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Cleary on Walsh

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,506
MX is going to be stoked!
Really disappointing obviously. Might as well give up bitching and hope Cleary puts the right team around him and we get the rest of our house organised before we can bring in a great half..
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,139
Well this season is already a write off, and until changes are made the start of next season will likely be the same. Every game wasted with the same proven failures, is one less game to work on a team that could be competitive next season.

Which is what pisses me off the most. The current team is just nowhere near good enough to compete at first grade level. Our Under 20's and reserve grade side have a number of players who could come in and do atleast as well as some of the current players, with the added bonus of being young and having room for improvement.

George Jennings and Tony Satini could do atleast aswell as Brad Tighe... and the best part is that each week we could expect slight improvement and with some first grade experience this season, aswell as a complete off-season could go onto be first grade stars in 2014.

Blake Austin is pretty much better in every area possible over Luke Walsh. Halfback might not be his best position or where his future lies, but he ticks more boxes as a halfback then Walshy does. He runs at the line, he puts players in gaps, he forces the defence to second guess what he might do, he is a strong defender and is just as capable with his kicking and passing as Walsh. His running game and strength are the best part of his game, but he has shown he has a huge variety of skills at Windsor and needs more then a single game of first grade to prove it at NRL level. Especially if Walsh gets 5+ seasons and is allowed to get worse without losing his spot.

Travis Robinson was good in his NRL appearances last year, and is quicker and more dangerous with the ball in hand then David Simmons. He's another player that has the potential to improve, while Simmons is just getting older and slightly worse with each season.

Dean Whare was never a quality fullback, and finally got moved to centre and had his best game for us by far. Unfrotunately the useless centre was moved back to fullback and again found out defensively, always caught out of position and offering nothing. Meanwhile we have a legitimate fullback with some ball playing skills playing for the Wolves. Matt Moylan couldn't possibly be worse then Whare or Naiqama, but again would benefit from first grade experience and be better for the run in 2014.

After the latest Wolves game, I don't even think Ciraldo would be good enough to get a spot in the side if it was actually picked on form and quality. Deadset he is that bad. I think Cherrington is already looking like he could play first grade after a couple of years of injuries. Looks very dangerous for the Wolves.

Then there's Newton, not quiet as bad as Ciraldo but is another player who is just getting on in age and only getting worse. Not sure how these guys get a spot on our bench when we have plenty of young talent to bring in and easily do the same job, with room for improvement. Assuming they aren't immediately better to begin with.

My team...
1. Matt Moylan
2. Josh Mansour
3. Dean Whare
4. George Jennings / Tony Satini
5. Travis Robinson
6. Tom Humble
7. Blake Austin
8. Tim Grant
9. James Segayaro
10. Sam McKendry
11. Lewis Brown
12. Sika Manu
13. Nigel Plum

14. Adam Docker
15. Mose Masoe
16. Matt Robinson
17. Anthony Cherrington

Lewis Brown can cover Segs at hooker if he needs a break to keep him fresh toward the end of games.

James Roberts will walk into the team and replace one of Moylan, Robinson or Jennings/Satini based on which of those positions is the weakest. He was a proven fullback/winger before getting here, and in the trials killed it at centre. So he just fixes which every position is the weakest.

If they're all firing and the halves aren't, then move Moylan to the halves in place of whoever isn't good enough, and have James Roberts at fullback.

But we need to let players have atleast a month together before making decisions like that. A single game isn't enough. Likewise I don't think they deserve an entire season and to be kept regardless. But give them a month and send them back to reserve grade if they aren't playing good enough, and tell them where they need to improve.

Those players have the potential to improve and give us a good team next season. The likes of Wes Naiqama, Brad Tighe, David Simmons, Luke Walsh, Cameron Ciraldo, Clint Newton and so on have played more then enough first grade to know what they're going to offer the team, and honestly not one of them is likely to get any better then what we have already seen. Odds on they will only get worse. So why waste this season on them? I'm not under the illusion that mass changes will result in immediate results. But they need to happen so that even if the immediate results aren't happening, there's a chance that future results will come. The teams being picked at the moment are achieving nothing other then breaking fans hearts.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Yeah we have a poorly coached side, average players all over the park, no structure these are what we need to fix. He was decent in 2010 we had decent team then below aside from a winger is a team of players that's now left. I would back the team of those gone to beat the current side. So improve the rest and go from there.

