Can we all finally accept that stadiums are better than suburban parks?

[Perth Red]

I'm fully aware of the concept of averages.My point which you fail to grasp because you're always flogging the big stadium argument ,as being the only answer is:

iI you have a rl tragic city of 2m as Brisbane is supposed to be and you have a stadium of 50,000 (one of the best going around,) and you average 3/5 of capacity, whilst on paper a good crowd in the NRL scheme of things, it still shows the stadium as being 3/5 full, not 4/5 full.

For Broncos to get a 33k avg they need a stadium of over 40k. Again the big games balance out the lower drawing games. If they had a 35k stadium theyd avg around 27k most likely. Also Broncos seemingly dont work very hard to fill the place. The Eels are doing it right, offering a free Jnr GA membership with every adult GA membership and a very reasonable priced family GA membership. Thats how you start to fill the gap more frequently between capacity and avg.
Why the clubs at ANZ with all those empty seats havent done more to fill them is a mystery.

 

[Quicksilver]

They could have a ground capacity of 35k, sell it out every week and end up with the same result.

Might even be able to charge more due to scarcity

 

[Perth Red]

They could have a ground capacity of 35k, sell it out every week and end up with the same result.

Might even be able to charge more due to scarcity

They could but its unlikely, Thursday nights, heavy rain, unfashionable opposition, lethargic NRL fans etc all play a part. Having said that eagles have sold out every available seat to members in the new 60k Optus and have 10k waiting for a seated membership so you never know.

Good example is Broncos first two home rounds
first game 45k, second game 21k.

 

[taipan]

I didnt say having a modern stadium guarantees success, just that not having one seemingly guarantees less success. I didnt say every team in a modern stadium is financially successful, I said THE MOST financially successful are playing in modern stadiums. There is quite a difference and you seem to have misread my post.

Well how many of the NRL most successful financially clubs are playing in modern stadiums: ONE. Brisbane with the whole city to itself.I've discounted ANZ stadium it's a dinosaur of a stadium for our code.
So my so called "misreading "showed in fact your MOST, was in fact ONE in the NRL.And that's the code we are involved with.

And by bringing in the AFL recently ( all of whom at least in Melbourne use the only two modern stadiums)that are available, is not comparing apples with apples to the NRL.
For the very reason of @ the spread of NRL stadiums via geography b)AFL has a city almost to itself because of the "religious fervour" they have for the AFL.If the nRL had that luxury, we wouldn't be debating crowd averages.
As I mention ad nauseam Melbourne geographically, is centralised in so many ways,Sydney 1/3 as big again geography wise and with many physical scapes that divide the city is not in the same ball park.
The sooner we recognise this fact, and instead of worrying about what the AFL does, and instead worry about what NRL clubs are or are not doing ,is the only relevance I give a rat's rear end about.

The real test for NRL clubs as to the financial impact of new stadiums will come with the likes of Parramatta, and North Queensland ,in the immediate future.Then Roosters, Souths,Dogs etc with teh new SFS and a refurbished rectangular ANZ.

 

[taipan]

In the Universe where West Coast eagles make $11.5mill surplus off the back off 80,000 members and 50k crowds which directly brought in $36.8million of fan based revenue.

I know that seems like a different universe to where NRL is at but it is actually in the same country!

How much opposition does the AFL clubs in Perth have? No NRL club, no Super Union club, and A league club out of season.
Their stadium over there cost an absolute bomb.It might well be the same country, but it's a different city, and anyone with half a head of grey matter knows the sporting allegiances of Oz cities, are chalk and cheese.
As if NRL clubs have that luxury or the rl cities have that lack of competition,these AFL areas have.

 

[taipan]

For Broncos to get a 33k avg they need a stadium of over 40k. Again the big games balance out the lower drawing games. If they had a 35k stadium theyd avg around 27k most likely. Also Broncos seemingly dont work very hard to fill the place. The Eels are doing it right, offering a free Jnr GA membership with every adult GA membership and a very reasonable priced family GA membership. Thats how you start to fill the gap more frequently between capacity and avg.
Why the clubs at ANZ with all those empty seats havent done more to fill them is a mystery.

The point is they have a stadium capacity of 50K, and they don't fill it.Nowhere near so.When the Titans played them in the early years ,I believe they got 45k plus, that just doesn't happen for most NRL games

For some reason you are misreading my point.I'm not suggesting the bigger averages of these clubs is bad, it helps overall, no question.I'm merely pointing out ,in a rl city with one team,30K looks good for Sydney clubs ,but for that city it doesn't stand up as it should .
If you have been to ANZ when there is 20K less, you'll understand.The SCG has reinforced the point ,ovals are not suitable for the NRL,and the fans have reacted accordingly by not attending.
Why go to a soulless stadium ANZ, battling you way through traffic for a Thursday night or Friday 6pm game
.I've been to the SCG many times in the past, and I sat on the old hill.It was then an ordinary stadium for viewing ,just as it is today.

