Cooper cronk

[Cagey Mac]

I bumped into Trent Barrett this morning and if we're considering the value of Cooper Cronk Vs Marshall I think he should be in the mix too. He looks pretty fit and is only a bit older.

 

[The Nick]

I bumped into Trent Barrett this morning and if we're considering the value of Cooper Cronk Vs Marshall I think he should be in the mix too. He looks pretty fit and is only a bit older.

Well he looks younger than Ben Creagh!

 

[Jubileeboy]

I bumped into Trent Barrett this morning and if we're considering the value of Cooper Cronk Vs Marshall I think he should be in the mix too. He looks pretty fit and is only a bit older.

Lol...he should have been a bread maker, he's that doughy

 

[Cagey Mac]

Lol...he should have been a bread maker, he's that doughy

That's pretty funny JB he was actually at a bakery ordering coffee
I wished him luck and told him I was looking forward his clash with Browny

(I just edited this I meant clash with Browny)

 

[Jubileeboy]

That's pretty funny JB he was actually at a bakery ordering coffee
I wished him luck and told him I was looking forward his crash with Browny

Hahaha....see !
:lol:

 

[giboz71]

Still baffles me that a backline containing Benji, Widdop, Dugan, Nighty (who is apparently the 2nd best winger in the comp) and now Lafai and Mann and we still think we need to throw over a million a year at another half.

Add in a few handy reserves in Peter M, Aitken, FFL and Milne, how many teams have this talent on paper? Only Brisbane and the Roosters come to mind,

Cowboys won the comp with the likes of O'Neill, Linnett, Coote, Winterstein and Feldt - hardly worldbeaters there. The Sharks came within a game of top 4 with Robson and a 19yr old Bird as their havles. And Beale and Leutele don't scare anyone.

Our backline, now we have extra grunt in the forwards should really be knocking on the door of the top 4. If this group can't make it work, the clearly we have problems. Again its all about chemistry and this is where a lack of a quality attacking coach will rear its ugly head.

 

[Vasilevsky]

You know Cronk played 2nd row in the QLD Cup, right? And upon debuting with Melbourne he played a utility role off the bench covering hooker, lock and halves (yes including 5/8).

He developed into a halfback under the tutelage of Matthew Johns.

So yes, he can cover several positions, making him slightly more versatile than Benji who can switch between 6 and 7.......

The question wasn't weather Cronk can play in all these positions. I'm sure both he and Benji would give their best if they were playing prop. The question was whether Cronk can play well 5/8 as Benji can at 1/2. I doubt it and obviously people who matter doubt it otherwise they wouldn't have moved Thurston to 5/8 for QLD and Australia.

 

[Vasilevsky]

If so, I reserve the right to argue any point of yours I disagree with. I assume you reserve the same right.

Absolutely not. Nobody may disagree with me but of course I'm free to disagree with whomever I like.

Lenin said: "The international bourgeois has just murdered 10 and maimed another 20 million men and they call this "justified". Yet, these same bourgeois will call anyone killed in the Russian Revolution, "a crime".

 

[Vasilevsky]

Still baffles me that a backline containing Benji, Widdop, Dugan, Nighty (who is apparently the 2nd best winger in the comp) and now Lafai and Mann and we still think we need to throw over a million a year at another half.

Add in a few handy reserves in Peter M, Aitken, FFL and Milne, how many teams have this talent on paper? Only Brisbane and the Roosters come to mind,

Cowboys won the comp with the likes of O'Neill, Linnett, Coote, Winterstein and Feldt - hardly worldbeaters there. The Sharks came within a game of top 4 with Robson and a 19yr old Bird as their havles. And Beale and Leutele don't scare anyone.

Our backline, now we have extra grunt in the forwards should really be knocking on the door of the top 4. If this group can't make it work, the clearly we have problems. Again its all about chemistry and this is where a lack of a quality attacking coach will rear its ugly head.

Of course I agree it would be madness to pay Cronk anymore than 350-400k a season for 2 seasons and an option for a third in the clubs favor given his age. I know he is still a good player now but for how much longer?

