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Bulldog Will Hopoate will not play rugby league on Sundays for religious reasons

Ike E Bear

Juniors
Messages
1,998
If Hoppa gets suspended in there lead up to rounds 10-12, should those rounds count?

On a serious note, if his employers and teammates (and fans too, I suppose) are OK with it, more power to him. None of my business.
 

Snappy

Coach
Messages
11,844
He is not answerable to you.

That's an interesting point.

We as fans, help to pay his rather large salary. By paying for foxtel, digital pass, game tickets ect we are paying for the best entertainment possible, and that means having the best players on the field.
 

drago brelli

Bench
Messages
3,345
Lets leave religion out of this for a sec:

If women (or men) can't work 5 days a week due to baring children they have no place in the work place.

Hopoate is pioneering part time football. People are just hating.

And for those that bring up Hopoate playing on Sundays historically, our past does not dictate our future. Not everyone can or is willing to choose to give up working on a particular day. Obviously Hopoate CAN.

'Bearing'...........what does the comment in bold face mean?
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,488
That's an interesting point.

We as fans, help to pay his rather large salary. By paying for foxtel, digital pass, game tickets ect we are paying for the best entertainment possible, and that means having the best players on the field.

Unfortunately fans can't force someone to work when they don't want to. Whether this affects his salary or not is a byproduct of his decision. Unless a direct employer such as the Bulldogs denies his request then he will get what he wants.

Maybe he is cutting himself out of his big payday but that is his choice. Bulldogs memberships may drop solely due to Hoppa having Sunday's off if so then he will likely either have to take a pay cut or leave. I doubt that would happen though. Maybe Sharks, Broncos and Panthers fans get foxtel to watch Hoppa play Sunday's but again I don't think so.

SBW played during Ramadan, which affected his on field performances. Yet if he came on the market almost every club would line up to sign him.
 

IllawarraGiant

Juniors
Messages
73
Just for fun, I'll give it a shot.

Anyone on here who is pushing for religion to be respected and deemed true needs to ask themselves these questions:

1. If religion is based on truth, then why does every religion champion faith (believing in things without evidence)?
Because religion, by definition deals with the supernatural, the spiritural , the philosophical,the moral and matters beyond the physical. Morality does not have 'evidence' either. What is your proof of 'good' ? Does 'good' exist? how can you prove it? Belief in the spiritual does not depend on the kind of evidence you are likely demanding. Faith is the conscious judgement/choice to believe which will be based on personal experiences and interpretations of the world (physical and non-physical) around them. In many cases those experiences are very profound. I could also expand this answer to include a list of things that non-religious people also have 'faith' in without evidence but I keep away from that digression.


2. Do you follow the same religion as your parents (indoctrination)?.
You suggest religious people are wrong in their belief, not by proving the belief itself is wrong, but rather that because it was taught by a parent it is not credible. This is largely an ad hominen argument.
Does a student believe the teacher who teaches him physics? Why? Chances are 75% of everything he taught has changed in the last 25 years - infact there are highly conflicting schools of teaching in physics that cannot be reconciled. Does that discredit all science? Does that mean no truths can be found there? All human knowledge is passed down! That it may coalesce in community groups is interesting anthropologically but it does not talk to the merits of the pursuit of truth itself.


3. If god created the universe, who created god?
I cant really speak for Hindus and others; but Christians believe that no-one created God. God has always existed. This is probably your weakest proposition in this group of questions: Scientists cant explain the universe before the Big Bang either... and curiously now, a number of quantum physics scientists are now suggesting the universe is indeed a kind of construction - a hologram or programme. If you explore Hindu beliefs, there is an even stronger correlation between their mythic descriptions of the universe and quantum physics. My personal conclusion to this is that there is probably a limit to our capacity to understand the universe - whether approached from a scientific or religious perspective or whether applying religious or scientific language and frameworks to construct that understanding - and that the longer that Science has to build up its particular framework, the closer it seems to edge to a parity with religious understandings.



4) Why is there no evidence for the existence of Jesus outside the bible when there were historians around at the time of the so called mirarcles?
Poor effort. please refer the contemporary Roman historian Josiphius who provides exactly that.
Please also refer to the historical verified contemporaries of Paul, Peter, James, John et al who's historical existence is firmly established and
who themselves gave personal testimony to the existence of Jesus as a person who lived at that time.


5) How is the bible reliable when it was written decades after the so called events took place, not to mention the chopping and changing that kings did to it over centuries
As Im sure you know, the bible is made up of a number of books split into two major collections (and 2 or 3 sub sections within those)
If we consider the old-testament books, then there are copies of these that date from centuries apart with barely a single comma's difference over that time. There is compelling physical evidence that the transcribing of those books (from their admittedly oral origins) were meticulous and that there has been practically no meaningful change to them in 4000 years.

