Cooper cronk

[Vasilevsky]

Of course it's hypothetical! The whole premise of 'if Benji didn't commit to NZ...' Was the beginning of a hypothetical argue meant!

And Benji never 'embarrassed' Lockyer and JT. Benji's most dominant years (2010-2011) involved several battles with Lockyer that were majorly pushed as the 'two best 5/8s in the world doing battle' through the media, and in all bar 1 Lockyer dominated. The 1 he didn't was a very close game.

Can't recall any Benji vs JT battles, but hard to consider JT embarrassed by anyone!

You have a very good memory. Not perfect. Far from it. Think the GF between NQ and Tigers and think numerous or all the important games between NZ and Aus for 2 or 3 years. I think it was the World Cup and Four Nations x 2.

Then there are normal club games from 9 or 10 years ago which I very much doubt even you can remember.

 

[Weipa Dragon]

I just read that if we give Pete M a release he will be off to the goldy. Good for them and good for him having a straight up centre position to go to. He is good but I think aitken could be great and it would allow aitken to own the spot with hopefully this Milne or fai fai who we know can score points on the wing next to him. Dragons look very good on paper; here is hoping Benny hornbty has a move or two up his sleeve.

 

[giboz71]

They don't need to be stars but they need to be good and able to work in combination with others. You can't make up for it with any number of superstars in other positions. Mary obviously thinks that we weren't up to scratch in that area.

Bingo!!

So perhaps our recruitment needs to be more aware of this requirement and focus on a players ability to contribute to a TEAM as opposed individual stats which doesn't lead to results.

The fact that Dugan is our highest paid player, it's pretty obvious that this has never been a key requirement in recent years.

 

[coast_dragons]

Overall the squad looks better balanced for 2016.

 

[giboz71]

Overall the squad looks better balanced for 2016.

I agree.

Cagey made a good point earlier. You don't necessarily need superstars, just players who can combine well with their team mates. The fact that the Cows won a comp with a largely unheralded back 5 is a testament to this.

Hopefully the recruitment of Mann and Lafai will have the same effect on us.

 

[Minh]

Overall the squad looks better balanced for 2016.

+1

 

[Minh]

I just read that if we give Pete M a release he will be off to the goldy. Good for them and good for him having a straight up centre position to go to. He is good but I think aitken could be great and it would allow aitken to own the spot with hopefully this Milne or fai fai who we know can score points on the wing next to him. Dragons look very good on paper; here is hoping Benny hornbty has a move or two up his sleeve.

Agee, I would definately 100% take Aitken over Peter M even though I rate Peter M as a very decent player...

 

[The Nick]

I agree.

Cagey made a good point earlier. You don't necessarily need superstars, just players who can combine well with their team mates. The fact that the Cows won a comp with a largely unheralded back 5 is a testament to this.

Hopefully the recruitment of Mann and Lafai will have the same effect on us.

A "largely unheralded back 5" is balanced out by the likes of Thurston, Scott, Morgan, Tamou, hell even chuck Hannant in there.

Remove just Thurston from their grand final side and there goes their premiership.

So yeah your theory is largely untested.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Overall the squad looks better balanced for 2016.

+2.

The Depth in the squad is a massive improvement to last couple of years.

All spots are covered even in the halves with McCrone who has a heap of experience together with Hutch.

 

[giboz71]

A "largely unheralded back 5" is balanced out by the likes of Thurston, Scott, Morgan, Tamou, hell even chuck Hannant in there.

Remove just Thurston from their grand final side and there goes their premiership.

So yeah your theory is largely untested.

Which goes back to my point I made earlier that any perceived weaknesses in our centres/wingers last year should have been somewhat alleviated by Dugan/Widdop/Marshall (our 3 most expensive players). It wasn't.

Sure, we may not have the Cowboys big guns, but our big 3 aren't mugs either. And generally, our forwards held their own last year. Our attack should have been better than it was.

I'm hoping that 2 new centres (Dugan and Lafai) and Mann at FB can solve the problem.

 

[coast_dragons]

Thats what I like about the McCrone signing.

Sure he isn't a superstar but he has experience and its needed he can cover 6,7 and 9 which the Dragons just didn't have.

I was disappointed they didn't at least give Crook a go but they must have had their reasons and he's gone now.

If you look at the overall picture of signings to departures other then Merrin the guys coming in and a hell of alot better then the ones who have left.

To lose only Merrin but pick up guys like lafai, Mann, Packer and Co in my book is a rather exciting.

 

[BennyV]

You have a very good memory. Not perfect. Far from it. Think the GF between NQ and Tigers and think numerous or all the important games between NZ and Aus for 2 or 3 years. I think it was the World Cup and Four Nations x 2.

