Corey Norman??

[Richard Norton]

One would assume that Millward knew the end date of Frizell's deal many months in advance. He should have extended his contract well in advance and inside the period other clubs could target Frizell. I suppose using Vaugan as an example - was signed and then extended and upgraded well before his contract was due to end and well before other clubs could target him.

One would assume that Millward knew the end date of Frizell's deal many months in advance. He should have extended his contract well in advance and inside the period other clubs could target Frizell. I suppose using Vaugan as an example - was signed and then extended and upgraded well before his contract was due to end and well before other clubs could target him.

Possm, let me assure you, Frizz is NOT a fan of Mary.
Friz leaving had absolutely NOTHING to do with Millward.
The issues between Mary and Friz stem back to the start of the JDB saga.
They also include issues with Marys game plan and how he uses Friz.
Why do you think he switched Friz to the other side of the field?
A little to late though.
All the blame people place on Millward for the departed players, but, is it Millward that isnt promoting them?
Millward gets them signed up, its McNoIdea that costs us them.
Millward gets told we need position X, Y, and Z filled, so he fills those positions.
We have a great team on paper, the issue is they arent performing, that isnt Millwards fault, thats Marys fault.

 

[True_Believer]

The problem is with recruitment/retention/pathways. Millward is in charge of those areas. Why all the protection around 'old boy Millward'. Like Dean Young he only got the job because his father was a power broker at SGI at the time. I say clean out the old boys who did not have to win their job.

There's no "protection" at all. It's about taking a step outside the narrow view and being realistic about the situation. You, and DP have both stated that he needs to take responsibility because he's an old boy.

He is an old boy and he's not perfect. But that doesn't mean he is automatically doing everything wrong. That's the blinkers you've got on. You see fault in everything he does because he's an old boy (and you've said so many times). And that's the end of the discussion on your part. That and this bizarre org structure you've got stuck in your head.

 

[possm]

Possm, let me assure you, Frizz is NOT a fan of Mary.
Friz leaving had absolutely NOTHING to do with Millward.
The issues between Mary and Friz stem back to the start of the JDB saga.
They also include issues with Marys game plan and how he uses Friz.
Why do you think he switched Friz to the other side of the field?
A little to late though.
All the blame people place on Millward for the departed players, but, is it Millward that isnt promoting them?
Millward gets them signed up, its McNoIdea that costs us them.
Millward gets told we need position X, Y, and Z filled, so he fills those positions.
We have a great team on paper, the issue is they arent performing, that isnt Millwards fault, thats Marys fault.

Millward often fronts the media claiming great signings and great retentions. He is in charge of the areas of operations that I mentioned. Everyone knows Mary is a dope and incapable of being a successful head coach so no need to pile any more on to him. Millward should share in the glory of being an absolute failure just like Mary. So I say, get rid of both and hire some professionals.

 

[Old Timer]

Millward often fronts the media claiming great signings and great retentions. He is in charge of the areas of operations that I mentioned. Everyone knows Mary is a dope and incapable of being a successful head coach so no need to pile any more on to him. Millward should share in the glory of being an absolute failure just like Mary. So I say, get rid of both and hire some professionals.

possm
I was a critic of Millward but have really spent some time thinking about the mechanics of how our club works and now changed my thinking process
Millward is but a very small cog in the engine room and being a small cig he is directly connected to a lot of other gears and he doesn’t drive them rather they drive him
His only sin is that he is that he fits the “job for the boys” mould and tbh all clubs gave a bit of that in them. Club stalwarts and old players get jobs with in organisations we are not on our own but to us it is all the more obvious.
We have a roster determined by the coach and the roster fits under the cap and in reality in the hands of a decent coach it could be playing regular finals footy.
Millward is neither an attractant or deterrent in signing or retaining players and in fact only a few things determine that ie $$$$, coach, squad, loyalty from juniors.
As I said previously with the fanfare of previously saving Mc Fookknuckle and in fact extending him the BOD said recruitment was being taken away from him to allow him to concentrate 100% on coaching and recruitment would be a department of its own headed up by Millward. That being the case he is therefore the spokesmen and front man and as such is hardly going to talk down the very things he has been given to do.
It is not a given that because he heads up recruitment that he ticks or crosses off names because all he does is put the contracts in front of the people chosen by coach’s and tries to get the $$$ to fit under the cap.
He is not responsible for the picking of or they ultimate selection of players in the squad.
He is little more than an accountant balancing the books.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I see we are back on the Millward merry-go-round.......AGAIN!!!!!

Easy to cast blame on 'somebody' when we're performing poorly.
'why did we let this or that player go'?
'Why didn't we sign this or that player'?
Etc..........

