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Changes at the Dragons.

The Doc

Juniors
Messages
762
I never said it was the only reason. I believe that's a presumption on your part. Obviously much of the infrastructure was already on the Gold Coast. This actually helped them to win the Games bid.
You said, "Sporting infrastructure for the Commonwealth games has absolutely nothing to do with juniors playing sport." And this is the statement I am addressing.

I have not made any presumption to the contrary. I am saying the statement is obviously incorrect and gave my reasons why I thought it was incorrect. It's not a fight or an attack on you personally so put the gun away.

Now, back to your statement...

I'm involved enough to know the junior participation is currently growing at some of the sporting clubs. It's not a coincidence that there are upgrades and new works going on at the key levels. A lot of these venues were completed last year and this year.

For example, the Southport Aquatic Centre was rebuilt and finished in 2014 specifically for the Games. It's a much larger centre now and junior participation has increased. Other examples of finished works include the Indoor Sports Centre in Coomera (a GC growth area) - this has been a boost to junior sporting participation in the area. You might laugh at the Lawn Bowls Club in Broadbeach but the sport is experiencing more young people taking part. The architects and builders have done a great job and since the works were completed the junior participation has seen a marked increase as well. I could go on but you should get the gist.

To summarise: It's not a "time will tell" thing. Why? Because it is happening now.

If you are still not convinced, then ask yourself this... if Wollongong were to get the Commonwealth Games, do you think an injection of funds into sporting facilities would lead to an increase in junior participation? I am pretty sure it would and the sporting community would jump at the opportunity. It stands to reason.
You say exactly what i said. You said numbers are growing with these developements.
These developements didnt begin because of the large number of juniors already participating in sports.
Its due to the commonwealth games.
As it happens, junior participation numbers have grown.
And no, the illawarra wouldnt see an increase in junior numbers. As most young kids in the illawarra are already participating in sports.
The gold coast didnt have the junior numbers involved in sports previously.
They had junior numbers yes, but the fact they are seeing an increase in numbers shows that previously, without all these developements, the numbers werent at there peak.
In the illawarra, the numbers ARE at there peak.
Its not that hard to comprehend.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,378
So... you agree that on the Gold Coast ,
"Sporting infrastructure for the Commonwealth games has absolutely nothing to do with juniors playing sport."
is an incorrect statement?
 

The Doc

Juniors
Messages
762
Not at all. Tell me, why has the infrastructure taken place?
To accomodate the big number of juniors the gold coast was experiencing?
Or for the commonwealth games?
Yes it benefits the juniors now, and may attract huge numbers of kids to get involved in junior sport.
But what was the purpose of the infrastructure in the first place?
Simple question.
 

Mr Red

First Grade
Messages
6,193
Endless loop indeed....

On a side note , 9/16 clubs reported financial losses for the 2016 season, totalling 35mill in losses. Parra being the worst with a 11mill loss.
All is not well in NRL land, with more and more clubs becoming reliant on NRL handouts to balance the books..
 
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RPG437

Juniors
Messages
80
All coaches start as rookies at some stage, it wasn't that long ago that Hasler was a rookie. The difference between JD, Mary, Price and even Brown is that JD has achieved a lot of success as coach of QLD and NSW cup. The others had achieved little if anything as coaches before been given the gig. JD had a far greater chance of being a success than any of the other three.

Exactly - we have been burnt bad by appointing rookies that didn't have any runs on the board. Doesn't mean appointing a rookie is bad full stop - look at Brad Arthur etc...
 

Dragon Revival

Juniors
Messages
1,603
I think that appointing either
Demetriou and/or Head for a two year term would be constructive as opposed to Nathan Brown or Trent Barrett. If the Club decided to look outside Cleary or others
may be available but either way there should be an open
recruitment process with no restriction on applicants.
 

Sheridan Stand

Juniors
Messages
427
Endless loop indeed....

On a side note , 9/16 clubs reported financial losses for the 2016 season, totalling 35mill in losses. Parra being the worst with a 11mill loss.
All is not well in NRL land, with more and more clubs becoming reliant on NRL handouts to balance the books..
I have stated for a long time that expansion is dumb and will not work.

We are at maximum teams right now and if we want top quality games every week - while I hated super league the concept - what they wanted makes perfect sense.

We should look to 12 teams and you play every team twice = 22 high quality games.

Have a top 4 and allow 5 and 6 to play a shootout match. Then play the old top 5 semi system which was a great system.
 