Then there are normal club games from 9 or 10 years ago which I very much doubt even you can remember.

Apart from a single flick pass, Prince was the star of that Grand Final, not Benji!
And the only significant NZ win over Australia that comes to mind involving Benji was more Slater embarrassing himself than anything else!

End of the day, they were/are all brilliant players for different reasons. But I don't think history will show Marshall making fools of either Lockyer or Thurston. If I were to have any of the three at Dragons for their whole career, it wouldn't be Benji.

 

[The Nick]

Which goes back to my point I made earlier that any perceived weaknesses in our centres/wingers last year should have been somewhat alleviated by Dugan/Widdop/Marshall (our 3 most expensive players). It wasn't.

Sure, we may not have the Cowboys big guns, but our big 3 aren't mugs either. And generally, our forwards held their own last year. Our attack should have been better than it was.

I'm hoping that 2 new centres (Dugan and Lafai) and Mann at FB can solve the problem.

With you now. Agreed.

 

[Cagey Mac]

You can't mitigate the problem of even one inadequate centre with any number of superstars in other positions. It's a really tough position. When Manly lost Craig Innes to injury, a brilliant defensive and very good attacking centre, they lost their mojo. Manly now without Jamie Lyon are half the team.
Halves can't cover for centres in defence and if fullbacks do, they tire and lose their edge.
Mary was a damned good centre and I think has competed potentially completed the jigsaw with this lineup.

 

[coast_dragons]

Its the difference between Benji and Widdop.

One is very structured the other ad lib and off the cuff.

Getting that balance right between structured and fancy must be difficult and its one job i would hate to have.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Difference is Benji achieved EVERYTHING too early in his career. He dominated the comp by 25 and then lost the desire as he has stated a few times. The Tigers won the comp when they were not even spoken about as a threat. I know Cronk has achieved a lot as has JT but they never won a comp and captained their country to a World Cup and Four Nations at 25? I don't know many in the whole history of the game that have? Pretty rare feat which does not get the credit it deserves. If Benji was an Aussie he would have won a stack of Origins as well and been spoken about as an immortal but because he is not an Aussie he isn't even thought off. How many KIWI's are talked about as immortals? Exactly? Not saying the NRL has an issue with KIWI's but because they don't play origin they don't get as much of a chance to get spoken about as immortals.

Of all KIWI's to play the game Benji would be my pick if any are to become an immortal.

 

[giboz71]

You can't mitigate the problem of even one inadequate centre with any number of superstars in other positions. It's a really tough position. When Manly lost Craig Innes to injury, a brilliant defensive and very good attacking centre, they lost their mojo. Manly now without Jamie Lyon are half the team.
Halves can't cover for centres in defence and if fullbacks do, they tire and lose their edge.
Mary was a damned good centre and I think has competed potentially completed the jigsaw with this lineup.

Were Peter M and Aitken really that bad?? I would have thought say compared to Linnett and O'Neill, they would not be out of place.

Sure Aitken was a rookie but had a very good season, and was even recognised with a PM XIII jersey. And Peter M is vastly underrated as a centre IMO. Having said that, having Lafai and Dugan as our starters is a big upgrade.

Think there were other reasons why our attack stunk last year - formation and coaching primarily. The formation problem is being addressed, not sure where we are with the attacking coach however?

 

[coast_dragons]

The coaching was and may still be an issue in regards to attacking motion but players like Widdop and Marshall surely they would have to realise crabbing across field doesn't work which they are guilty of.

Maybe it was a lack of trust in the centres and wingers but inside the 20 with two international standard players at times they looked like a deer in the headlights and other times they looked like world beaters.

The inconsistancey was a huge problem and hopefully its been addressed.

 

[giboz71]

Thats what I like about the McCrone signing.

Sure he isn't a superstar but he has experience and its needed he can cover 6,7 and 9 which the Dragons just didn't have.

I was disappointed they didn't at least give Crook a go but they must have had their reasons and he's gone now.

If you look at the overall picture of signings to departures other then Merrin the guys coming in and a hell of alot better then the ones who have left.

To lose only Merrin but pick up guys like lafai, Mann, Packer and Co in my book is a rather exciting.

I don't mind McCrone's signing either. Others on here don't rate him and I agree he won't win any games on his back, but he could prove handy.

Assume he'll play the role that Keating was supposed to play last year. it's a long season and injuries will play their part - I'm betting he'll play a few games this year.

 

[coast_dragons]

I think he will be on the bench first rd as Havili who imo has potential they may go with the experience against a hard nosed veteran team like the Storm.