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Central Coast Bears, 2013.

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Red&BlackBear

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New-club hopefuls look for direction
Stuart Honeysett and Peter Kogoy
August 23, 2012 12:00AM

THE consortiums lobbying to become the NRL's 17th and 18th teams have called on the ARL Commission to make a decision on expansion now the $1 billion broadcast deal is out of the way.
The prospects for expansion took a nosedive on Tuesday with both commission chairman John Grant and Nine Network head David Gyngell questioning the value of having an extra game for either the networks or the competition.

With Nine and Fox Sports securing the media rights for five years and the commission focused on making sure the 16 existing NRL clubs are financially viable, it means any plans to expand the competition are almost certainly on hold until 2018.

That could be unfavourable for the consortiums already lining up to share in the game's spoils, including West Coast Pirates, Central Coast Bears, Brisbane Bombers, Central Queensland and Ipswich.
West Coast chief executive John Sackson said yesterday he was hopeful the commission may announce a decision on expansion before the end of next month, because it was important they all had some direction of where the game is going.

"We're delighted for that outstanding deal to be done, which is going to benefit the code significantly, but we're anxiously awaiting the view of the ARL Commission's vision for the game," he said.
"It's very important for all of the contenders to know where they stand. The waiting game and the uncertainty can't continue indefinitely.

"We know that all of the contenders have been spending money and resources in putting forward their credentials over the years.

"There is the expectation there, sooner or later, that the commission should signal to the interested markets what the future holds."

Central Coast chief executive Greg Florimo agreed and said the Bears wouldn't be disheartened by Grant's comments.

"We're not closing the door on the Bears' push to be considered for inclusion in any expanded competition down the road," he said.

"We will only ramp up our lobbying efforts with the commission now the new media deal has been announced. We still want to be a voice to be reckoned with."


Former ARL chief executive John Quayle, the architect behind the code's expansion 20 years ago, said he agreed with the commission's plans to consolidate its position but warned that the AFL was moving quickly.

"Rugby league could learn from the way in which the AFL has gone about its expansion plan in western Sydney," he said.

"They realised it would take more than one or two years for GWS to establish a foothold, let alone to win games.

"The AFL are looking 10 years ahead."
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/sport...ok-for-direction/story-fnca0von-1226456123885

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Perth Red

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With Singleton pulling the plug where does that leave the bid. That's both rich backers gone. Best hope would be the Arlc taking over the lease on bluetongue.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
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Thing is that Singleton pulled the plug 6 months ago...


While he decided not to renew about six months ago - well before the ARL Commission finalised the broadcast deal which effectively put expansion on the backburner - he was disappointed networks couldn't see the value in adding a central coast franchise.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...from-league-20120825-24t71.html#ixzz24h1Bk6to

Thing that really annoys me about the Central Coast Bears bid is typified by Roz ( who I have said before that I admire for her tireless work on the Bears campaign) who rang 2KY yesterday whinging about how the whole Central Coast area will now be lost to soccer..

Jimmy Smith said something along the lines of - "what about another team relocating to Central Coast", and basically Roz said no - its the Bears or nothing...

You cant use arguments about the whole area being lost to other codes when its obvious that you care more about the Bears than the sport of Rugby League...
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
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With Singleton pulling the plug where does that leave the bid. That's both rich backers gone. Best hope would be the Arlc taking over the lease on bluetongue.

The bid was never going to be a majority privately owned bid, it was always intended to be a community owned model like the NQCowboys. Singleton has already poured money into the bid, now we shake hands and look forward to further plan new avenues with new people on board. With increased likelihood that Norths group will takeover the Bluetongue lease.

This bid is for the fans, it was never for some rich buggers to have a dabble with. It's quite obvious where we stand.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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With Singleton pulling the plug where does that leave the bid. That's both rich backers gone. Best hope would be the Arlc taking over the lease on bluetongue.
Norths have first right of refusal over the playing rights and are cashed up and as Red&BlackBear says now we will truly be a community model and get our stadium back - thats IF Singo pulls the pin on his Bluetongue investment.

Certainly there's no shortage of backers upon license grant, hence Singo isn't necessary to the bid - in fact, if Norths own the playing rights 100% we present a more stable option in many peoples opinion - back to where we were in 1999 but more money. The NRL's dislike of the two backers you allude to is well known....

We just need an opportunity to present the bid, same as the other bidders!
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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720
Thing is that Singleton pulled the plug 6 months ago...




