CC Bears Should take Legal Action

[little_aza]

Estoppel? Deceit?

I didn't think of estoppel before, so I went back and had a look at my notes on it from last year. For all those who don't care about the legal side of things, skip this post...for those who do, this is a brief version of how to answer a problem in law school, applied in this situation to the Bears...

Citing the doctrine of estoppel would be the closest thing the Bears would have legally. The three basic legal elements of estoppel are:
1. An assumption
2. Inducement
3. Detrimental reliance

Firstly, Assumption: The NRL were going to admit 14 teams in 2000. The Bears were of the assumption that the NRL would select the 14 most successful bids for admittance in the 2000 competition, based on a range of criteria.

Secondly, inducement: there has to be a casual link between the conduct of the representor and the detriment suffered by the representee. The Bears went to Gosford and spent a lot of money on setting up at Bluetongue in order to be one of the clubs set to be admitted in the NRL in 2000. However, the key thing here is that they did this in the hope that they would be admitted - no one ever promised that they would definitely be one of the 14 selected for the 2000 NRL competition; and according to the NRL, they weren't one of the 14 best bids.

Thirdly, detrimental reliance: while there is a situation of wasted expenditure due to a reliance on the NRL by the Bears that they would be admitted to the NRL in 2000, this reliance is deemed to be unreasonable. This is so due to the reliance being based on mere chance or hope that their bid would be one of the 14 successful bids. Hence, while there is loss due to the NRL's statements, there is no reasonable reliance upon them.

So in conclusion, the Bears (I believe) would be unsuccessful in arguing a case of estoppel.



And when you say 'deceit' Alan, how do you mean? There are many forms of contractual 'deceit': a situation of unconscionable conduct, or misrepresentation, or...?

 

[flippikat]

Coudnt agree more...

I think the Bears names & colours being associated with a new team from SEQ would be a great compromise... They would still get to play in Sydney at least half a dozen times a year...

The Bears fans obviously think that 100% of nothing is better than 50% of something...

Luckily the IC will be making expansion decisions based on purely businesss reasons and not tyring to right any perceived injustices from 12 years before their time...

It would solve 2 problems in 1 stroke - the Bears brand returns to the NRL, and SE Qld gets another team - but it raises even more.

Given that the Bears have worked for more than a decade on the Central Coast move, how would the community there react to being abandoned all of a sudden?? (Not well, I think)

And given that scenario, the only choices they'd have would be trying to lure another Sydney team to Gosford (a tough one), or starting all over and trying to enter the NRL with their own brand - and without the connections that the old North Sydney Bears brand brought to the current bid - from old fans to sponsors to former staff & players. (again, not easy).

Would they even bother trying to start again after a decade of stalling from the NRL?

 

[Spanner in the works]

two points;
1. poorly located? The Bears were the only club who agreed to get a regional licence and relocate to gosford thus bring both regions to the NRL. It has always been perfectly located for these purposes. Great work trying to rewrite demographics, you clown.
2. Being a journalist nowadays is not a profession that carries any weight - especially if you work for such quality organisations like News Limited. So - to hear your expertise on broadcasting reach is laughable.

Yes. Poorly located. I've being a journo for 30+ years and seen executives, business plans and the like come and go. But the one consistent thing is audience reach. Print, radio, TV - you name it they all need it. When TV deals are our single biggest form of income, it carries a lot of weight. He who pays the most runs the game. Let me pose this question to you? If the NRL ran the game, do you think they would continue to allow WA and Victoria to have such poor TV coverage? Wouldn't they step in?

 

[RHCP]

It's simple. the "game" has f**ked us over for 11 years - so legal action would be payback time.

If the Bears get rorted again like we did 5 years ago, then we're gone.

the Beasr were made sacrifical lambs for NRL and News limited who needed to cull team quickly before the criteria. There were 2 big differences in the situations.

Souths were never given a promise or a regional licence. the Bears were.

Souths board combined with members and supporters to fight for reinstatement. The Bears board and management, in a complete shock move to everyone, voted in secret to put the bears into administration as 'likely to be insolvent" - which was complete rubbish. It alos happened just before teh "criteria' decisions were to be made. Conincidence eh?

Clearly there were Bears management who liked the idea of a Norths/Manly powerhouse - BUT members and supporters had vetoed this often in the weeks and months preceding.

It was a rort.

I thought this was a Central Coast team, not a Sydney one?

 

[Beowulf]

Woh woh woh... Slow down there. So your saying that no matter how much "need" an expansion team has - from groundswell support from fans in the area - if doesn't add enough value to the sport there shouldn't be expansion there???

So that's why the AFL put a team in it's biggest heartland, Tasmainia, where 15% of the entire popultation tune into each each on average, making it the biggest heartland state of any sport in this country. Oh wait....:sarcasm:

Great timing. The AFL is today talking about the next 2 franchises for AFL going to Perth and Tasmania. Here come the Bears!

 

[The Engineers Room]

I think adding two teams and having Central Coast as one is the best way forward. The other needs to be either another SEQLD team or Perth.

Split the teams into two pools of 9 (which stay the same each year) and play your own pool twice and the other once.

