never won one before. Or we would not win the 2003 Grand Final because John Lang had never coached a Grand final winning team before. Weak argument. Doesn't take into account many things such as change in tactics, fitness levels quality of refereeing, roster etc

Tom.

Theyre not even remotely close situations. 37 games over 6 seasons of football at 2 different clubs. Thats a pretty f**king large sample size.

At Broncos he was in charge of the most powerful and resourceful club in the competition. He came to Panthers after we had spent millions matching it.

16% winning rate against top 4 teams career eide. 8% since being here. 0% in finals.

His star studded lineups destroy the shit teams reasonably well. But put him up against similar strengthed teams where coaching becomes a deciding factor and the stats speak for themselves

 

[betcats]

Griffin has had a lot to work with at both penrith and Brisbane and not done much with it.

 

[mxlegend99]

Des won Comps with Manly. Nothing with Bulldogs
Ricky was a supercoach with Fittler. Ordinary since
Past really means nothing in these cases

Des Hasler took Bulldogs to 2 grand finals. But Bulldogs still look at him as a failure for not winning one. They expect more than being a fringe top 8 side.

Ricky took Raiders to the top 4 and eliminated Hook. But hes definitely not that great of a coach. Like Hook his biggest success one thanks to a freakish superstar player.

I would give Des a chance at Panthers..but I dont think Ricky would do any better than Hook.

 

[betcats]

I’d take the following over hook on a heartbeat: Bellamy, Robinson, Bennett, brown. I’d take Ivan back and I would’ve given Brennan a shot rather than keeping hook. Maybe even Barrett also. There’s no other current coaches I want.

Des as good as he can be is a renegade, his last two jobs have been tumultuous, throw Gould in the mix and I see trouble beyond back ended deals.

 

[franklin2323]

Des took the dogs to a gf or two. If the past means nothing why do people keep comparing griffins win rate with our past coaches?

For me to show where are compared to the past say 10 years. Lets say if we only make the 8 but no further under Griffin for say the next 2 years. He will be gone but the next coach will be expected to match that and take the next step.

John Lang had a similar record of finals choking before he got here was average at Souths after. Elliott was decent at Canberra was hopeless here and at NZ. So I don't read to much into past achievements or not

From our previous coaches the next step is regular finals. Once we have achieved that. Top 4 will be the expectation every year from that comps should flow. I am sure the board have an idea when that next step needs to be taken. I presume if Cleary makes Origin this year then next 2 years will be the timeline.

Whether Griffin will be the coach to get us that next step. I have doubts but can see why it hasn't happened yet

 

[franklin2323]

I’d take the following over hook on a heartbeat: Bellamy, Robinson, Bennett, brown. I’d take Ivan back and I would’ve given Brennan a shot rather than keeping hook. Maybe even Barrett also. There’s no other current coaches I want.

Des as good as he can be is a renegade, his last two jobs have been tumultuous, throw Gould in the mix and I see trouble beyond back ended deals.

Bennett failed at Newcastle most Knights fans would of said the same before him. Brown was ordinary at Dragons hasn't really had the roster to show anything up there yet. So you can never really tell. I think McGuire is too good to be unemployed yet here we are