Charlie Gubb

[Manu Vatuvei]

This is a fruitless "debate" but I think "small" is being misused to mean not strong enough, damaging enough with ball in hand etc, which I totally agree with.

108kg has never been "too small" for an enforcer role. The only thing it's too small for is the "holy crap that guy is massive role" which is not really a role AFAIK. The absolute biggest guys tend to be not so much enforcers as the guys criticised for being "soft"- Dave Taylor, Sam Kasiano etc

As it stands there is actually no-one within the 20 or so guys in and around the squad at the moment who is bigger than Gubb by any significant margin so by that logic no-one in the squad is big enough to be an enforcer.

 

[Rich102]

When I think enforcer I think Kevin Tamati, Paul Gallen, not necessarily big.
Charlie has a willingness that could develop.

 

[Meth]

This is a fruitless "debate" but I think "small" is being misused to mean not strong enough, damaging enough with ball in hand etc, which I totally agree with.

108kg has never been "too small" for an enforcer role. The only thing it's too small for is the "holy crap that guy is massive role" which is not really a role AFAIK. The absolute biggest guys tend to be not so much enforcers as the guys criticised for being "soft"- Dave Taylor, Sam Kasiano etc

As it stands there is actually no-one within the 20 or so guys in and around the squad at the moment who is bigger than Gubb by any significant margin so by that logic no-one in the squad is big enough to be an enforcer.

Yeah ok- fair enough and some good points.

Gubb's size is not so much the issue, as much as his contribution and ability (in my view)

 

[Meth]

btw- I think we have had this convo about Gubb's size before...

 

[Rich102]

Charlies still young for a prop. Give him another off season and then we will get a better idea.

 

[Meth]

Charlies still young for a prop. Give him another off season and then we will get a better idea.

So are Lisone and Vete, but they seem to offer more- not to mention Sipley and even Gavet and now Afoa...

 

[vvvrulz]

So are Lisone and Vete, but they seem to offer more- not to mention Sipley and even Gavet and now Afoa...

What is the deal with Gavet, suddenly he ended up on Cappy's no go list?

Didn't set the world on fire but certainly contributes more than Gubb, daft really.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

What is the deal with Gavet, suddenly he ended up on Cappy's no go list?

Didn't set the world on fire but certainly contributes more than Gubb, daft really.

Could be off field stuff, he has form there

 

[Meth]

What is the deal with Gavet, suddenly he ended up on Cappy's no go list?

Didn't set the world on fire but certainly contributes more than Gubb, daft really.

I think they are seen as playing different roles. Gavet is competing with Matulino, Lisone, Vete and Lillyman as part of the regular prop rotation; whereas I assume Gubb plays some kind of impact role- but I am scratching my head as to what that is.

 

[Meth]

Could be off field stuff, he has form there

All of the off field press on him has been positive, from what I've seen.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Charlies still young for a prop. Give him another off season and then we will get a better idea.

Is he a prop or a 13? I don't get it.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

All of the off field press on him has been positive, from what I've seen.

That's good to hear.

 

[MKEB...]

Is he a prop or a 13? I don't get it.

IIRC he started off as an over-sized hooker playing NYC, and ended up getting shifted to prop (similar TO PRE-nyc comp Okesene and Palea'asina) to me he seems more like a natural lock than front rower. I enjoy the energy he brings and grasscutter tackles. I hate seeing the grasscutter getting stepped with ease though.

As a smaller kid learning to play footy...my old man always told me to tackle around the ankles "you cant run without legs", and that is how I would teach kids to tackle still. Charlie COULD be a role model for legs tackles...i stress COULD

 

[Penrose Warrior]

IIRC he started off as an over-sized hooker playing NYC, and ended up getting shifted to prop (similar TO PRE-nyc comp Okesene and Palea'asina) to me he seems more like a natural lock than front rower. I enjoy the energy he brings and grasscutter tackles. I hate seeing the grasscutter getting stepped with ease though.

As a smaller kid learning to play footy...my old man always told me to tackle around the ankles "you cant run without legs", and that is how I would teach kids to tackle still. Charlie COULD be a role model for legs tackles...i stress COULD

Works at junior level but we all know that going round the legs can eliminate the wrestle which allows the other side a quicker play of the ball, right? To be fair, I haven't seen one of those awful grasscutter efforts in a few weeks. He was doing them on our own line, the worst of which was against the Dogs when he did 3 in about 5 minutes and left us exposed.

I dunno, I just don't see what he offers. It all seems to centre around the motivation of others.

 

[Meth]

Is there any basis for the claim that he lifts the team? Or are we perceiving that (rightly or wrongly)?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Is there any basis for the claim that he lifts the team? Or are we perceiving that (rightly or wrongly)?

It's unquantifable, obviously. If you're relying on a guy who has played 27 games over four seasons to provide you with the spark required to win a game in the NRL, it's not surprising you've only won half the amount you've attempted to.

But hey, we're winning. Let's have the discussion about a guy who offers very little another time.

 

[Meth]

It's unquantifable, obviously. If you're relying on a guy who has played 27 games over four seasons to provide you with the spark required to win a game in the NRL, it's not surprising you've only won half the amount you've attempted to.

But hey, we're winning. Let's have the discussion about a guy who offers very little another time.

Yeah definitely.

Maybe in the finals, when we don't have a good enough 17 to be competitive

 

[Meth]

The All Blacks have been winning for a long time now, but they have gone to another level and one of the keys has been their bench. There's no room on that bench for blokes who offer very little. Apples and oranges, perhaps- but I don't get the 'well, we're winning' attitude (which I know you are mimicking PW)

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

The All Blacks have been winning for a long time now, but they have gone to another level and one of the keys has been their bench. There's no room on that bench for blokes who offer very little.

NZRFU scouts are good at picking up all the young talent. They even pick up promising players in the islands. To make things worse for our Warriors, is they even look at luring our junior league players. I can recall Ofahengaue and Skelton as probably the only ones to get away but I heard they were Aussie bound anyway so the NZRFU union scouts do extremely well.

For us, there's not as much talent to pick from and some of our players understanderbly get away to Aussie and ESL clubs BUT... they didn't get our Charlie!! No sireE..

 

[jaseg]

They actually did get our Charlie... well Wynnum-Manly did, for a while anyway :lol:

The All Blacks have been winning for a long time now, but they have gone to another level and one of the keys has been their bench. There's no room on that bench for blokes who offer very little. Apples and oranges, perhaps- but I don't get the 'well, we're winning' attitude (which I know you are mimicking PW)

This - obviously it's a different situation (salary capped squad), but I'm all for bringing in extra guys, particularly middle forwards who can make an actual impact (ie. not Gubb, at least most of the time). Gubb runs upright and gets smashed, then goes again - and earlier in the year kept flying into ridiculous tackles and getting beaten. Looks great, doesn't help the team. Just... not first 17 standard.

I like Sipley - he missed more tackles than he made on debut, but much better his second time around, and his hitups were impressive. Lisone & Vete are good, still developing. I'd like to bring in more though... Tagataese if experience is your go, otherwise Asofa-Solomona (amazing if unlikely) or Pat Vaivai (off field problem last year and got released, would require some consideration, playing QLD cup this year - but had him pegged as the 2nd best young middle after NAS at the end of last year) as younger/potentially cheaper (in the case of Vaivai) options.