I am/was pretty pessimistic about the outside backs. Apart from Dugan, which of them is going to break open a game? However, when you say it like that, I'm much more optimistic.

 

[Cagey Mac]

Absolutely not. Nobody may disagree with me but of course I'm free to disagree with whomever I like.

Lenin said: "The international bourgeois has just murdered 10 and maimed another 20 million men and they call this "justified". Yet, these same bourgeois will call anyone killed in the Russian Revolution, "a crime".

and John Lennon said "How can we go forward when we don't know which way we're facing?"
:sarcasm:

 

[Vasilevsky]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?!

Benji was a 5/8 in 2005 when they won the premiership. QLD had a fairly decent player by the name of Darren Lockyer playing in that position at that time, and he continued playing in that position until his last series in 2011. No way in hell a youngster takes that position from him. They have a choice, then, between a young, exciting actual halfback or a young, exciting centre-come-5/8 to play alongside Lockyer, and there's no way they choose the latter in 2005. Even with Thurston out, Benji's halfback partner Prince would have been preferred. Marshall may have got a bench spot, at best.

From 2006 until 2010, Marshall suffered severe injury issues. By the 2010-11 season, when Marshall was in career best form, QLD had 2 of the best in the world in their halves, plus Cronk established on the bench, where he has the size, defensive capability and overall skillset to fill in at hooker (something Marshall didn't have). In 2012, following Lockyers retirement, the Tigpies plank, Marshall loses form (particularly at halfback), and with that, all chance of getting elected to take their reigns for QLD. Meanings then sticks with his original plan of shifting JT to 5/8 and starting Cronk at 7.

In summary, no, Benji would not have been elected over JT at halfback, JT would still be the superstar he is today and Cronk would still be the best 7 in the world!

Purely hypothetical on all fronts. There was a time when Benji used to embarrass Thurston and Lockyer.

 

[giboz71]

Of course I agree it would be madness to pay Cronk anymore than 350-400k a season for 2 seasons and an option for a third in the clubs favor given his age. I know he is still a good player now but for how much longer?

I am/was pretty pessimistic about the outside backs. Apart from Dugan, which of them is going to break open a game? However, when you say it like that, I'm much more optimistic.

All I'm saying is that that a lot of other clubs have produced much better results with much less quality. I can think of at least 10 clubs who would kill for the names in our backline. Broncos, Cowboys, Roosters, Storm, maybe Manly have bigger names, but apart from them who boasts a better backline on paper??

We have brought in a procession of expensive backline stars since 2013 - Widdop, Dugan and then Benji. And we have seen little if no improvement in our attack. I just think throwing a lazy million at Cronk won't necessarily transform our attack. It hasn't previously with the players I have mentioned.

To me, the problem lies elsewhere. It seems we don't have the requisite footy smarts in our coaching staff to make our attack click. Lot of quality assistants around (Browny for the Storm, Walters and Kearney at the Broncos, Wrigley at the Roosters just to name a few from last year.

I's be looking more at this more than throwing a wad of cash at another expensive superstar.

 

[The Nick]

The question wasn't weather Cronk can play in all these positions. I'm sure both he and Benji would give their best if they were playing prop. The question was whether Cronk can play well 5/8 as Benji can at 1/2. I doubt it and obviously people who matter doubt it otherwise they wouldn't have moved Thurston to 5/8 for QLD and Australia.

Actually Thurston was never "moved to 5/8" to accommodate Cronk, he actually pursued to the move to 5/8 following Lockyer's retirement.

Thurston - crowned the best player in the game last month - is keen to walk away from the halfback position he has dominated the past few seasons.
He claims Lockyer's retirement following last month's victorious Four Nations triumph presents the perfect opportunity to make the shift as he looks to fill Lockyer's boots for both Queensland and Australia.

And he doesn't want to stop there, saying he has already spoken to North Queensland coach Neil Henry about making the move for the Cowboys as well.