I really couldn't give a flying %^&$ who is or was our recruitement person. The common denominator through ALL that we've had inc: PM, DW and IM and associated support staff, trainers, assistants and God knows who else, is the coach.
I've stated before ad nauseam that our so called coach likes to pick and stick, has one dimensional game plans, plays injured players (with little regard forctheir long term health), doesn't promote young players long term......and the list just goes on and on.

As much as I would have liked Friz to stay, I think he'd reached his ceiling with us, add to the fact that 3 more years at top end salary scale andxwe now have a roadblock on our hands (imo). What would become of young Ford or Fuimaono or even Luke Gale? Why would they hang around for 3yrs waiting? But it would be retentions fault if they left correct?

Many players have moved on because they simply couldn't get a go. Again I come back to the pick and stick etc I mentioned above. So which bracket does this fall into, recruitement or coach?

Those who believe Mc85 has no input into who he wants recruited, well they're just ignorant of the process or simply just want to blame the easy target. McCrone, Lats, Luke, Maranta (and the list goes on and on), all recruited because of 'experience'. Herbert, Garrick, Sele (to name a few) in recent times weren't wanted, even Havili and Lui at the Raiders are now regulars in 1st grade, but unwanted here by our coach.

Millward doesn't pick the players each week, thats the job of the coaching staff. We have and have retained most of our talented younsters, not an easy task in todays environnent, where $$$ speak louder than pride in the jersey.
My judgement of Millward will come once we have a real coach in place and we are free of some of the cap pressure we are under.

As a side note, it will be interesting to see how teams with top heavy recruitement fair over the coming seasons.

 

[True_Believer]

As much as I would have liked Friz to stay, I think he'd reached his ceiling with us, add to the fact that 3 more years at top end salary scale andxwe now have a roadblock on our hands (imo). What would become of young Ford or Fuimaono or even Luke Gale? Why would they hang around for 3yrs waiting? But it would be retentions fault if they left correct?

This is also a key point that many forget about. It's a juggling act and players don't hang around if they see no path into first grade. Realistically we have some great players vying for Frizz's spot - they may not be at his level, but they have serious potential. The problem, as you say, is that we really don't have the coaching staff in place to take advantage of it.

 

[redv13]

No player is leaving because of Millward, they are leaving coz bozo the clown is in charge. Piss Mcflop off and get a real coach ( Flanno ) and watch the difference.
6.5 years of dealing with this muppet each day over and over would be enough for anyone to lose their marbles and move 250kms away

 

[Richard Norton]

Millward often fronts the media claiming great signings and great retentions. He is in charge of the areas of operations that I mentioned. Everyone knows Mary is a dope and incapable of being a successful head coach so no need to pile any more on to him. Millward should share in the glory of being an absolute failure just like Mary. So I say, get rid of both and hire some professionals.

Why so possm? His job is to recruit, which he does.
The failure of the team is in no way associated with Millward.
We needed a front rower, he got us Vaughan.
We needed halves, he signed the best available at the time.
We needed our juniors secured, he secures them.
If the coach says to the recruitment guy "our centres are what i want, so dont look at any others on the market", then the recruitment guy CANT sign any centres, you do get that dont you?
The juniors that have left us, and 1st graders that have left, DID NOT LEAVE BECAUSE OF MILLWARD, they left because of Mary.
Surely you cant lay the same blame on Millward for our teams failures as you lay on Mary?
Millward talks very highly of our juniors, but he cant pick them and give them a run.
Yes some signings arent performing, again, that cant be blamed on Millward.
The f**ked up use of Friz, is that Millwards fault?
The continual selection of Aitken and Lafai, is that Millwards fault?
The dumber then dum game plan, is that Millwards fault?
The mis-use of the bench, is that Millwards fault?
Heck, we may as well blame Millward for the fact the board hasnt been removed!
We may as well blame Millward for Marys extension as coach!
We may as well blame Millward for our teams losses.
We may as well blame Millward for Mat Priors poor perfermances in the red V many moons ago!
We may as well blame Millward for Frizs dislike of Mary.
We may as well blame Millward for Widdop leaving cause of Marys failures as a coach!
The guy does his job, has put together a good team, managed our salary cap, and done whats expected of him.

 

[possm]

No player is leaving because of Millward, they are leaving coz bozo the clown is in charge. Piss Mcflop off and get a real coach ( Flanno ) and watch the difference.
6.5 years of dealing with this muppet each day over and over would be enough for anyone to lose their marbles and move 250kms away

A good recruitment office would have a good sales pitch to convince a desirable long serving top player to stay. All Millward would need to say is :

• Mary is on his way and will be replaced by Flanagan.
• There a quite a few contracts ending in November, so we can match Newcastle's offer.
• If De Belin is not available, we intend to recruit Fifita to replace him.
• You are our most senior forward and we need you to help bring through the young gun forwards we have coming through.
• We want you to be co-captain with McInnes.
• Is there anything else standing in your way that we can discuss?