Sheridan Stand

Juniors
Messages
427
Here is how you get there:
5 Sydney super Clubs
Inner Sydney - Easts/Souths
Southern Sydney - STGILL /Cron
Northern Sydney - Manly/Central Coast
Inner West - West Tigers/Bulldogs
Western Sydney - Parra/Penrith

Brisbane
Melbourne
Gold Coast
North Queensland
New Zealand
Canberra
Newcastle

Later could look at PNG and Perth.
 

monsterkev

Juniors
Messages
477
wow for supposed saints supporters your willing to give up your club and join with cronulla
supporters for all clubs would riot over your proposal
are you willing to lose your identity
your off your head
stupid comment
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,388
The NRL in general is a shot duck.
It is beholding to the media and will make the decisions that the media require of it.
All this talk about "the greatest game of all" is simply crap.
Rugby League here is no different to England, it has an extremely small fan base that attend club games.
The small club grounds are ideal for the supporters of individual teams but no doubt some need upgrades of facilities.
If the game was going as well as people would have you believe, we would be setting ground records for crowds week in week out which would force the clubs into RGRV strategy but that is simply not the case.
Expansion plans will only see the strong get stronger and the pool of good talent held by a minority of clubs thus creating an even greater division between the haves and have nots.
New clubs may in fact take longer than Cronulla did to win a premiership.
The NRL simply need to understand that RL is a tribal game with a small fan base and its traditional roots need to be maintained as those people (as Souths did when they were dropped) will come back week in week out.
New clubs may kick off with a bang but continual losses wills see them go the way of so many before them into oblivion.
Any idea to sell out any Sydney teams is just ridiculous and a sure fired way of boosting the AFL membership.
 
Messages
3,782
The A League is the real threat these days to the NRL

It is a true international sport. The standard of play has improved significantly as has the status of the national team in terms of world ranking.

Murdoch made a mess of League during the super league war. His nepotism in heavily supporting/subsidizing Melbourne has finally paid some dividends in building a supporter base in that city.

The powers that control the game have an end goal in mind not dissimilar to SS's commentary.

I would prefer 20 teams playing each other once with a knockout series of 8 teams as a finals series.

Fewer games would make it easier to incorporate SOO without burning out the rep players.

Promotion of the premiers of NSW Cup/QLD Cup and relegation of bottom 2 clubs each year to give the bottom half of the NRL competition real interest and meaning.

Illawarra and STG to stand alone in the event of relegation.
 

Sheridan Stand

Juniors
Messages
427
wow for supposed saints supporters your willing to give up your club and join with cronulla
supporters for all clubs would riot over your proposal
are you willing to lose your identity
your off your head
stupid comment
Your view my post is stupid shows your commercial ignorance and is an emotional view which I respect, but sadly emotions unfortunately dont pay the bills.

Sydney leagues clubs cannot make money since the changes to poker machine laws and general ageing of the generation that actually wanted to go to leagues clubs for social fun. The whole NSW club system is under enormous threat and only survives on the remaining generous tax structures. I known the industry well as a specialist.

The football clubs, now with limited leagues club funding, in Sydney, compete in a congested economic market with insufficient 3rd party funding to support the number of clubs and the low fan bases complicate the matter - crowds are not growing which is a big concern given the population has grown. It is a tribal game which has strength and weaknesses.

I didn't say I want to merge with cronulla but my 12 team concept is a way to make rugby league great again. People are scared of change but it is inevitable in all walks of life and the alternative is you will probably wave goodbye to several Sydney clubs within 10 years (max) and our Mighty Great proud club is probably at the lowest odds to be first.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,388
Sheridan
I wonder what would actually happen if the NSW RL told the NRL to tell Ch 9 and Fox to stick it in their arse.
The worst IMO that could happen is the 2nd Division NSW Cup would become the 1st grade comp.
Now everyone will say that if the players don't get paid big $$$ we won't have a comp but I am not so sure that will be the case.
Many of RL players are not the brightest people and if confronted with dropping from a $300k contract to say a $50K contract would they walk away from the game or would they be like Shannon Wakeman who combines footy with a real job?
The game has evolved from a working man's game with working class blokes playing it into a huge sport with prima donnas badly behaving, being overpaid and the working man barely able to afford to go to the game.
If there was only a few games broadcast like the old days the fans would most likely get back to the suburban grounds and support their teams.
Lot's of great players held job at the same time as playing for the Dragons and of course some went on to be legendary and to be honest very few legends have emerged since they became fully time professionals.
We have been duped as the supporters into believing all the media about "they have to earn big $$$ because they only play for a few years".
To that I would say "well piss off because there is somebody who will take your place tomorrow and despite the fact he might not be as good he will wear the jumper for the right reason".
Money and the media have ruined this game.
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,845
The population may be 150,000 less, but i assure you the number of kids involved in sports is much higher in the illawarra then the gold coast.

I'm pretty patient, still waiting for something that resembles facts to back up this ludicrous claim.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,378
Endless loop indeed....

