Cooper cronk

[Saintsified]

Lol seriously? I'm all for players loyalty and all that, but trying to claim Benji is better than Cronk at all, let alone as a 7, is laughable!

Firstly, Benji's skills rely heavily on his speed and while he is still effective, he isnt near as brillaint as he was in 2010-11. Cronk, if anything, improves with age. His kicking game is better. His organisation and control is better. His passing is better. His running is more direct. His vision is as good, if not better. His defence is better.

And as for the QLD team - Benji wouldnt be in it, because JT is playing 5/8. But looking at the brilliant players that aurround Cronk - all of them are on record saying that Cronk is the boss. When he wants the ball, he gets it. When Smith was out of the QLD team, Jake Friend fills in and they didnt miss a beat. When Slater is out, they lose nothing in playing GI at fullback (or Munster, in the case of Melbourne). But when Cronk is out of the QLD team, they go to shit, even when DCE is the one filling in! One could easily argue that those players are as good as they are due to playing alongside Cronk (except for JT).

As far as halfbacks go, he is the best, regardless of age.

Actually the only reason Benji wasn't in the QLD was because he stayed loyal to NZ...had he if accepted then JT wouldn't have been there....with QLD and the loyalty they show Benji would still be in the team.

 

[Saintsified]

I note you said if Benji was a Qld player so taking the best possible option for him to look good.

What if he was a NSW player would he not be the difference to get us into a constant winning position?

If not then obviously he needs good cattle around him which is the inference you make about Cronk.

IMO if Cronk was the NSW half we would have won several more games in SOO if not at least a series because that is the difference he can make IMO he is a master craftsmen in the No 7 jumper and Benji out of his comfort zone in that position.

You may be right, but my point is the Origin players seem to get bigger accolades as they have been exposed more. But in my opinion Benji if he did play for QLD in his prime his legend would be even more highly regarded.

 

[Miller was a legend]

As you all know, Val and I are not really best mates, however I do get where he is coming from to some degree. A Cronk / Benji combination would be deadly. However it's unlikely Dragons could hang onto both Widdop and Benji if Cronk came on the money suggested. If you could, then Widdop moves to FB for mine.

Doesn't mean I agree he is only workman like, however as stated above Benji/ Cronk would be awesome.

 

[Saintsified]

LOL that will do me.

Here's a scenario: imagine Queensland WITHOUT Cronk. I've seen it. NSW actually won a series. That speaks volumes about the man's influence.

As OT pointed out Benji is a fantastic 5/8, but Cronk is a better halfback by a significant margin.

Straight Shooter

OK let's straighten this convo up a little, I never said Benji was a better 7 I said in my opinion he is there better player.

Benji can play 7 like Cronk, can Cronk play 6 or centre or fullback like Benji could? , I know Benji can be freaky and embarrassing but my point is and remains Benji did bigger things in substandard teams, Cronk always played with superstars around him. Will be interesting to see at Saint's what he could do though. I'm guessing not much.

 

[The Nick]

OK let's straighten this convo up a little, I never said Benji was a better 7 I said in my opinion he is there better player.

Benji can play 7 like Cronk, can Cronk play 6 or centre or fullback like Benji could? , I know Benji can be freaky and embarrassing but my point is and remains Benji did bigger things in substandard teams, Cronk always played with superstars around him. Will be interesting to see at Saint's what he could do though. I'm guessing not much.

Let me stop you right there. No he can't. He definitely can not. Not even close. I can't shut this idea down enough.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Benji isn't that type of player. He is a 5/8 through and through. Play what's in front of him. Cronk is a master craftsman at controlling a game. Set plays and great kicking game.

Very different players and Benji struggles to be anything other than a brilliant gut instinct player

 

[Saintsified]

Let me stop you right there. No he can't. He definitely can not. Not even close. I can't shut this idea down enough.

7 on his back all year proves you're wrong.lol

 

[Saintsified]

Anyway it doesn't matter, we will all back the players based on what type of game we personally like to see them play....for eg I always preferred Brett Kenny over Wally Lewis...but that's just me.

 

[Miller was a legend]

He didn't play a traditional 7 roll though.

This is what Val has been talking about, I think, dragons are playing with two 5/8 on the paddock. The responsibility to try and control the game is resting on both and at times it doesn't work

 

[The Nick]

7 on his back all year proves you're wrong.lol

Wow you must be related to Dino and OV?

So what you're saying is anyone who wore a 7 on their back this year can play halfback like Cooper Cronk?

Jack De Belin wore a 7 on his back this year.

 

[The Nick]

Actually the only reason Benji wasn't in the QLD was because he stayed loyal to NZ...had he if accepted then JT wouldn't have been there....with QLD and the loyalty they show Benji would still be in the team.

Jesus how did I miss this?

 

[Saintsified]

Wow you must be related to Dino and OV?

So what you're saying is anyone who wore a 7 on their back this year can play halfback like Cooper Cronk?

Jack De Belin wore a 7 on his back this year.

I was being sarcastic, Benji may not be as good as Cronk at 7 but he is still capable of playing a decent 7....can Cronk play any other position? Benji did and can...so for me he is overall the better player.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Bloody Sharks. Robson wore 7 as well and we let him go to Warriors. FFS��

 

[Saintsified]

Jesus how did I miss this?