I also believe Parramatta will be the next financially strong club, and pro rata their fans are more passionate in attending than the Broncos.

 

[Perth Red]

Well how many of the NRL most successful financially clubs are playing in modern stadiums: ONE. Brisbane with the whole city to itself.I've discounted ANZ stadium it's a dinosaur of a stadium for our code.
So my so called "misreading "showed in fact your MOST, was in fact ONE in the NRL.And that's the code we are involved with.

And by bringing in the AFL recently ( all of whom at least in Melbourne use the only two modern stadiums)that are available, is not comparing apples with apples to the NRL.
For the very reason of @ the spread of NRL stadiums via geography b)AFL has a city almost to itself because of the "religious fervour" they have for the AFL.If the nRL had that luxury, we wouldn't be debating crowd averages.
As I mention ad nauseam Melbourne geographically, is centralised in so many ways,Sydney 1/3 as big again geography wise and with many physical scapes that divide the city is not in the same ball park.
The sooner we recognise this fact, and instead of worrying about what the AFL does, and instead worry about what NRL clubs are or are not doing ,is the only relevance I give a rat's rear end about.

The real test for NRL clubs as to the financial impact of new stadiums will come with the likes of Parramatta, and North Queensland ,in the immediate future.Then Roosters, Souths,Dogs etc with teh new SFS and a refurbished rectangular ANZ.

Any stadium without a grass hill is a modern stadium by comparison so again the fact is all the wealthiest nrl, afl, soccer, union and basketball clubs in the country play in modern large capacity mostly all seater venues. The lowest drawing clubs in our Comp and mostly the lest financially successful football club operations in the country are Sydney’s suburban clubs. Titans and knights being the two out of 16 exceptions in our code. Those are the facts.

 

[Perth Red]

How much opposition does the AFL clubs in Perth have? No NRL club, no Super Union club, and A league club out of season.
Their stadium over there cost an absolute bomb.It might well be the same country, but it's a different city, and anyone with half a head of grey matter knows the sporting allegiances of Oz cities, are chalk and cheese.
As if NRL clubs have that luxury or the rl cities have that lack of competition,these AFL areas have.

That’s nobodies fault except RL’s. And yes they are factors but that wasn’t the question, the question was in what universe do footy clubs generate massive revenue for attendances. Well Adelaide, Brisbane, perth and Melbourne, looking likely parramatta and hopefully NQ universes that’s where. The One common factor? large capacity fit for purpose modern stadiums.

 

[Dark Corner]

I like being able to ride my bike to the games. It’s a concept you will never understand- enjoying a local facility.

The irony about PR Is that he is a passionate supporter of Hull KR. A team with more than a few parallels with the Sharks. Tiny area, small fan base, antiquated stadium. Trouble is; everything is looking up for the Sharks and they have enjoyed recent on field success where KR are f**ken shit and their future is tenuous.

It would be delicious if they were to slide into further irrelevance while their place is taken by The Wolfpack or Toulouse or the like.

8000 plus looks for better at Kingston Rovers then 12000 at Hull FC KCOM Stadium.

 

[taipan]

Any stadium without a grass hill is a modern stadium by comparison so again the fact is all the wealthiest nrl, afl, soccer, union and basketball clubs in the country play in modern large capacity mostly all seater venues. The lowest drawing clubs in our Comp and mostly the lest financially successful football club operations in the country are Sydney’s suburban clubs. Titans and knights being the two out of 16 exceptions in our code. Those are the facts.

They are still exceptions, meaning unless you have a new stadium that will draw the crowds ,it is throwing good money after bad.I wouldn't call GC Titans the wealthiest and you did state ALL.
Central Coast is a modern stadium ,with one end with no seating whatsoever .The Knights have two grassy ends in their stadium.
And union can't get the crowds at the modern stadiums.Those are also the facts.
And give Melbourne a few bad years ,and having a great stadium might mean SFA ,if fans are fed up with performances.

Every sane person wants an up to date stadiums, but the outer suburban stadiums for NRL will not be the 30-40k seat stadiums .Those clubs will improve facilities and bring them up to date, but that's the reality, and the sooner it sinks in with you the better.
And who is to say suburban NRL clubs won't function profit wise down the line.Not too many of the new stadiums have a Leagues club next door.

 

[taipan]

That’s nobodies fault except RL’s. And yes they are factors but that wasn’t the question, the question was in what universe do footy clubs generate massive revenue for attendances. Well Adelaide, Brisbane, perth and Melbourne, looking likely parramatta and hopefully NQ universes that’s where. The One common factor? large capacity fit for purpose modern stadiums.

