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Twizzle

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Darren Lehmann and Brett Lee clash after David Saker quits
AUSTRALIA

Darren Lehmann and Brett Lee didn't see eye-to-eye.Source: FOX SPORTS
Darren Lehmann and Brett Lee butted heads in the Fox Cricket commentary box last night as they watched the Hurricanes cement top spot in the Big Bash with a win over the Renegades in Hobart.

The former Australian teammates didn’t see eye-to-eye on the best course of action after national team bowling coach David Saker resigned with immediate effect on Thursday, as Lehmann branded the fast bowling legend’s ideas “rubbish”.

Lee said international bowlers are surrounded by too many voices and are at risk of being over-coached, calling for a part-time bowling coach to be part of the Australian set-up rather than a full-time one, as Saker was.

“I’d have a part-time bowling coach because sometimes I think a bowling coach is limited to what he can teach the young guys coming through but also to make sure that you’re doing things on the ground with the current team,” Lee said in commentary.


“Maybe before a tournament starts, come in for a week, do a few top-ups at the start of the season. I just don’t think they need a bowling coach for 300 days a year.

“It’s good to keep it fresh otherwise the bowling coach becomes stale.”

Lehmann, who worked alongside Saker when he was in charge of Australia before quitting after the ball tampering scandal, completely disagreed and said it was vital the core group of bowlers had a trusted figure they could turn to.

Lehmann said he was OK with players seeing personal coaches in their own time for advice but it was still important once they came into camp they had someone overseeing their work.

“I think that’s rubbish,” Lehmann said of Lee’s plan. “Your bowling group need to have a guy they can go to and really be part of that coaching (staff).

“I want a guy there full-time … one guy’s got to oversee it all.

“You have to have that one focal point as a coach but there’s no reason players can’t see other coaches.

“You’ll still got to have that one central point.”

Lehmann’s argument couldn’t sway Lee, the owner of 310 Test wickets and 380 ODI scalps, as the iconic speedster doubled down on his position.

“What I see with the Australian cricket team and when I was there, there’s too many people involved,” he said.

“When I was playing you get to the stage with a bowling coach where you do your work with them in the first couple of weeks (of the season), which is fantastic …

“A bowling coach is very important but in limited space and timings. I don’t think it should be there full-time.”

Lee later re-tweeted one of his follwers who supported his stance on social media.


@BrettLee_58 could not agree more with bowling coach being part time. Over coached.


Mitchell Starc inadvertently put the microscope on Saker after he revealed he chased outside help to overcome the struggles that have plagued him this summer. The left-armer had been below his best against India but roared back to life by taking 10 wickets against Sri Lanka in the final Test in Canberra.

Speaking afterwards, Starc said he turned to his state bowling coach — former Kiwi all-rounder Andre Adams — and ignored the opinions of armchair critics. Pointedly, there was no mention of Saker when explaining how he got back to his best.

“I’ve done a bit of work throughout the year with Andre and it was great to talk to him about getting that feeling back,” Starc said.

“Rather than having to do anything technically, I’ve played enough cricket to know what works and doesn’t work and to go back to things that set me straight.

“It was more that feeling of the ball coming out of the hand nicely and getting timing and rhythm back. It’s been great to chat to him and even Mitch Johnson and other guys I’ve worked with quite closely over the years to get that mindset back.”

Australia’s fast bowlers had plenty of knockers during their Test series against India, while Saker was publicly critical of their approach at the SCG. Saker revealed during that match “aggressive” and “animated” discussions took place behind closed doors.

“That’s not like me usually … I know I was not the only one. JL (coach Justin Langer) wasn’t happy. The bowlers know that,” Saker said.

“The bowlers wanted one thing. Tim (Paine) wanted one thing … you could see there was some confusion.”

Saker had been Australia’s bowling coach since 2016 but has now been replaced by Troy Cooley — who has previously held the role — for upcoming ODI series against India and Pakistan as Cricket Australia is yet to make a call on a full-time appointment.

Saker boasted plenty of knowledge about UK conditions, having previously worked as England’s bowling coach before returning home to mentor Victoria. But Langer was keen to bring in a fresh perspective for this year’s marathon tour of England, during which Australia will defend both the World Cup and Ashes, and Saker accepted it was time to go.

“We shook hands and had a hug a day after the Test (in Canberra),” Langer said. “We agreed it’s the right time to head in a different direction in the best interests of the team.

“He and I have had a lot of conversations over the last six or nine months, so it’s not really a surprise.

“In a perfect world it would have been cleaner maybe at the end of it, but the world’s not always clean and works exactly as you want it to work. I’m all good with it.”

Saker had previously spoken of his desire to be a potential successor to Lehmann in 2017, when he filled in as head coach during a ODI tour of India.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricke...2-c4oAGLiNP2NZXzvqxk9q7PKwptIy_cczjy20-cp2Et8
 

Twizzle

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FTR I thnk Bing is spot on here while Boof shoots himself in the foot by saying we need a full time coach and he doesn't mind if players also seek their own private bowling coach.