The 9 Sydney based clubs in one and the current other 7 plus the two new ones in the other pool.

Finals would be the same except at least two teams from each pool must be in the top 8.

Then I would rearrange the NSW cup and Qld Cup so that they would be a full second division and any new teams wanting to join the NRL must prove themselves in this division first.

Have NRL licences come up every 3-5 years and all teams that want entry need to apply and are assessed on crowd numbers/memberships, TV ratings, administration/finances and on field performances in a system that is independently audited. Regional areas are given an advantage. What would eventually happen is as new teams come into being they would be able to move into the NRL and allow a truly national competition.

The NSW Cup/Qld Cup issue could be solved by having them play all the teams in their comp once then a road trip by the QLD teams followed by the teams playing their own comp all again and the return leg when NSW goes to Qld. A finals system where the top NSW team plays the top Qld team on GF day is the desired result.

Legs would be 4 weeks and a system to decide who plays who would need to be worked out.

 

[applesauce]

Great timing. The AFL is today talking about the next 2 franchises for AFL going to Perth and Tasmania. Here come the Bears!

Exactly. The following teams after our next expansion round (2017-2020) should be the CC and NZ2. Let these areas grow further before placing a team there.

If a Sydney team falls over in the mean time the Bears are back up, and should that happen Adelaide and PNG come into the mix for the 2017-2020 expansion.

May you please link the article for me please???

 

[clarency]

AFL are talking about expansion again... before the second team even comes into place???

I want to think they are just complete idiots but frankly, if they gathered such a mighty TV deal there must be something to it.

 

[BDGS]

yeah it will work right until their teams start failing, oh wait, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and Sydney already are!

 

[Perth Red]

There's been talk of a third AFL team in Perth for some time, based in the Northern Suburbs (Joondalup). Doubt it will happen for at least 15-20 years though. Hopefully NRL won't miss the boat again in the mean time!

 

[SingleSpeed73]

blame super league and all the scum clubs that joined it for getting rid of a foundation club like Norffs.

Agreed, and contrary to what the ever brainless Rockin Ronny thinks, Manly Weren't to blame

 

[bobmar28]

The best part about his bid is how it's only a North Sydney bid when it suits them. Whenever somebody even begins to say the word 'nine', they distance themselves as far away from Sydney and the Bears as possible.

But in all seriousness, the fact the Central Coast doesn't have a team is an absolute farce. NSW is the heart of rugby league and expansion is secondary to making sure ever man in this great state can stand on a hill and say 'That's my team, the one getting beaten 30-0'. The Central Coast is an isolated area. It takes an hour or less (Did you get that? AN HOUR) to get there from Newcastle, and well if you wanted to go down to Sydney it's simply excruciating. Often it can be upwards of 60 minutes.

The AFL is swiftly encroaching on this great rugby league heartland. There's bucketloads of talent, but they have no pathways. They can't play SG Ball or Harold Matthews, the closest teams are...well they're in the Central Coast, but still. The travel time needed to scout CC talent is just ludicrous, even for Manly or Newcastle. Soon all these players will be lost to the all powerful GWS, and rugby league will lose these beautiful heartland area it never cared about in the first place, giving AFL a knockout blow to the NRL.

So please David Gallop, listen to the people and admit the Central Coast, because the NRL is nothing without them.

:lol:

 

[Rockin Ronny]

Yes. Poorly located. I've being a journo for 30+ years and seen executives, business plans and the like come and go. But the one consistent thing is audience reach. Print, radio, TV - you name it they all need it. When TV deals are our single biggest form of income, it carries a lot of weight. He who pays the most runs the game. Let me pose this question to you? If the NRL ran the game, do you think they would continue to allow WA and Victoria to have such poor TV coverage? Wouldn't they step in?

So - just over 10 years ago, when TV rights were still a crucial part of the game, the NRL considerd a team in Gosford as critical - the first prioirty for getting a new team into the game. This is why the NRL promised the Bears a regional licence (a guaranteed spot in the NRL at criteria time).

but now - according to you - a few short years later - this demographic has completely about-faced and the central coast (plus north shore) has no noticeable effect on TV deals.

See - to now say that it's "poorly located" makes you sound like just another two-faced, untrustworthy, B-Grade News Limited journalist that we all know so well.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

Agreed, and contrary to what the ever brainless Rockin Ronny thinks, Manly Weren't to blame

Oh - that's right, Einstein.
Without Arko, you would have been gone in 2 seconds under the criteria.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

Secondly, inducement: there has to be a casual link between the conduct of the representor and the detriment suffered by the representee. The Bears went to Gosford and spent a lot of money on setting up at Bluetongue in order to be one of the clubs set to be admitted in the NRL in 2000. However, the key thing here is that they did this in the hope that they would be admitted - no one ever promised that they would definitely be one of the 14 selected for the 2000 NRL competition; and according to the NRL, they weren't one of the 14 best bids.

Seriously, a lot of people in rugby league are not that smart. But - to suggest that the Bears put in millions of dollars (combined with the federal government) to build Gosford Stadium, set up offices there etc - then sat back and hoped to get a licence is ridiculous. Although, I can imagine News Limited 'journos" would like to rewrite history.