Nothing to miss, when Benji was the worlds best player JT was no where near what he is today. Benji could've played for QLD but chose not too back when he was coming through.

 

[Vasilevsky]

7 on his back all year proves you're wrong.lol

I guess it's a question of what "playing like Cronk" really means. Playing No.7? You are absolutely right. Last season shows that he can not only play No.7 but do it very well. Up with the best in the competition, i.e. Cronk. I still think he would be better at 5/8. Can Cronk play well at 5/8? I very much doubt it. So do other supposedly unbiased judges or else Thurston wouldn't have been moved to 5/8 for QLD and Aus.

 

[Saintsified]

I guess it's a question of what "playing like Cronk" really means. Playing No.7? You are absolutely right. Last season shows that he can not only play No.7 but do it very well. Up with the best in the competition, i.e. Cronk. I still think he would be better at 5/8. Can Cronk play well at 5/8? I very much doubt it. So do other supposedly unbiased judges or else Thurston wouldn't have been moved to 5/8 for QLD and Aus.

Im not saying Cronk isnt a supestar, but over the years when Benji played for tigers i used to shit myself when he got the ball anywhere near our line....that final in 2010 was scary as shit.....05 semi as well....Benji frightened me, i never get that feeling against Cronk, im not taking away his ability or anything he is amazing, but again im talking value for money.

BENJI 550K ability to play multiple positions if need be adequately v CRONK 1M per season and just a half back...no thanks

 

[Vasilevsky]

Before I start my reply, I will say I am for Benji playing out his career with us with Widdop as his partner.

Now for the reply. You are comparing apples and oranges when you are comparing the oppositions in those games. How can you compare when Benji played without Widdop against the Tigers and vice versa against the Broncos? 2 completely different classes. The Tigers season was already over and against the Broncos was in front of a hostile crowd with a forward for his partner. Hardly comparable matches. I could elaborate further, but you catch my drift.

Now of course I will bring up the Warriors game where Benji went down early and we flogged them but you will say but Johnson did not play. Yes, that accounts for them being held to zip, but since when did Johnson do all the tackling to stop the 42 points being put on them.

I would also point out when Benji went off against the Dogs it was still 6 - 0 and without Widdop we would not have even been in golden point but predicably, you will say but Widdop kicked it out on the full. Admittedly, if Benji had stayed on, I think we win that game but not just because of Benji but because of the combined effort of having 2 world class halves instead of just one on the paddock. And that is the same for the whole season. Sure, they can combine better, but they still as a pair combined for the 2nd most try assists out of all clubs with Benji placing well in the Dally M and Widdop finished as our top try scorer. I look forward to seeing them further develop their combination this season with our improved pack and backline providing better assistance.

To be perfectly honest, I agree with your basic analysis about continuing forward. I have only ever called Widdop out in reply to homies talking about getting rid of Benji (because he only had the 2nd most try assists in the worst attacking team? Because he only finished 3rd in the Dally M despite playing 3 or 4 fewer games than Widdop? Because the Dragons were only flogged in every game in which Benji didn't play?).

Just a few points. It wasn't only the Brisbane game. The one I remember vividly was the second Shonkies game. Surely if the team wasn't so depleted already Widdop would have been hooked. It was at least one or two more games as well. Maybe more.

The Tigers gave the Warriors one of the biggest blood lettings of the year the week after the Dragons and then the Dragons beat the Tigers one or two weeks later.

The point is that the competition is very even. Almost any team can beat almost any other any given week providing teams with one especially vital player is playing. Like NZ with Johnson, NQ with Thurston or based on last season, Dragons without Marshall.

Dude, I've been through all this before! He will either:
Not reply;
Come up with a questionable-at-best justification as to why Benji's 2 point win over Tigers is somehow greater than Widdops 40 point win over Warriors, and that Widdop partnered with JDB against Broncos is identical to Benji partnered with Hutch against Tigpies; OR
Start another rant that has nothing to do with the valid examples you've just mentioned.

Then in about a week, he will derail another thread, mention that noone has been able to produce an example of a game Widdop has controlled, list the same arguments (i.e Benji out vs Widdop out) and the process will start over!

Happy? Can we be friends again now?

 

[Vasilevsky]

Im not saying Cronk isnt a supestar, but over the years when Benji played for tigers i used to shit myself when he got the ball anywhere near our line....that final in 2010 was scary as shit.....05 semi as well....Benji frightened me, i never get that feeling against Cronk, im not taking away his ability or anything he is amazing, but again im talking value for money.

BENJI 550K ability to play multiple positions if need be adequately v CRONK 1M per season and just a half back...no thanks

Cronk 1mil per season and Benji 550k???? God have mercy! I'll take Benji without the slightest hesitation.

 

[Saintsified]

Cronk 1mil per season and Benji 550k???? God have mercy! I'll take Benji without the slightest hesitation.

Actually they are talking 3.5m over 3 seasons lol. He isn't double the player Benji is....no chance.

 

[BrissyRedV]

As you all know, Val and I are not really best mates, however I do get where he is coming from to some degree. A Cronk / Benji combination would be deadly. However it's unlikely Dragons could hang onto both Widdop and Benji if Cronk came on the money suggested. If you could, then Widdop moves to FB for mine.

Doesn't mean I agree he is only workman like, however as stated above Benji/ Cronk would be awesome.

A Cronk / Widdop would be premiership winning....