Gordon,
Earl,
Jennings,
Cooper,

Graham,
Siejka.
Petero,
Burns,
Waterhouse,
Pritchard,
Lewis,
Paulo:
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,506
Yeah that side looks so much better mx. We might get flogged occasionally but that side definitely wouldnt go 160 mins without scoring.
Only thing Id change is getting rid of Plum, he isnt cutting it and Docker has him cvered. Bring in Latimore or ODonnell when theyre back.
Halves is our issue and there is no obvious fix.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,252
But would that side also only concede 2 tries in 144 minutes? I doubt it right now. May be more exciting however.

Seeing George Jennings and Tony Satini's defense yesterday it highlighted some severe limitations in their game. They need time to develop at Windsor before throwing them in First Grade.

I'd still have Walsh at halfback, piss off Plum and have Austin at Lock

And James Roberts in the #4 when fit

And that'd be a team I'd be stoked with.

Jeremy Latimore also in for Docker...as 1 prop and 3 backrowers when two of our backrowers would play 80 minutes is a bit unbalanced.

1. Moylan, 2. Mansour, 3. Whare, 4. Roberts, 5. Robinson, 6. Humble, 7. Walsh, 8. McKendry, 9. Segeyaro, 10. Grant, 11. Manu, 12. Brown, 13. Austin
RES: 14. Masoe, 15. Anderson/Latimore/Docker, 16. Robinson/Docker/VTK, 17. Cherrington/VTK

Moylan concerned me on Saturday...his defense left a lot to be desired but he shouldn't need to make tackles tbh. I fear he'll get the Coote treatment if put up to First Grade, but it is worth it because he can help us offensively.

That gives us 4 genuine Playmakers in Moylan, Humble, Walsh and Austin and a game-breaker in Segeyaro.

To be honest I don't think the problem is with Walsh. The Nth Qld game proved it. Our problem is we have too many of the same player. Docker, Plum, Newton, Ciraldo...pretty much...all the same.

At least with the team above or MX's team we have some variety and different ways to attack teams...and that is what ultimately scores points - unpredictability.
 
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abpanther

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,795
I think people here are giving Humble way too much credit

Doesn't look like much more than a journeymen to me
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,252
Better than anything we got right now Ab.

We know Coote is going to come back next year so may as well leave Humble there instead of having Austin there when everyone knows Austin will be a backrower and not in the halves...like Graham.
 

Graftonpanther

Juniors
Messages
204
Yeah agree with you MX that is a much more competitive side, the thing about that side compared to the current one is the POTENTIAL to improve and be a good side, they all have the ability to improve and compete.

The team we trot out at the moment is full of has beens who would not get a run with another side and has NO POTENTIAL to improve IMO.

The has beens cannot get any better that is why they were let go by other teams.

I agree with James Roberts he showed he has plenty of untapped class in the trials and hopefully he is not far away.

The sad thing is there is no point whinging about Walsh any more as it is clearly not going to change for the rest of the season now.

I hope IC can prove us all wrong with Walsh for the sake of the team, but after all these years I have very strong doubts on this.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,252
The thing with selecting Humble and Austin in the halves that concerns me, is something I've been thinking about for the last couple of weeks.

Like...I don't mind it...but with having these two in the halves we are basically eliminating any ball play I think.

Both of them are run-first five-eights. Humble has even admitted he doesn't like playing 7 because then he wouldn't run as much...it wouldn't be his natural game.

Austin looks uncomfortable at halfback and doesn't have the range in his kicking game to be the primary kicker.

We can argue till we are blue in the face...but in all likelihood if that is our halves pairing it would be like playing with 2 Travis Burns as your halves...none of your backs would see consistent ball.

That isn't to say Austin cannot do it...he can get away with stuff at Windsor...but this isn't Windsor. At First Grade level...he is either a five-eight or lock and in the future he is likely a lock so why not just let the kid focus on that?

Humble, while being a handy contributor also doesn't have the kicking game to be a consistent halfback nor the organisational skills.

Walsh, unfortunately, is the only REAL halfback we have in this squad. Issac John isn't ready to step up, he is handy but only as a fill-in.

Our best option right now is to put as much speed and playmakers around to take the pressure off Walsh.

Moylan is a start, Austin to lock is another move I want to see to give us 4 genuine playmakers to ensure we are unpredictable. That would give us the best chance to win.

An Austin/Humble pairing would be predictable the more and more I think about it even more so than now. That is scary! And giving Walsh Roberts and Whare on the edge along with Manu, Robinson and Brown is a lot better than freaking Ciraldo, Newton, Wes, Simmons and Plum
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
That's the way I see it Big Mick. Better off getting Austin a bit wider to be one on one with defenders to use his foot work.