In regards to the New Testament collection, the books that pertain directly to telling the narrative of Jesus's life, well our earliest surviving fragments date from 22AD and there is broad academic acceptance that these were probably first written within less than 10 years of his life. No, its not twitter, but its hardly 'decades' as you have implied. The remaining books of the New Testament make no claim nor have any dependence on being written contemperous to Jesus's lifetime - they are not narratives on his life, but books of teaching based on Jesus's teaching and the practical things that early Christians were dealing with being a banned religion within the Roman Empire. Most acdademics consider most of these to have been authored between AD 20 and 70, with a couple as late as AD90-120.

In regards to the assertion that there was 'chopping and changing by Kings' - I think you would need to cite your evidence of this. There were a series of major reviews of the content of scriptures in the 3rd and 4th century - where the main purpose was to remove the many dubious items that had slipped into common usage in the previous 2 centuries- books of dubious authorship and focus in only on those they could be confident on. These books were canonised and from this we have the New Testament as we have it today. The only meaningful change from this date has been the differing qualities of translations from the original Americ, Greek, Latin to new languages. These have sometimes been poor -but never catastrophic to the central message .. that man, through his actions is separated from God, and that there is a means for reconciliation to him, not by mans efforts, but by God's.


6) As an overall rule, why does religion appeal to the less intelligent and less educated?
I guess this was more a general insult you wanted to throw for fun than a serious point, but taken as its written - 4,000 years of human achievement across all human endeavours argues against this assertion. Where does one even begin?
Adams, Darwin, Keynes, Mandela, Luther-King, Churchill,.. I give up.. try this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Nobel_laureates and a 100 other very easy searches that clearly makes this a very dubious claim.

Also while Christianity has its fair share of villains (as any group dominating history would) - including the occasional Pope - they are nothing compared to non-Christians/atheists and those without religious motivation like Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Japanese in World War II, the Vikings, and other. Being religious is no guarantee of intelligence, or even of 'goodness' - and religion has never claimed it is. But neither is non-religion. . At its core Religion is an admittance of human limitation, frailty and failings and the search for connection to a spiritual source for addressing this. As many stupid things are done in the name of ideology, tribe, race, nation, class, geography - as are done in the name of religion


So there you go; though I should clarify that I am not 'pushing for religion to be respected and deemed true" Im not pushing for anything: I'm just responding the challenge put out and my personal faith is not defined by the questions asked. Those are pretty shallow questions in regards to seeking an appreciation of someone's faith. I don't have faith simply because little scraps of paper from 22AD exist.

Infact I think you will find very few religious people demanding anything these days - rather theyr are in a permanent state of ridicule and belittlement by those who seem to think their own beliefs make them superior and give them the right to mock others. However, simply because of the way the questions have been framed I have dutifully answered them accordingly, but make no mistake, I would definitely assert my right to have my beliefs given the same respect as any other persons without being under any obligation to meticulously justify chapter and verse why I believe what I do.

Were a RL player to refuse to do something due to (say) Gay rights, or to assert a claim of racism, or because of some other cause - I imagine there would be posts of support and praise. But because someone decides to do something in the name of his beliefs and those beliefs happen to be religious, and bang.. the liberalism, and tolerance is out the window! Lets nail that bible basher! Whoo hooo! Bigotry is bigotry no matter how you dress it up: I hope you understand that and are willing to own the label or change your approach.
 
Last edited:

sandshark

Bench
Messages
3,694
Is it true that his "church" gets a cut of his player contract?
I am all for people following their beliefs and dreams while making an honest living for themselves and I will even support them.
But if you come to me saying that you will not work on Sundays but expect to still be paid for that day and on top of that ask for a commission to fund your church.. I will hire someone else who will respect the job and its commitments.

Hoppa is lucky that he has Des.. Deadset would be jobless if Des was not around.

Yet to show talent since walking away years ago. Free ride to Origin and probably will continue that this season.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Is it true that his "church" gets a cut of his player contract?
I am all for people following their beliefs and dreams while making an honest living for themselves and I will even support them.
But if you come to me saying that you will not work on Sundays but expect to still be paid for that day and on top of that ask for a commission to fund your church.. I will hire someone else who will respect the job and its commitments.

Hoppa is lucky that he has Des.. Deadset would be jobless if Des was not around.

Yet to show talent since walking away years ago. Free ride to Origin and probably will continue that this season.