On a side note , 9/16 clubs reported financial losses for the 2016 season, totalling 35mill in losses. Parra being the worst with a 11mill loss.
All is not well in NRL land, with more and more clubs becoming reliant on NRL handouts to balance the books..
I'm of the view that the NRL isn't all that uncomfortable with this state of affairs. They want less teams in Sydney but are generally blocked by the Clubs.If the Clubs are reliant on the NRL then imo this will fit in the NRL's Super League plan.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,378
Here is how you get there:
5 Sydney super Clubs
Inner Sydney - Easts/Souths
Southern Sydney - STGILL /Cron
Northern Sydney - Manly/Central Coast
Inner West - West Tigers/Bulldogs
Western Sydney - Parra/Penrith

Brisbane
Melbourne
Gold Coast
North Queensland
New Zealand
Canberra
Newcastle
'Super' clubs... where have I heard that before?

Add to that no suburban venues, high ticket prices, and you'll have the NRL plan worked out. By default, big business in sport is about exploitation.

At the recent US World Series and the Super Bowl, ticket prices were over $6000 on average. It cost $2000 to sit in the rafters. But the battlers weren't completely forgotten, for $250 they could get a spot in the car park. No joke.

I imagine the current NRL administration taking notes and licking their lips at the possibility of cashing in on half that much for an NRL grand final.

Of course, in order to do this the NRL would need a bigger war chest.

Later could look at PNG and Perth.
PNG have a team in the Qld Cup.

They do OK, but are a way off being able to field a competitive team in the NRL. Maybe with a major injection of money but to date the NRL has seem more content to see how things play out.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,528
Your view my post is stupid shows your commercial ignorance and is an emotional view which I respect, but sadly emotions unfortunately dont pay the bills.

Sydney leagues clubs cannot make money since the changes to poker machine laws and general ageing of the generation that actually wanted to go to leagues clubs for social fun. The whole NSW club system is under enormous threat and only survives on the remaining generous tax structures. I known the industry well as a specialist.

The football clubs, now with limited leagues club funding, in Sydney, compete in a congested economic market with insufficient 3rd party funding to support the number of clubs and the low fan bases complicate the matter - crowds are not growing which is a big concern given the population has grown. It is a tribal game which has strength and weaknesses.

I didn't say I want to merge with cronulla but my 12 team concept is a way to make rugby league great again. People are scared of change but it is inevitable in all walks of life and the alternative is you will probably wave goodbye to several Sydney clubs within 10 years (max) and our Mighty Great proud club is probably at the lowest odds to be first.

I was , to an extent , ignorant of that side of the game , however both of your posts have now enlightened me to the realities that are , and could possibly be . Your original post reveals a glimpse of the possible future of the game , as horrendous as that maybe , never the less, still a possibility.

Sheridan
I wonder what would actually happen if the NSW RL told the NRL to tell Ch 9 and Fox to stick it in their arse.
The worst IMO that could happen is the 2nd Division NSW Cup would become the 1st grade comp.
Now everyone will say that if the players don't get paid big $$$ we won't have a comp but I am not so sure that will be the case.
Many of RL players are not the brightest people and if confronted with dropping from a $300k contract to say a $50K contract would they walk away from the game or would they be like Shannon Wakeman who combines footy with a real job?
The game has evolved from a working man's game with working class blokes playing it into a huge sport with prima donnas badly behaving, being overpaid and the working man barely able to afford to go to the game.
If there was only a few games broadcast like the old days the fans would most likely get back to the suburban grounds and support their teams.
Lot's of great players held job at the same time as playing for the Dragons and of course some went on to be legendary and to be honest very few legends have emerged since they became fully time professionals.
We have been duped as the supporters into believing all the media about "they have to earn big $$$ because they only play for a few years".
To that I would say "well piss off because there is somebody who will take your place tomorrow and despite the fact he might not be as good he will wear the jumper for the right reason".
Money and the media have ruined this game.

Ever so true , Old Timer .
Yes it would seem that the NRL dances to the tune , of the puppeteer , the Media,
and of course to the grand master , the media moguls themselves , their interest being the almighty dollar .

Also , there certainly would be plenty of players , of lesser abilities , who would jump through a hoop if necessary , to gain a contract of far lesser value than what is being demanded by the Princes of today's game .

Should that scenario ever eventuate , who knows , perhaps pride and loyalty will once again return to all Rugby League Clubs and the game in general .
 
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possm

Coach
Messages
15,676
The Dragons and Tigers are already joint venture Clubs. Under no cercumstances should they be required to take on a third entity.

Upgrade Win Stadium, send the Sharks to Perth, merge South/Easts, Bulldogs/Eels, Manly/Central Coast.
 

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