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Coach Robinson advocates 20game season

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
It isn't less content if it's done properly.

This has been pointed out time and time again in this thread but you seem intent on ignoring it.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,019
It doesn’t matter what you’re paying for, if they drop the number of rounds Foxtel and the commercial networks will say ‘you are giving us fewer weeks of content and fewer opportunities to sell ads - we are paying less for this’ and all the NSW Cup knockouts and Fiji vs Vanuatu test matches in the universe will not be enough to compensate.

If people can cancel their Foxtel a month earlier because the season is over, that is a big hit for Foxtel. They aren’t just going to take it they’ll pay less money.

If you think the commercial broadcasters will then step into the breach to cover the shortfall, then I have a bridge to sell you.


The NRL and AFL could halve the amount of game’s they play and their next eights deals would still go up.

Streaming services are going to be genuine players when the next rights deal rolls round, and as such Foxtel is going to have to pay through the nose. The very livelihood of their company depends on it.

If Foxtel low balls either league and one actually signs elsewhere, they’ll go broke
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
The NRL and AFL could halve the amount of game’s they play and their next eights deals would still go up.

Streaming services are going to be genuine players when the next rights deal rolls round, and as such Foxtel is going to have to pay through the nose. The very livelihood of their company depends on it.

If Foxtel low balls either league and one actually signs elsewhere, they’ll go broke

Hopefully not Optus Sport....

In reality, leagues should be investing in streaming services themselves. NBA does it, the MLB does it, the NHL used to do it (now it's done by the MLB team). If the Telstra streaming service was improved, it'd definitely be an option I'd look at.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,238
We don't know until we test it?

We don't know if people who own media companies will pay the same amount for less content? On the grounds that 'it's for the good of the game'?

Jesus Christ.

Ok let’s play this game.
So each individual nrl game is worth about $1mill in the media deal, give or take a few $’s. We lose 4 games by expanding to 18 teams and reducing to 20 rounds. That’s $4mill a year. Hypothetically let’s say the increased rep content value is $0.5mill a game. That is an overall loss on the annual revenue of $2mill or 0.3% of revenue. If it leads to better outcomes for the game is it with this minuscule reduction in revenue?
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
Streaming services are going to be genuine players when the next rights deal rolls round, and as such Foxtel is going to have to pay through the nose. The very livelihood of their company depends on it.

Who is going to produce the content (ie. film games, provide content etc etc) for these streaming service to give you NRL for $15-20 per month? Can you cite one streaming service who already does this rather than just simulcasting someone elses’ content?
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Foxtel pay a million per game according to Kent in that conversation. Good luck fixing the $32m lost to the NRL.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Ok let’s play this game.
So each individual nrl game is worth about $1mill in the media deal, give or take a few $’s. We lose 4 games by expanding to 18 teams and reducing to 20 rounds. That’s $4mill a year. Hypothetically let’s say the increased rep content value is $0.5mill a game. That is an overall loss on the annual revenue of $2mill or 0.3% of revenue. If it leads to better outcomes for the game is it with this minuscule reduction in revenue?

It would still be a hard sell.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,238
Who is going to produce the content (ie. film games, provide content etc etc) for these streaming service to give you NRL for $15-20 per month? Can you cite one streaming service who already does this rather than just simulcasting someone elses’ content?

Good question, I’m guessing they have done the business case for it hence why they are investing $100mill in time for next deal. They won’t drop fta so it will be how and who gets the other games from 2023.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,238
Foxtel pay a million per game according to Kent in that conversation. Good luck fixing the $32m lost to the NRL.

It wouldnt be 32 games lost with expansion, yes it may be a hard sell but with Australia’s premium sports content product media should be falling over themselves to buy it,

There’s a reason even hugely successful shows have seasons and don’t show every week all year long.
You can get overexposure and viewer fatigue. NFL know this and have a very short season to make every game an event and must watch/attend occasion. A 20 round season seems a good compromise to work towards to free up space and player enthusiasm for rep footy which is where the real u tapped potential growth for the game is.

Nrl has plateaued for last 5 years and despite shed loads more revenue audiences and crowds are stagnant. We need to grow new markets and rep footy is a great way of doing that.
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
It wouldnt be 32 games lost with expansion, yes it may be a hard sell but with Australia’s premium sports content product media should be falling over themselves to buy it,

There’s a reason even hugely successful shows have seasons and don’t show every week all year long.
You can get overexposure and viewer fatigue. NFL know this and have a very short season to make every game an event and must watch/attend occasion. A 20 round season seems a good compromise to work towards to free up space and player enthusiasm for rep footy which is where the real u tapped potential growth for the game is.

Nrl has plateaued for last 5 years and despite shed loads more revenue audiences and crowds are stagnant. We need to grow new markets and rep footy is a great way of doing that.

But there will still be a heap of bad games because we need to then find 100 extra players for four more first grade squads. We have five sides playing park footy standard as is with only 16 teams.

Add to that we'll have to have games in more undesirable timeslots because in order for your logic to hold up there can't be games in overlapping timeslots. The viewing numbers will drop. Only absolute diehards watch all eight games each round - I dare say the average fan would watch closer to three or four. Who is going to watch ten games per round?

Lets examine the 1998 NRL season when there were last 20 teams. I know fans had been turned off by the war, but even so - who in their right f**king mind would've watched the Magpies play the Chargers? Or the Rabbitohs play the Rams? You think people are going to watch these games for enjoyment? I've had trips to the dentist more fun than watching the bottom 6 sides in a 20 team competition run around.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
But there will still be a heap of bad games because we need to then find 100 extra players for four more first grade squads. We have five sides playing park footy standard as is with only 16 teams.