 

[Richard Norton]

A good recruitment office would have a good sales pitch to convince a desirable long serving top player to stay. All Millward would need to say is :

• Mary is on his way and will be replaced by Flanagan.
• There a quite a few contracts ending in November, so we can match Newcastle's offer.
• If De Belin is not available, we intend to recruit Fifita to replace him.
• You are our most senior forward and we need you to help bring through the young gun forwards we have coming through.
• We want you to be co-captain with McInnes.
• Is there anything else standing in your way that we can discuss?

Possm...
1. The recruitment guy cant tell a player the coach is on his way out.
2. How can the recruitment guy gaurentee Fifita is going to sign?
3. Players coming off contract need to be replaced... player X, with half a brain, would realise that 1st grade players leaving need to be replaced with quality 1st grade players.
4. The recruitment guy cant name the team captain without coach saying it would be so.
I think you have misunderstood what powers a recruitment guy has.
He is the recruitment guy, not the owner of the club.

 

[blacksafake]

A good recruitment office would have a good sales pitch to convince a desirable long serving top player to stay. All Millward would need to say is :

• Mary is on his way and will be replaced by Flanagan.
• There a quite a few contracts ending in November, so we can match Newcastle's offer.
• If De Belin is not available, we intend to recruit Fifita to replace him.
• You are our most senior forward and we need you to help bring through the young gun forwards we have coming through.
• We want you to be co-captain with McInnes.
• Is there anything else standing in your way that we can discuss?

Possm,
Not having a go at you but in answer to your suggestions maybe the following happened.

Just maybe Millward did say L plate was on his way out but Tyson couldn't wait or he's heard it all before.

The offers were very close to each other if you believe the reports.

Fifita is no chance of signing with us.

He's probably sick of how he's been coached & feels it's not his job to "coach" the juniors coming through.

He doesn't appear to be comfortable in the captains role so it maybe wasn't a selling piece for him.

Yes, The coach, the board, the six years of the same game plan,etc etc.

It's obvious everything wrong is around the coach & the board.
Cheers.

 

[Dragonslayer]

A good recruitment office would have a good sales pitch to convince a desirable long serving top player to stay. All Millward would need to say is :

• Mary is on his way and will be replaced by Flanagan.
• There a quite a few contracts ending in November, so we can match Newcastle's offer.
• If De Belin is not available, we intend to recruit Fifita to replace him.
• You are our most senior forward and we need you to help bring through the young gun forwards we have coming through.
• We want you to be co-captain with McInnes.
• Is there anything else standing in your way that we can discuss?

Possm mate seriously.

• how could anyone say that! There is no evidence, other than speculation, the McGregor will even lose his job and Flanno still has to serve out his suspension until 2022. Millward cannot lobby the NRL for a reduction in Flannos sentence, at best that has to come from the CEO (who only started today I believe, the horse had already bolted).
• The offers were identical, if you factor in relocation costs etc, ours may have even been more, particularly over the 1st year. IMO, the figure quoted was in excess of what we should have offered in the first place.
• DeBelins case won't be decided until December, do you really think Fafita is going to hang around and wait for that? What would happen of he is cleared? Further, if Friz wants out (and think about why he wants out) how would the next up and coming star want to come to the Dragons of all places? Consider back to you own point 1.
• Isn't he doing that already?
• Co-captaincy is not a carrot and for Friz it is the least of his concerns
• Anything else?.........yeah, the way I'm being used within the team, our style of play and a myriad of other reasons.

If he even inferred points 1 and 3, and they didn't happen, what would be the legal recourse thrown at the club, my word!!

Friz wants to leave, so be it. It opens the door for some young guns to step up and take that opportunity.

 

[BLM01]

I think it's confusion around the roles/titles.

PM was actually here for 2014/15 as director of retention and recruitment. Millward took over that role when he left at the end of 15. https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2015/10/15/mulholland-departs/

albeit with a new title https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2016/01/08/dragons-announce-key-staff-changes/
This link also states DW came on board.

DW was the role of recruitment manager before being 'poached' by the tigers early 2017 - so he was here for 2016. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we...george-illawarra-dragons-20170104-gtlrfr.html

There looks to be a bit of an overlap of roles there.

