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Captain's challenge system

El Diablo

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http://www.nrl.com/captains-challen...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

'Captains Challenge' to be trialled in NYC

NRL.com Tue, Aug 14, 2012 - 8:17 PM

The ARLC Competition Committee has supported a trial of a Captain’s ‘on-field’ challenge at Toyota Cup level this year.

The Committee which included ARLC General Manager of Football Nathan McGuirk, ARL Commissioner Wayne Pearce, NRL coaches Brian Smith and Ivan Cleary, former coaches Daniel Anderson and John Lang and former Broncos Test Captain Darren Lockyer said the trial should be viewed as an exploratory exercise only at this stage.

“The idea of on-field challenges has been discussed for a number of years and this is a chance to test how a system might work,” Mr McGuirk said.

“The biggest difficulties lie in ensuring that flow of the game is maintained.

“The trial we discussed today involves a team having a limit of one ‘incorrect’ challenge in each half (there is no limit on the number of successful challenges).”

A sub-committee chaired by referees coach Stuart Raper and including full time match officials and referees coaching staff has recommended that areas of ‘challenge’ are limited to:

- A loss of possession (knock-on or strip) that leads to a ‘structured’ re-start (scrum or penalty)
- A decision that led to the ball going into ‘touch’ or ‘touch-in goal’
- Any decision involving try, no-try or point scoring decisions made by on-field officials that were not previously referred to the video-referee.
- A mandatory penalty (such as a member of the team in possession being off side and restart infringements).

Decisions involving discretionary penalties such as forward passes, 10m penalties, scrums and play the ball offences would not be subject to challenge.

“The more you look at this the more it becomes important to limit the number of potential interruptions to the game,” Mr Raper said.

“The flow of the game is an essential part of Rugby League and as much as we want to do everything we can to get the maximum number of decisions correct you have to avoid opening the game up to too many stoppages.

“No matter what happens there are always going to be arguments about actual decisions particularly at this time of year.

“This is about looking at the ways that we can reduce those arguments without affecting the game.”

The Committee today was also strongly of the view that the parameters under which a challenge could be made needed to be restricted.

While they believed it was worth experimenting with the concept to test how models may work there was a strong belief that it would not be possible to look at such a significant change in the context of next season’s Telstra Premiership.

“We have identified a Toyota Cup match in round 26 between the Titans and the Sea Eagles and that will give us an opportunity to see a challenge system in action,” Mr McGuirk said.

“It is a long way from moving to anything further but it does give clubs and fans a chance to see how a system may work.”

The Competition Committee also today received a briefing on the research being carried out in relation to the use of the ‘shoulder charge’ in Rugby League.

Further analysis is underway and a report will be prepared for the Commission later this year.
 

juanfarkall

Coach
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10,071
so a new system because referees and the dickheads who administer them (Harrigant & Roper) are incompetent ?
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
No. It's a new system because they are human who don't have access to several different angles and unlimited replays.

Numbnuts.
 

B-Tron 3000

Juniors
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1,803
A sub-committee chaired by referees coach Stuart Raper and including full time match officials and referees coaching staff has recommended that areas of ‘challenge’ are limited to:

- A loss of possession (knock-on or strip) that leads to a ‘structured’ re-start (scrum or penalty)
- A decision that led to the ball going into ‘touch’ or ‘touch-in goal’
- Any decision involving try, no-try or point scoring decisions made by on-field officials that were not previously referred to the video-referee.
- A mandatory penalty (such as a member of the team in possession being off side and restart infringements).

How the hell is a coach's challenge going to help if they leave the regular video ref process in place? That doesnt solve any of the current video ref problems!!

f**k me these guys do things arse up every time. Just like the addition of the second ref they will f**k up the application of what was a good idea in theory and it will improve nothing. Hanscholo is right, the system is completely broken.

Let me identify my main complaint here:

“The idea of on-field challenges has been discussed for a number of years and this is a chance to test how a system might work,” Mr McGuirk said.
If it has been discussed for a number of years then what the are main reasons for trialling it now? What exactly are you testing?

They have said nothing about why this is needed. If you can't identify the specific areas that you are trying to fix then how can you fix them?

All we are left with from these comments is the feeling that the refs need more chances to get things right.


For me, there are two main reasons why a Challenge system needs to be put in place:

1. When we go to the video ref no-one has any idea which way the call is going to go. This has led to too many controversial calls as well as the introduction of the artificial "benefit of the doubt" call - another knee jerk reaction that makes no sense - and situations where dodgy tries are now being given.

2. The refs have stopped making calls and are relying on the video, which often then shows up to be inconclusive, leading to point 1.