Add to that we'll have to have games in more undesirable timeslots because in order for your logic to hold up there can't be games in overlapping timeslots. The viewing numbers will drop. Only absolute diehards watch all eight games each round - I dare say the average fan would watch closer to three or four. Who is going to watch ten games per round?

Lets examine the 1998 NRL season when there were last 20 teams. I know fans had been turned off by the war, but even so - who in their right f**king mind would've watched the Magpies play the Chargers? Or the Rabbitohs play the Rams? You think people are going to watch these games for enjoyment? I've had trips to the dentist more fun than watching the bottom 6 sides in a 20 team competition run around.

So by your logic getting rid of some dud games (basically the entire origin period) will lose viewers, but adding more potentially dud games won't gain any viewers.

Checks out.
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
So by your logic getting rid of some dud games (basically the entire origin period) will lose viewers, but adding more potentially dud games won't gain any viewers.

Checks out.

Pick over my words to justify your position any way you like. The reality is if we reduce the number of rounds, Foxtel will use it as a wedge to offer less money for the rights.

And you and PerthRed's solution to add more teams, diluting the pool of players even more so that there will be more lower quality games per round, added with the odd test featuring Tahiti vs East Timor and a knockout comp for NSW Cup teams and Group 17 - yeah, definitely a solution.

Do you guys seriously not understand how Fox and the networks will exploit this? You add four extra teams, you thin the player pool. Fox, 9, 10 and 7 will say, 'well, you've added a few extra teams so there's two extra games per round, but they're now weaker across the board so there will be more blowouts, and I've got a month shorter season - so I'm decreasing my offer by 15%'.

Do you think the broadcasters will go 'oh its for the good of the game, so sweet'. They don't give a shit about the good of the game. They're looking at a return on investment. And in a 20 team competition, teams 15-20, playing any team in the top 8 is staring down the barrel of a 40 point blowout every week. It'll be played in a shithouse timeslot because we'll need to add two extra so matches don't overlap. We already have two terrible timeslots with the early Friday and Saturday slots. When will these matches be played?

How on earth is that even remotely attractive to a broadcaster?
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
lol so this thread has turned from arguing about a 20 game season into the fact that we can't apparently ever expand because the broadcasters will pay less money.

AFL have a shorter season and more teams with a much bigger player pool and they seem to be fine attracting big money from broadcasters.

20 teams - 20 rounds + pre-season tournament + 3 week rep window + 8 week international season sounds a lot better than
16 teams - 23 full rounds + 2 half-rounds + 1 week rep window + 4 week international season

Also a knockout between us out here in the former Group 17 would be more entertaining than some of the shit turned up from the NRL sides during the Origin period
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,238
But there will still be a heap of bad games because we need to then find 100 extra players for four more first grade squads. We have five sides playing park footy standard as is with only 16 teams.

Add to that we'll have to have games in more undesirable timeslots because in order for your logic to hold up there can't be games in overlapping timeslots. The viewing numbers will drop. Only absolute diehards watch all eight games each round - I dare say the average fan would watch closer to three or four. Who is going to watch ten games per round?

Lets examine the 1998 NRL season when there were last 20 teams. I know fans had been turned off by the war, but even so - who in their right f**king mind would've watched the Magpies play the Chargers? Or the Rabbitohs play the Rams? You think people are going to watch these games for enjoyment? I've had trips to the dentist more fun than watching the bottom 6 sides in a 20 team competition run around.

Re time slots, depends on if nrl produces and sells own content. If your subscribing for all your teams games then doesn’t matter if three games are all kicking off at same time on a Sunday afternoon.

18teams should be the goal by 2022
20 teams by 2024/25

All the money the game now has if it hasn’t sorted out jnr footy and elite pathways by then to produce more talent it wants shooting.
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
The NRL would be bonkers to start their own production house. The market is not big enough to justify it and from a business perspective it’s not a core competency.

Also, Foxtel and channel 9 utilise their equipment and talent in other areas during the off season, something I doubt the NRL could do.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,663
Club footy hasnt really grown in 20 years. TV is good, but crowds are the same as they were in like the 80s....

There is so much more potential in Rep footy; just look at the passion Origin inspires and how quickly a bit of success for Tonga has made brought the fans out em masse. Indigenous AllStars has HEAPS of potential (just need a decent opposition).

The biggest opportunity i see in Rep footy is the chance to change up the format. Origin is so different to the NRL, i think that variety is valuable to shake up the season. I think the comp format is the most important piece. It isnt enough to just expect fans to love their team, they need to be invested in the contest itself and hate the other teams....

Agreed with all of this.

Indigenous All Stars should play NZ Maori - it would be perfect - England could put together an Indigenous side too - call them the All Whites - lol
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
lol so this thread has turned from arguing about a 20 game season into the fact that we can't apparently ever expand because the broadcasters will pay less money.

AFL have a shorter season and more teams with a much bigger player pool and they seem to be fine attracting big money from broadcasters.

20 teams - 20 rounds + pre-season tournament + 3 week rep window + 8 week international season sounds a lot better than
16 teams - 23 full rounds + 2 half-rounds + 1 week rep window + 4 week international season

Also a knockout between us out here in the former Group 17 would be more entertaining than some of the shit turned up from the NRL sides during the Origin period

We can definitely expand, but it needs to be done incrementally over time.

No more than 2 more teams in the next 15 years, and 2 in the following decade. Preferably one at a time so they aren't fighting each other for the scraps on the market.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,019
Who is going to produce the content (ie. film games, provide content etc etc) for these streaming service to give you NRL for $15-20 per month? Can you cite one streaming service who already does this rather than just simulcasting someone elses’ content?


I would imagine whoever purchases it would produce it.

I’d also expect pricing to be more like $25-30 per month.
 
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