It may not be part of your question, but its relevant. Because you live in this dream world that somehow the NRL is going to match AFL crowd wise,yet we cannot even do it in Brisbane.
Rugby league's fault that AFL is so dominant in the west? When SL came in ,then was knocked on the head,Perth fans dropped off in droves.
I often wonder if they'd been getting far bigger crowds ,they might never have been flicked.Even allowing for the costs of transport and accommodation being incurred.So in that Perth universe huge sums of money did not appear to be generated.

But of course the Reds wanted to get into the ARL ,were given the go ahead, then opted to go to SL.So blaming the RL for that, and agreeing to pay accommodation/transports for visiting teams.They have to take some blame.To say it's all the RL fault only ,is BS.

And huge sums of money have not been generated by GWS in terms of attendances ,and sponsorship.They have been propped up by the AFL.The Lions were getting sh*t crowds and losing money for a few years before this year.And the Suns also in an all seater stadiums are losing money and fans.Yet they have all seater modern stadiums.
Mate Melbourne got a front of jersey sponsor Purple Bricks, that lasted what a year-,and admitted getting sponsorship in AFL mad Melbourne is not an easy task.

 

[SBD82]

f**king hell its a punish reading Perth Red v Sharks fans.

 

[carcharias]

f**king hell its a punish reading Perth Red v Sharks fans.

Don’t blame me
I’ve got the f**king knob on ignore.
Have had for ages now.
Every one was complaining about me and him.
So I tried to do the right thing by the rest of the forum.
The constant repetitive shit was pissing people off.

Yet it’s must be still happening .
I don’t need anyone to tell me who all these other comments are directed at.

Maybe it was just him all along.

 

[Miller was a legend]

It may not be part of your question, but its relevant. Because you live in this dream world that somehow the NRL is going to match AFL crowd wise,yet we cannot even do it in Brisbane.
Rugby league's fault that AFL is so dominant in the west? When SL came in ,then was knocked on the head,Perth fans dropped off in droves.
I often wonder if they'd been getting far bigger crowds ,they might never have been flicked.Even allowing for the costs of transport and accommodation being incurred.So in that Perth universe huge sums of money did not appear to be generated.

But of course the Reds wanted to get into the ARL ,were given the go ahead, then opted to go to SL.So blaming the RL for that, and agreeing to pay accommodation/transports for visiting teams.They have to take some blame.To say it's all the RL fault only ,is BS.

And huge sums of money have not been generated by GWS in terms of attendances ,and sponsorship.They have been propped up by the AFL.The Lions were getting sh*t crowds and losing money for a few years before this year.And the Suns also in an all seater stadiums are losing money and fans.Yet they have all seater modern stadiums.
Mate Melbourne got a front of jersey sponsor Purple Bricks, that lasted what a year-,and admitted getting sponsorship in AFL mad Melbourne is not an easy task.

I am really starting to wonder why you bother with this bloke

 

[Frank Discussion]

f**king hell its a punish reading Perth Red v Sharks fans.

Guilty. I gave him a window into how the decision making is made at executive level and he still just wants to argue the same old point and rely on the same old speculation.

 

[Generalzod]

I am really starting to wonder why you bother with this bloke

Miserable personified..

 

[taipan]

Yep I think it's time I put the debating cue in the rack.I have wasted too much"ink" responding to him,I'm beginning to whine.

 

[carcharias]

Yep I think it's time I put the debating cue in the rack.I have wasted too much"ink" responding to him,I'm beginning to whine.

Mate
This is without me even reading his responses.
Everyone can see the points you’ve made are completely valid.
You’ve even given the bloke a fair go.

Frank has a bloody podcast on the club and has interviewed the bosses of the sharks over many years now .
He has even seen the plans of the clubs development.
Plans that nobody in the public has been lucky enough to view.


But it appears he just ignores what ever facts are put in front of him.

Ignore him.
It is the only option for a bloke who is so f**king hung up on our club it’s not funny.
It can’t be healthy for him.

 

[TheFrog]

I also believe Parramatta will be the next financially strong club, and pro rata their fans are more passionate in attending than the Broncos.

Even in the Cumberland Oval days Parramatta's crowds were noisy. They had big crowds when the previous stadium was built too, along with on-field success. If they can continue to do well on the field they'll get crowds at the new stadium. But when they don't, it will be back to before. The way they are buying players makes me think they haven't learnt a damn thing.

 

[carcharias]

Even in the Cumberland Oval days Parramatta's crowds were noisy. They had big crowds when the previous stadium was built too, along with on-field success. If they can continue to do well on the field they'll get crowds at the new stadium. But when they don't, it will be back to before. The way they are buying players makes me think they haven't learnt a damn thing.

That’s it
The team performs well and people will show up.
It doesn’t really matter if it’s a brand new stadium or a classic old ground.

Obviously big rival games will get better crowds.