To say that CC Bears team with Gosford stadium and support from 2 great rugby league regions etc woud NOT be one of the best 14 is simply dishonest at best - laughable at worst.

You're saying that the CC Bears woud be inferior to such financial powerhouses as Newcastle, Manly and "wait for the big development approval" Cronulla.

NOTE: under the Trade Practices ACt, from memory, actions for misleading and deceptive conduct are not subject to the statute of limitations. there would also be a myriad of associated actions such as inducement to breach existing legal contracta.

 

[Frailty]

Seriously, a lot of people in rugby league are not that smart. But - to suggest that the Bears put in millions of dollars (combined with the federal government) to build Gosford Stadium, set up offices there etc - then sat back and hoped to get a licence is ridiculous. Although, I can imagine News Limited 'journos" would like to rewrite history.

To say that CC Bears team with Gosford stadium and support from 2 great rugby league regions etc woud NOT be one of the best 14 is simply dishonest at best - laughable at worst.

You're saying that the CC Bears woud be inferior to such financial powerhouses as Newcastle, Manly and "wait for the big development approval" Cronulla.

NOTE: under the Trade Practices ACt, from memory, actions for misleading and deceptive conduct are not subject to the statute of limitations. there would also be a myriad of associated actions such as inducement to breach existing legal contracta.

You make the claim that Norths were 'promised' a licence, but there is no evidence of this, except for Norths fans.

Newcastle were regional licence - being 2.5 hours away from Sydney helped. Manly were struggling and thus the joint venture of the Northern Eagles existed. The Sharks were financially strong at this point of time having money from the Super League era - and due to the fact that clubs such as St George, Illawarra, Western Suburbs, and Balmain had already merged Cronulla was left with little competition to survive. Cronulla's management after this period has seen them struggle to where they are now.

Norths, nor any club, have a 'right' to be in the NRL. A lot of dodgy things went down during this period - no doubt. If Norths genuinely felt they had a legal case they would have pushed it earlier - but they knew they had no grounds.

Souths thought they did and thus pursued with it. They were successful in getting the club back into the NRL - but ultimately the case ended up in favour of the NRL after the appeal of the overturned decision. This essentially ruled out any further action by any of the defunct clubs.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

You make the claim that Norths were 'promised' a licence, but there is no evidence of this, except for Norths fans.

Newcastle were regional licence - being 2.5 hours away from Sydney helped. Manly were struggling and thus the joint venture of the Northern Eagles existed. The Sharks were financially strong at this point of time having money from the Super League era - and due to the fact that clubs such as St George, Illawarra, Western Suburbs, and Balmain had already merged Cronulla was left with little competition to survive. Cronulla's management after this period has seen them struggle to where they are now.

Norths, nor any club, have a 'right' to be in the NRL. A lot of dodgy things went down during this period - no doubt. If Norths genuinely felt they had a legal case they would have pushed it earlier - but they knew they had no grounds.

Souths thought they did and thus pursued with it. They were successful in getting the club back into the NRL - but ultimately the case ended up in favour of the NRL after the appeal of the overturned decision. This essentially ruled out any further action by any of the defunct clubs.

Please explain. What "dodgy" things?

 

[Perth Red]

What is sad and frustrating is that if the NRL had more vision and long term strategy they could have said to the Nth Sydney Bears after there last failed attempt that they should look to Q'land to relocate and forget Gosford, given them an assurance that if they ticked the boxes in Q'land they would def get a spot next time and left Gosford for a relocation of an existing club if it was ever needed.

When you look at the long term planning of the AFL to become a national sport and the NRL's they are chalk and cheese. In 2008 when the game was clearly getting back to strength they should have been priming Perth, getting Nth Sydney to move to Q'land and announcing in 2010 that these would be the next two teams in the NRL when it expanded in 2013. Oh well I guess we will be saddled with 5hit administration forever?

 

[Beowulf]

Exactly. The following teams after our next expansion round (2017-2020) should be the CC and NZ2. Let these areas grow further before placing a team there.

If a Sydney team falls over in the mean time the Bears are back up, and should that happen Adelaide and PNG come into the mix for the 2017-2020 expansion.

May you please link the article for me please???

Wish I could mate, just heard it on a radio grab, but found this after searching....a month or so old however.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...t-aurora-stadium/story-e6frf3e3-1226062884890

 

[Spanner in the works]

So - just over 10 years ago, when TV rights were still a crucial part of the game, the NRL considerd a team in Gosford as critical - the first prioirty for getting a new team into the game. This is why the NRL promised the Bears a regional licence (a guaranteed spot in the NRL at criteria time).

but now - according to you - a few short years later - this demographic has completely about-faced and the central coast (plus north shore) has no noticeable effect on TV deals.

See - to now say that it's "poorly located" makes you sound like just another two-faced, untrustworthy, B-Grade News Limited journalist that we all know so well.

Yes. It has changed. Ten years is a long time. And I have never worked for News Limited. I refuse to.