Thanks TB
The only thing I knew as certain was why PM left including Mary wanting more control...then not wanting it as could not handle it, that we had DW and when Basil brush started as a reserve grade coach in 14, assistant role 15 and his big promotion 16.
That would be right..overlapping roles...only at the Dragons

 

[redv13]

I reckon possum should take over for Basil..... Let poss off the leash to rack up a superstar squad on a shoestring budget

 

[BLM01]

A good recruitment office would have a good sales pitch to convince a desirable long serving top player to stay. All Millward would need to say is :

• Mary is on his way and will be replaced by Flanagan.
• There a quite a few contracts ending in November, so we can match Newcastle's offer.
• If De Belin is not available, we intend to recruit Fifita to replace him.
• You are our most senior forward and we need you to help bring through the young gun forwards we have coming through.
• We want you to be co-captain with McInnes.
• Is there anything else standing in your way that we can discuss?

Sales Pitch...ha. You got have a marketable product!
Point 1. He cant say that
Point 2. He did say that
Point 3. He cant say that. That could turn out to be promise he could never keep
Point 4. He did say that
Point 5. He did say that
Point 6. He did say that

And your point is?...Why did not Frizzel stay.?.
Ask yourself why?,, and then ask what did Millward have more to offer apart from heaps more money and over paying.

 

[BLM01]

Possm...
1. The recruitment guy cant tell a player the coach is on his way out.
2. How can the recruitment guy gaurentee Fifita is going to sign?
3. Players coming off contract need to be replaced... player X, with half a brain, would realise that 1st grade players leaving need to be replaced with quality 1st grade players.
4. The recruitment guy cant name the team captain without coach saying it would be so.
I think you have misunderstood what powers a recruitment guy has.
He is the recruitment guy, not the owner of the club.

Possm is very aware what a recruitment guy does if he reads.
He just hates nepotism and ex club stalwarts or off spring getting jobs in the place....which he does not have to keep going on about because if he does read...we actually agree
He just likes to blame one of the last few men standing in a high profile position reflecting nepotism which is poor Basil....

Wait till Dean Young gets the head coaching job, Mary is promoted to CEO...Basil to Chairman of the board, Craig Young to Dean's assistant and Shaun Timmins to Basil's job. Ben Hornby and Ben Creagh come back as Dean Young's attacking and defensive coaches. Flo and Tim Lafai as sprint coaches
JDB..player education and welfare (if he is still with us)
Then his blue ink will turn red!

 

[redv13]

Flo and Laf over 40 meters, would be close I reckon

 

[Frank Facer]

Possm,
Not having a go at you but in answer to your suggestions maybe the following happened.

Just maybe Millward did say L plate was on his way out but Tyson couldn't wait or he's heard it all before.

The offers were very close to each other if you believe the reports.

Fifita is no chance of signing with us.

He's probably sick of how he's been coached & feels it's not his job to "coach" the juniors coming through.

He doesn't appear to be comfortable in the captains role so it maybe wasn't a selling piece for him.

Yes, The coach, the board, the six years of the same game plan,etc etc.

It's obvious everything wrong is around the coach & the board.
Cheers.

David Fifita is still unsigned. We certainly have room to accommodate him with Friz leaving. He also made a comment that he could live in Woolongong, but not Sydney or something along those lines. I think we should go all out for him. We should be organising 3rd party deals and making him our number 1 target. Yes, it probably won't happen, but we have to give it our best shot. He would be the best signing we have made since I started supporting us 41 years ago. Mary won't be here for much longer, so he shouldn't be a blockage either.

David Fifita from Brissy is also a cousin of Andrew Fifita. Andrew was full of praise for Flanno for his development on and off the field. Hopefully Andrew can encourage David from Brissy to join us.

 

[Frank Facer]

Sales Pitch...ha. You got have a marketable product!
Point 1. He cant say that
Point 2. He did say that
Point 3. He cant say that. That could turn out to be promise he could never keep
Point 4. He did say that
Point 5. He did say that
Point 6. He did say that

And your point is?...Why did not Frizzel stay.?.
Ask yourself why?,, and then ask what did Millward have more to offer apart from heaps more money and over paying

Dragon Bill may have given the reason Frizzel didn't stay? Because he doesn't get on with Flanno, who may be our future coach. Here's hoping.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

There's no "protection" at all. It's about taking a step outside the narrow view and being realistic about the situation. You, and DP have both stated that he needs to take responsibility because he's an old boy.

He is an old boy and he's not perfect. But that doesn't mean he is automatically doing everything wrong. That's the blinkers you've got on. You see fault in everything he does because he's an old boy (and you've said so many times). And that's the end of the discussion on your part. That and this bizarre org structure you've got stuck in your head.

I said that he should share some of the responsibility.
My main thrust was jobs for the boys...