So, if these were the things that the Rugby League is trying to avoid - but we have no idea if they are as they haven't told us a f**king thing - then the logical conclusion would lead to scrapping the "regular" video ref altogether, forcing the on-field ref to make a decision, and then any "coach's or captain's challenge" is only successful when the on-field call is PROVEN incorrect without a shadow of a doubt.

This does a number of things: forces the refs to make a call; eradicates doubt as to what the outcome will be when it goes to the video (it will be the on-field call unless proven otherwise); and means that there will be less complaints because if the video can't prove the ref was wrong then we all have to accept the original call.

All in all, this reduces the pressure on the refs (which is surely part of the problem) and over time they will get better at making correct on-field calls, as they are forced to do it.

On top of that, fans get to celebrate the original call instead of that weird anti-climactic wait. And old-timers that want to go back to the ref making the call also get their way, in a way.

This current idea of giving the coach an option of reviewing if the video hasn't been used does not address the issue of "BOD" or what happens if the video ref doesn't have decent enough evidence. It leaves in all the problems of the current review system and just adds another layer of crap to it.

Please oh please hurry up with the new CEO so they can put a broom through the NRL staff. There are a zillion people who could do a better job at running the game than the current muppets.
 

counterpuncher

Juniors
Messages
380
the challenge in the NFL is used sparingly as there is the possibility of being punished by loss of a timeout for making the wrong call. ensures they are only used when certain of a dodgy call or extremely desperate.

NRL coaches wasting time and only losing one of their challenges seems pointless. How about losing a player for 2 minutes for an unsuccessful challenge?
 

LineBall

Juniors
Messages
1,719
The only thing I would change from the criteria they have set out to trial the Challenge, is that they should not use the video ref at all, unless a challenge is called.

Video ref would be best used as in Tennis or Cricket, and is only utilised when the players ask for a decision to be reviewed, while the umpires/referees call it as they see it and allow the game to flow more.
 

firechild

First Grade
Messages
8,068
The only thing I would change from the criteria they have set out to trial the Challenge, is that they should not use the video ref at all, unless a challenge is called.

Video ref would be best used as in Tennis or Cricket, and is only utilised when the players ask for a decision to be reviewed, while the umpires/referees call it as they see it and allow the game to flow more.

You don't watch cricket do you?

Umpires have the ability to refer to the 3rd umpire if they are unsure of a decision. Most commonly of late, they have been asking for the 3rd umpire to check no balls when players are caught. This is not something that the captains have asked to be refered. They also often refer to the 3rd umpire for run-outs, again, not at the request of the players.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
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61,174
Coach has 2 challenges left up his sleeve with 2 minutes to go. His team holds a slender lead but is being smashed physically and are desperately defending their own line. They need a break.

What happens next?

Defender tackles someone - CHALLENGE THAT CALL! - Video ref looks at it... um nothing wrong with that call x 2


edit: answered above
that scenario wont be allowed
 
Last edited:

jimmythehand

Juniors
Messages
2,071
gosh everything anyone comes up with just introduces new dilemmas doesn't it.

How about we just get rid of replays altogether, so that no-one ever knows if the ref was right or wrong?

if you've already used all your interchanges, what's the punishment?

I kind of like what they're doing with the trial and the restrictions they've put on it - but why can't you challenge play the ball calls? Ref's get heaps of these wrong (did the player drop the ball, did it hit someone's foot, did someone push someone).
 

Raider_69

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much like the NFL system, once you run out of interchanges/time outs, you can no longer make a challenge, so its important to use both challenges and interchanges with the understanding that one effects the other.
 

carlosthedwarf

First Grade
Messages
8,189
“The trial we discussed today involves a team having a limit of one ‘incorrect’ challenge in each half (there is no limit on the number of successful challenges).”

So, theoretically a team could have 10 challenges a half if they're all correct?

I do like the one incorrect challenge per half, but not limiting the total number of challenges is ridiculous. It could add half an hour to some games
 

El Diablo

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So, theoretically a team could have 10 challenges a half if they're all correct?

I do like the one incorrect challenge per half, but not limiting the total number of challenges is ridiculous. It could add half an hour to some games

then referees need to improve
 

Perth Red

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70,264
The game survived 90 years with one ref, two touchies and that was it! Sometime technology isn't a good thing if used stupidly!

I'm quite happy to see one ref, video ref only used in the act of scoring a try and nothing else. TV to cut out showing 15 replays and disecting every decision and lets just get on watching and enjoying the game. We do create a massive rod for our own backs sometimes!

I've said it before but watch the Chooseday night games and how much better they are for not seeing a replay of every mistake and every ref decision and the commentator barely mentioning the decision if they think it was right or not. Commentators need to stop thinking they are opinion columnists!
 

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