If that isn't being over coached, I dont know what is.
 

Bazal

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Lol they didn't really "butt heads". It was quite a good discussion actually
 

AlwaysGreen

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I'm going to sound like Chaps here.

How does a first class bowler coach a Test class bowler or a Hick coach a Steve Smith?

These guys know how their body works, their actions etc, that's why they're test players.

Once these guys reach a certain level having a coach is not going to improve them, having someone who knows them advising them from time to time is a much better approach.
 

Bazal

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On the flip side, what does a batting-opening gnome like JL know about bowling as a head coach ?

I don't think the issue is with having specific coaches for each discipline. I think the issue is that we have very rarely had the right people in those positions
 

hineyrulz

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Surely Lee knows plenty more than Lehman considering he played plenty more for Australia????

Well going by Boof logic???
 

Twizzle

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I'm going to sound like Chaps here.

How does a first class bowler coach a Test class bowler or a Hick coach a Steve Smith?

These guys know how their body works, their actions etc, that's why they're test players.

Once these guys reach a certain level having a coach is not going to improve them, having someone who knows them advising them from time to time is a much better approach.

oh come on Chapelli, by that logic Wally Lewis should have been a brilliant coach

Bellyache and ol' Benny would disagree too, was almost going to use Gus an example but we have to draw the line some where
 

TheParraboy

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Is Greg Blewett still the fielding coach

Appropriate surname for that disaster of a discipline we have been dishing out in recent times. I’d imagine he would be very part time?

Back on Lee and Boof, I kinda see both points of view. A seasoned campaigner doesn’t need a FT bowling coach. Part timer is enough , then get someone as and if needed

With 3 formats and lots of newer younger guys coming and going from the side, this day and age a FT bowling coach makes sense. As Bazal mentioned probably more important getting the right person more than anything else

Boof 1
Bollywood Lee 0
 

Bazal

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Is Greg Blewett still the fielding coach

Appropriate surname for that disaster of a discipline we have been dishing out in recent times. I’d imagine he would be very part time?

Back on Lee and Boof, I kinda see both points of view. A seasoned campaigner doesn’t need a FT bowling coach. Part timer is enough , then get someone as and if needed

With 3 formats and lots of newer younger guys coming and going from the side, this day and age a FT bowling coach makes sense. As Bazal mentioned probably more important getting the right person more than anything else

Boof 1
Bollywood Lee 0

I think the other thing that people don't necessarily see is what the bowling coach does outside the nets and physically working with the bowlers on actions and so forth. Your bowling coach is quite often playing a huge part in strategy, watching footage of batsmen and drawing up plans with the group, the head coach and the skipper.

Are we really going to trust JL with that?
 

Twizzle

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Hads is our fielding coach.

I'm not sure why when some one quits they just replace him with another bowling coach, Lillee and Thommo never had a bowling coach and they were one of the best partnerships ever.

Bob Simpson was our best ever coach imo, he never had a bowling coach although DKL used to help him out part time.

Cooley does some pretty good work at the academy but as for needing one full time in our squad, Bing would know
 

Bazal

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Hads is our fielding coach.

I'm not sure why when some one quits they just replace him with another bowling coach, Lillee and Thommo never had a bowling coach and they were one of the best partnerships ever.

Bob Simpson was our best ever coach imo, he never had a bowling coach although DKL used to help him out part time.

Cooley does some pretty good work at the academy but as for needing one full time in our squad, Bing would know

The game has changed massively. What worked for blokes like Lillee in 1973 is completely obsolete.

How many full time professional cricketers did Bob Simpson coach? How many full time pros did his sides play against? He came in just before the big move to full-time professional cricket driven by guys like Taylor, didn't he?
 

AlwaysGreen

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I think the other thing that people don't necessarily see is what the bowling coach does outside the nets and physically working with the bowlers on actions and so forth. Your bowling coach is quite often playing a huge part in strategy, watching footage of batsmen and drawing up plans with the group, the head coach and the skipper.

Are we really going to trust JL with that?
Bowling plans are simple. Don't bowl shit.
 

Twizzle

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The game has changed massively. What worked for blokes like Lillee in 1973 is completely obsolete.

How many full time professional cricketers did Bob Simpson coach? How many full time pros did his sides play against? He came in just before the big move to full-time professional cricket driven by guys like Taylor, didn't he?

yes he did and he was also proof that you dont need a full time team of hangers on like we have now but I can acknowledge that it will never be like that again

Can you believe that Foxsports reported this morning that Hick is being rested as our batting coach for the WC and Punter will take over while Hick prepares himself for the Ashes

ffs, these guys are a bunch of prima donnas
 

TheParraboy

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Curtly-Ambrose-642x428.jpg
 

Timbo

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The game has changed massively since the ‘just run in and bowl fast’ mantra of players in the 70’s and 80’s.

If anyone thinks that Lille and Thomson or Marshall and Holding would be as successful today if they were suddenly in their 20’s and played like they did in the 70’s, you’re wrong. They would be eaten without salt.
 

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