Thing that really annoys me about the Central Coast Bears bid is typified by Roz ( who I have said before that I admire for her tireless work on the Bears campaign) who rang 2KY yesterday whinging about how the whole Central Coast area will now be lost to soccer..

Jimmy Smith said something along the lines of - "what about another team relocating to Central Coast", and basically Roz said no - its the Bears or nothing...


You cant use arguments about the whole area being lost to other codes when its obvious that you care more about the Bears than the sport of Rugby League...
Ros is entitled to vent - she spends every weekend volunteering on North Sydney Bears stands, Central Coast membership drives, attending Men in League functions, contacting media etc etc etc etc all for nothing and has for over 10 year now. Losing her would be a tragedy for the game, but the NRL doesn't deserve the support of clubs or volunteers who have been treated like we have.

She's right about another team relocating - Gallop anyway said it couldn't happen, as the only reason you would have a CC team in was so it could reconnect with those lost when the Bears were punted - thats the main point of differentiation from other bids - we are instantly supported and sustainable.

Looking in isolation, a 300K population with only light industry is unsustainable - it would be behind WA, Bris2/Ipswich, Rocky, NZ2 and maybe even Adelaide in the pecking order. Add the Bear connection however and you get many large corporates on the northside who only want to sponsor the Bears (and have signed letters of intent to this effect, even in this global market).

A relocated team, say Sharks (it can't be Manly for obvious historical reasons) would have a team people care far less about than they would the Bears, Cronulla fans wouldn't travel to bluetongue every 2nd week, sponsors on the north shore would have no interest, local Shire businesses would have less reason to be supportive and RL fans on the north shore would have no interest. Pretty dumb suggestion from Jimmy Smith if he made it.
 

Perth Red

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Norths have first right of refusal over the playing rights and are cashed up and as Red&BlackBear says now we will truly be a community model and get our stadium back - thats IF Singo pulls the pin on his Bluetongue investment.

Certainly there's no shortage of backers upon license grant, hence Singo isn't necessary to the bid - in fact, if Norths own the playing rights 100% we present a more stable option in many peoples opinion - back to where we were in 1999 but more money. The NRL's dislike of the two backers you allude to is well known....

We just need an opportunity to present the bid, same as the other bidders!

Do you have exclusivity of use or just first right of use? How does that fit with lease of the ground. Who actually owns the ground?
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
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A relocated team, say Sharks (it can't be Manly for obvious historical reasons) would have a team people care far less about than they would the Bears, Cronulla fans wouldn't travel to bluetongue every 2nd week, sponsors on the north shore would have no interest, local Shire businesses would have less reason to be supportive and RL fans on the north shore would have no interest. Pretty dumb suggestion from Jimmy Smith if he made it.

The issue is though, if you use the argument about "the Central Coast being lost to other codes", then you should accept that a relocated team should be an option in preference to no team at all. The Bears fans that use this argument wont agree to this though, because lets be honest, they would rather have no team then to have the Skarks, or another team relocate there - do you agree?

As I have mentioned before, I believe that the Bears should be talking to the possible new SEQ team about being branded the Bears - the tradition would live on and they would play 6 or so games a year in Sydney...Seems to work for the Swans and Lions in the other code...
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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720
Do you have exclusivity of use or just first right of use? How does that fit with lease of the ground. Who actually owns the ground?
To be fair we just have first right of use...we still own 20% of the playing rights for another 10 years - no team can play out of there aside from the Bears, unless we were to receive a decent pay out, of course. Given the fact that would substantially increase the cost of a relocated/new team on the Coast other than the Bears, its easy to see why it wouldn't be worth establishing any team other than the Bears on the coast in the next 10 years.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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720
The issue is though, if you use the argument about "the Central Coast being lost to other codes", then you should accept that a relocated team should be an option in preference to no team at all. The Bears fans that use this argument wont agree to this though, because lets be honest, they would rather have no team then to have the Skarks, or another team relocate there - do you agree?

As I have mentioned before, I believe that the Bears should be talking to the possible new SEQ team about being branded the Bears - the tradition would live on and they would play 6 or so games a year in Sydney...Seems to work for the Swans and Lions in the other code...

No doubt another team would be an option, but as I point out in a reply to Perth Red above, the cost of paying us out of the playing rights on top of establishing a team there that would have little support when compared with the Bears means a relocation/greenfield team would have a lower cost/benefit than simply introducing the Bears. I have no doubt a large number of people on the coast in a perfect world would prefer a CC United team iso the Bears...but they would prefer the Bears who have made such a committment and investment over 15 years there to a blow-in relocation.