"I've made no secret that I want to play six - I'm very familiar with that role, I played it all through my juniors, I moved to the Bulldogs as a six, I made my debut there, the Cowboys recruited me as a six," Thurston said.
"No. 7, you're on the ball a lot more. Playing alongside Locky so much - he likes to sit out the back and get the ball when he's ready. That's what I'd like to do as well."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ove-to-no-6-20111207-1ojjx.html#ixzz3wVz6jBri
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[Cagey Mac]

All I can think of at least 10 clubs who would kill for the names in our backline. Broncos, Cowboys, Roosters, Storm, maybe Manly have bigger names, but apart from them who boasts a better backline on paper??

3/4 combinations are incredibly important to both attack and defence and we had relative novices in those positions, with the exception of Nighty who was playing busted. IMO that's why Mary sought to remedy that problem with the acquisition of Lafai and moving Dugan to the centres.
Ball playing back rowers obviously come into the mix as well.

Mary must already have his mind made up about the direction he's going to take as these combos won't miraculously gel from the getgo.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Actually Thurston was never "moved to 5/8" to accommodate Cronk, he actually pursued to the move to 5/8 following Lockyer's retirement.

QLD and NQ couldn't give a f**k what he wanted if it weren't best for the team. And Thurston was probably just being polite. He had Cronk for QLD and Aus who he thought couldn't play 5/8 and Lui at NQ who he thought couldn't play 5/8.

Of course it's different for Australia where money and politics are more important than form and ability.

 

[BennyV]

Purely hypothetical on all fronts. There was a time when Benji used to embarrass Thurston and Lockyer.

Of course it's hypothetical! The whole premise of 'if Benji didn't commit to NZ...' Was the beginning of a hypothetical argue meant!

And Benji never 'embarrassed' Lockyer and JT. Benji's most dominant years (2010-2011) involved several battles with Lockyer that were majorly pushed as the 'two best 5/8s in the world doing battle' through the media, and in all bar 1 Lockyer dominated. The 1 he didn't was a very close game.

Can't recall any Benji vs JT battles, but hard to consider JT embarrassed by anyone!

 

[giboz71]

3/4 combinations are incredibly important to both attack and defence and we had relative novices in those positions, with the exception of Nighty who was playing busted. IMO that's why Mary sought to remedy that problem with the acquisition of Lafai and moving Dugan to the centres.
Ball playing back rowers obviously come into the mix as well.

Mary must already have his mind made up about the direction he's going to take as these combos won't miraculously gel from the getgo.

Agreed, but surely Dugan, Benji and Widdop should have partially made for this?

As for 3/4's Cowboys won the comp without a star centre or winger (or FB for that matter). The Sharks backline has nowhere near the stars we have.

And you need to remember that 14 out 15 sides scored more points than us last year - and we ran out of steam towards the end of the season when our great defence eventually found it too hard to defend 12 points a game.

Agree Mary seems to be trying to rectify this with the recruitment of Mann and Lafai and the supposed move of Dugan to the centres.

But fair dinkum if we don't score points this year with the players we have - then nothing short of a complete clean out of the attacking coaches should occur.

 

[The Nick]

QLD and NQ couldn't give a f**k what he wanted if it weren't best for the team. And Thurston was probably just being polite. He had Cronk for QLD and Aus who he thought couldn't play 5/8 and Lui at NQ who he thought couldn't play 5/8.

Of course it's different for Australia where money and politics are more important than form and ability.

LOL ok. Just because you say so.

 

[Cagey Mac]

Agreed, but surely Dugan, Benji and Widdop should have partially made for this?

As for 3/4's Cowboys won the comp without a star centre or winger (or FB for that matter). The Sharks backline has nowhere near the stars we have.

And you need to remember that 14 out 15 sides scored more points than us last year - and we ran out of steam towards the end of the season when our great defence eventually found it too hard to defend 12 points a game.

Agree Mary seems to be trying to rectify this with the recruitment of Mann and Lafai and the supposed move of Dugan to the centres.

But fair dinkum if we don't score points this year with the players we have - then nothing short of a complete clean out of the attacking coaches should occur.

They don't need to be stars but they need to be good and able to work in combination with others. You can't make up for it with any number of superstars in other positions. Mary obviously thinks that we weren't up to scratch in that area.

 

[Vasilevsky]

LOL ok. Just because you say so.

Of course. Why else would it be so?