I don't want him wasting a season or 2 now in 7 then another season or so learning to play lock.

If we kept Seijka or John came from a good ESL we would have options we don't sadly.

I like your team Big Mick though I can't see that many newbies getting a run. I think the best we can hope for is:

Humble (Roberts when he returns).
Mansour.
Tighe.
Whare.
Simmons.
Austin (Humble when Roberts comes).
Walsh.
Grant.
Kingston.
Mckendry.
Manu.
Brown.
Docker (Austin when Humble moves):
Sege.
Latimore.
Plum.
Robinson (Docker when Austin moves)
 

murraymob

Coach
Messages
10,338
in order to win games we need to score points and that is why Austin and Moylan have to be both in the team .Both are good support players something we are sadly lacking right now
 

EzyG

Juniors
Messages
80
Wish I could be bothered to read more than 3 lines per post at the moment.

I also wish we can all get pissed together.

Windsor Wolves looks as strong as the Panthers WTF.

I feel all your frustration at wanting a successful club & NRL side.

The future panthers halves coaching clinic maybe, one day, be just the ticket.

just goining to spew now.
 

age.s

First Grade
Messages
7,506
Haha ezyg, I feel the same way at the moment. I want to dream up all these scenarios where we make some changes and improve massively but it really is a pipe dream. We're a bog ordinary side that has been compounded by injuries. It's really about who we sign for next year at this point which is very depressing.

Not sure what else Cleary was going to say about Walsh. "Oh he's complete ass but he's the best of a bog ordinary set of halves so my hands are tied." That might be closer to the truth but how would that help anyone in the squad? I'm just keeping faith that the reason we went so hard at JT is because Gould and Cleary know we're not going anywhere without a decent half and we don't have one at the club at the moment.
 

Copperhead

Juniors
Messages
1,117
I don't want him wasting a season or 2 now in 7 then another season or so learning to play lock.

Are we sure Austin is even in the plans for lock? I think Taylor may already have his name on that position, and if we've learned anything from past seasons, the new buys get preference over the players trying to rise through the ranks.
 

Graftonpanther

Juniors
Messages
204
Agree with you age.s about hoping they are still chasing a decent half, hopefully we can snare someone but no-one really left now.

Carney only hope maybe, but that is a very long shot that he will leave Sharks, not sure on Hodgkinsons situation at the dogs, he may be worth talking to.
 
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Messages
4,765
Based on the off contract halves on the market who would be the best and least best option to attempt to sign? I'd go with

Carney - proven performer, has a great kicking and passing game. Has shown maturity in the last 2 seasons, he is showing consistency more often than not.

Soward - won a grandfinal, decent organizing ability, plenty of experience. Might need a change, seems to be getting stale at Dragons.

Widdop - talented player, over priced however. Shows grit and effort every play thanks to the Storm system.

Williams - proven he is more than able to step up. Great potential and could be a top 3 half in 5 years time.

Hodgkinson - injuries have marred his career, form isn't consistent. A change might reignite that but a long shot at the moment.

Not sure on J.Reynolds, Luke Keary's, or UK Super League halves statuses.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Based on the off contract halves on the market who would be the best and least best option to attempt to sign? I'd go with

Carney - proven performer, has a great kicking and passing game. Has shown maturity in the last 2 seasons, he is showing consistency more often than not.

Soward - won a grandfinal, decent organizing ability, plenty of experience. Might need a change, seems to be getting stale at Dragons.

Widdop - talented player, over priced however. Shows grit and effort every play thanks to the Storm system.

Williams - proven he is more than able to step up. Great potential and could be a top 3 half in 5 years time.

Hodgkinson - injuries have marred his career, form isn't consistent. A change might reignite that but a long shot at the moment.

Not sure on J.Reynolds, Luke Keary's, or UK Super League halves statuses.

Carney wont go. Sam Williams is the one, Then Hodkinson and Townsend

If we go ESL it has to be the top 4 clubs any lower and they are NSW Cup standard
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Are we sure Austin is even in the plans for lock? I think Taylor may already have his name on that position, and if we've learned anything from past seasons, the new buys get preference over the players trying to rise through the ranks.

Good Point. He is a local so that would put him on the outer you would think
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,252
Taylor can play anywhere in the backrow.

Austin was being groom at centre prior to Cootes injury so maybe they think his future lays there or in the backrow.

But Graham was meant to be a lock too and he is playing second row mostly.
 

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