Re your second point, lets play devils advocate and worst case scenario for the Bears lets say Grant tells Flo end of this years I'm sorry, the CC is not part of our strategic plan going forward. It would be incredible if Grant didn't want to keep a viable heritage brand alive, as you say like the Swans. Makes no sense to kill the Bears if there are strategic areas they have identified that don't have the club experience, brand, supporter base etc the Bears could command in particularly NSW and QLD. I note a large % of our supporters come from QLD, a relic of our good years 91-98 when half the team at times were QLDers. So I agree QLD would be the logical place IF the CC was deemed off the radar. Then it comes down to SEQ out of Suncorp or CQ....I think more travelling fans from Sydney would attend the Suncorp games, so that would be the more logical (though half the CQ bid involves ex Bears). Even call them the East Coast Bears perhaps. Personally, it would be more palatable than having no Bears, and I would support them and watch their Sydney games...and continue to watch NRL for that matter, but only if the NS Bears remained a feeder club, they based themselves in the NS district and visited schools/clubs etc when in town, open training sessions etc and they played a game at NS oval every year.

Hopefully it won't come to that - I'm still pretty hopeful there will be expansion and that the Bears model is the lowest cost model that targets heartland areas.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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Outstanding results for the RLW fan poll, which was nationwide....
Should the NRL expand? yes - 92%
Where? CC 46%, perth 29%, CQ 13%, brisbane Bombers 5%, Wellington 3%, PNG 2%, western corridor 2%.
Favourite ground? Bluetongue 26%, Suncorp 21%, rest below 10%.

Combined with the News Ltd poll, at least the fans opinion is clear...CC and Perth. And Bluetongue deservedly ranked best ground to watch footy at - along with Suncorp.

Lets see now if the ARLC listen/care about their customers......I know polls don't mean much but I'd rather be dominating them than not!
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
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5,425
It seems without a doubt that Central Coast, Perth and Central Queenslnd should be the next 3 expansion destinations. The underwhelming Brisbane 2/SEQLD results in each and every poll must mean something. The people/fans aren't interested.
 

gyallop

Juniors
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551
All the polls mean is that it represents the opinion of those who voted. Blue Tongue outrating Suncorp , Rabbitohs out rating Broncos NSW winning an origin series in 5 years at 92% says it all.

No disrepect to CC but they should take any comfort from this blatantly NSW based poll
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
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5,425
Favourite ground Bluetongue, favourite expansion CC. lol, somehat biased sample grouping me thinks :)

The Central Coast has won about 95% of polls regarding expansion and bluetongue is always up there as a stadium. Once again this isn't a bid where members are writing their own exclusives everyday, or a bid that has 3 Internet fans parading them. This is genuine core community support and it has been like that since this bid started. Why people keep taking swipes at their credibility still is beyond me. My answer? Let other bids build their fan base up more and they'll be winning surveys, polls etc.
 
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Red&BlackBear

First Grade
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What was last weeks Telegraph result? ;)

Hence why I said 95% and even then there was 1% in it. Big difference is while DT can be used in a Sydney/NSW based argument (even though Herald and Courier are the same thing basically), RLW is a national rugby league magazine.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
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and the numerous polls on here? ;)
You're kidding if you think this site is representative of the RL viewing public! The News and RLW polls at least are of sample sizes that eliminate some bias. prob still a fair margin for error, but the News one was 22,000! Compare this with what, 50 on League Unlimited polls!!!!

Even with some multiple voting irregularities, you couldn't imagine it would skew the data by more than a few % on that sample size. shows CC and WA are the peoples choice...or do you dispute that WA should have polled so highly????!!! You've had great media lately, and its reflected in that poll. Compare that with the great media Bombers got a year ago and they went....nowhere.

The only teams people want are Bears, then WA, with CQ 3rd and the others have no traction. That cannot be disputed. All general public polls reflect the same and have for years now. And if they do expand, it won't be to both WA and CQ, that also should be apparent.

Both RLW and News Ltd were national polls - more QLDers support the BEars bid than they do the current QLD bids. I think you'll find, like last year, the highest voting proportion for the BEars came from QLD.

And I think on another point anyone who has been to both bluetongue and Suncorp would agree they are the best to watch from for completely different reasons - one is the best niche, the other the best mass stadium.
 
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