He reached an agreement with his employer he didn't go in there demanding anything. The bulldogs could of said no like the Eels did and he would be playing sundays but they chose to support him. Why is this getting such irrational responses from people? Outside of Bulldogs fans I don't know why anyone would care.
 

THE CHAMP

First Grade
Messages
8,359
Just for fun, I'll give it a shot.




So there you go; though I should clarify that I am not 'pushing for religion to be respected and deemed true" Im not pushing for anything: I'm just responding the challenge put out and my personal faith is not defined by the questions asked. Those are pretty shallow questions in regards to seeking an appreciation of someone's faith. I don't have faith simply because little scraps of paper from 22AD exist.

Infact I think you will find very few religious people demanding anything these days - rather theyr are in a permanent state of ridicule and belittlement by those who seem to think their own beliefs make them superior and give them the right to mock others. However, simply because of the way the questions have been framed I have dutifully answered them accordingly, but make no mistake, I would definitely assert my right to have my beliefs given the same respect as any other persons without being under any obligation to meticulously justify chapter and verse why I believe what I do.

Were a RL player to refuse to do something due to (say) Gay rights, or to assert a claim of racism, or because of some other cause - I imagine there would be posts of support and praise. But because someone decides to do something in the name of his beliefs and those beliefs happen to be religious, and bang.. the liberalism, and tolerance is out the window! Lets nail that bible basher! Whoo hooo! Bigotry is bigotry no matter how you dress it up: I hope you understand that and are willing to own the label or change your approach.


Good try.
However when the situation was reversed some centuries ago it when as follows.

Do you take jesus christ as your lord and saviour?
If the answer was no your head was removed.
What would you prefer?

Ya bluddy Bible basher
 

Bretto

Bench
Messages
2,792
People are still misrepresenting atheism.

Atheism is the absence of belief. So again, that absence of belief does not equal the evidence of any belief, one way or the other.

It simply deals with one single assertion, that there is a god or gods. Atheism says, I reject your claim and am absent of a belief one way or the other. You're saying it's true, so prove it.

It is not a belief system.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,706
I want to see a Will Hoppa T-shirt, something along these lines

big-lebowski-t-shirt-i-don-t-roll-on-shabbos.jpg



Will's could say - "I don't Palm Sunday's"

19d312e6addd75fb9e3b63d73db34867
 

McNulty

Juniors
Messages
354
People are still misrepresenting atheism.

Atheism is the absence of belief. So again, that absence of belief does not equal the evidence of any belief, one way or the other.

It simply deals with one single assertion, that there is a god or gods. Atheism says, I reject your claim and am absent of a belief one way or the other. You're saying it's true, so prove it.

It is not a belief system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUUpvrP-gzQ
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
why can't he go to church in the morning...
Then play footy.

It was good enough for Jason Stevens and Paris Simmons.
Hasem El Masri worked around it .

I know this particular religion is one where the entire world shuts down on Sundays...and if he'd come from that background I could understand.
But he didn't...his background is a footy on sundays ..sometimes with a finger jammed up a bum and sometimes not.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
F**k I hate religion, every f**king vestige of it, the cause of more misery than every other shit happens combined
 

Smirrors

Juniors
Messages
224
Is it true that his "church" gets a cut of his player contract?
I am all for people following their beliefs and dreams while making an honest living for themselves and I will even support them.
But if you come to me saying that you will not work on Sundays but expect to still be paid for that day and on top of that ask for a commission to fund your church.. I will hire someone else who will respect the job and its commitments.

Hoppa is lucky that he has Des.. Deadset would be jobless if Des was not around.

Yet to show talent since walking away years ago. Free ride to Origin and probably will continue that this season.

What he chooses to do with his money is no ones business.

Hopoate supports his church, other players will use it on alcohol, gambling, drugs etc

Also you do not know if he gets paid for Sunday's missed. One would assume though that his contract takes into consideration that he will not be playing a few games a year.

Reality is he would have a job as he probably would still sign up if all teams said no to his request for Sunday's off.
 

Smirrors

Juniors
Messages
224
why can't he go to church in the morning...
Then play footy.

It was good enough for Jason Stevens and Paris Simmons.
Hasem El Masri worked around it .

I know this particular religion is one where the entire world shuts down on Sundays...and if he'd come from that background I could understand.
But he didn't...his background is a footy on sundays ..sometimes with a finger jammed up a bum and sometimes not.

Because its not about missing out on attending church. The concept is Sunday is a day of rest and reflection.

Why would Hopoate work around it when his employer allows him to rest. Those guys you mentioned weren't good enough to make such requests and have it be accepted.
 

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