Cronin Jnr to debut

[Fifty Metre Line]

Good to see you`re both very keen footy historians. Or are you both too young to know?

I'm not too young...just too stupid.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Good to see you`re both very keen footy historians. Or are you both too young to know?

Too old to care?

I dunno. My old man's mates with Graeme Langlands and he's the least impressive person I've ever met.

When I see old footage of these guys I'm bemused at the high regard in which they're held - it's easy to look good when you're on a field with that many slow, unfit deadsh*ts.

Blokes used to make rep teams because they could fight for f**ks sake. Anybody with an ounce of ability, and who did a bit of extra training in his own time (ie. not just on Tuesday and Thursday nights with the team) was a contender for world's best player back then.

I agree they were all tougher but the quality of the football was gash compared to what today's athletes put out.

 

[lingard]

Okay, so you`re too young to know.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Come talk to me when Clive Thornett or whatever his f**king name is has as many highlights on YouTube as Jazzy Hayne does.

 

[lingard]

Ignorant prick.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Don't worry mate, one day a bunch of ignorant children will be telling me how sh*t Jarryd Hayne was.

Oh wait, they already are...

 

[lingard]

I doubt that very much. I think Jarryd Hayne is already just about level with Ken Thornett in terms of ability and influence on the team`s fortunes. One more stellar season and he`ll probably be rightfully looked upon as better than Ken Thornett. But then, I`ve had the priveledge of having seen them both play, so I`m a little more qualified to make that judgement than some.

 

[lingard]

Come talk to me when Clive Thornett or whatever his f**king name is has as many highlights on YouTube as Jazzy Hayne does.

There wasn`t as much media footage in those days - otherwise we`d be flooded with clips of Thornett, Johns, Fulton, Gasnier, Irvine, Raper, Langlands, etc, etc, etc. Then you`d understand.

 

[Jake the snake]

Come talk to me when Clive Thornett or whatever his f**king name is has as many highlights on YouTube as Jazzy Hayne does.

Mate, you have a goo argument but that's a stupid comment.

 

[lingard]

Too old to care?

I dunno. My old man's mates with Graeme Langlands and he's the least impressive person I've ever met.

When I see old footage of these guys I'm bemused at the high regard in which they're held - it's easy to look good when you're on a field with that many slow, unfit deadsh*ts.

Blokes used to make rep teams because they could fight for f**ks sake. Anybody with an ounce of ability, and who did a bit of extra training in his own time (ie. not just on Tuesday and Thursday nights with the team) was a contender for world's best player back then.

I agree they were all tougher but the quality of the football was gash compared to what today's athletes put out.[/QUOTE]





As usual, your 'argument' holds little substance. Players like Mike Cleary and Ken Irvine and Reg Gasnier clearly show that there has always been great speed in the game. Players like Fulton and Langlands and Beetson and Tommy Bishop and Ken Thornett and a hundred others clearly show that there has always been great skill in the game. Where is the cut-off point? Do we say that Greg Alexander and Steve Mortimer and Terry Lamb would have been very ordinary today because today`s game is so much 'faster' and the players fitter? Do we say Russel Fairfax or Brett Kenny or Steve Ella would be slow old hacks now? Do we say that Brad Fittler wouldn`t be able to hack it in 2011 because the game keeps getting faster and 'better'?
In any comparison between different eras, it must be assumed that the fitness levels are equal - otherwise we can`t even look at players from a couple of years back.
I think this great game of Rugby League has a deep and rich history that should be cherished, not made fun of. Even if you are joking. But then, that`s pretty childish as well.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

There wasn`t as much media footage in those days - otherwise we`d be flooded with clips of Thornett, Johns, Fulton, Gasnier, Irvine, Raper, Langlands, etc, etc, etc. Then you`d understand.

I know mate. That's why my YouTube comment was so funny.

"Clive Thornett".. I used to sit in the Ken Thornett Stand with my Dad every home game until about 1999. And he used to rave about all these guys too. So I know his name was Ken and he had a brother called Richard, who played second-row.

But I do believe they were playing against much weaker defences. I was born in the mid-70s so I never saw most of those blokes play (or if I did I don't remember) but I have seen footage. Defensive lines were an absolute mess right up until the late 80s.

Hence the 5m rule being opened up to 10m.

 

[spartan2153]

I know mate. That's why my YouTube comment was so funny.

"Clive Thornett".. I used to sit in the Ken Thornett Stand with my Dad every home game until about 1999. And he used to rave about all these guys too. So I know his name was Ken and he had a brother called Richard, who played second-row.

But I do believe they were playing against much weaker defences. I was born in the mid-70s so I never saw most of those blokes play (or if I did I don't remember) but I have seen footage. Defensive lines were an absolute mess right up until the late 80s.

Hence the 5m rule being opened up to 10m.

I think if you trhow those elite guys with todays training & education into fottball they would be untouchable still. Just for the fact that they were pure footballers. Todays game is more about being a good athlete

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think if you trhow those elite guys with todays training & education into fottball they would be untouchable still. Just for the fact that they were pure footballers. Todays game is more about being a good athlete

I agree mate. However I'm talking about the guys the were playing against.

Most of them wouldn't make first grade today because they lacked the athletic ability. They were chosen for toughness and skill - attributes that were very important back then.

But the modern game (particularly defence) is based on speed and strength. Defences are so much better now, it's just harder for stars to have an impact these days than it was for the stars of yesteryear.

People used to tackle around the legs back then! Can you imagine the orgy of offloads our game would be if that were still the case?

I fully believe Thornett, Fulton, etc would play first grade today but I don't think they would dominate like they did 30 years ago.

 

[lingard]

I agree mate. However I'm talking about the guys the were playing against.

Most of them wouldn't make first grade today because they lacked the athletic ability. They were chosen for toughness and skill - attributes that were very important back then.

But the modern game (particularly defence) is based on speed and strength. Defences are so much better now, it's just harder for stars to have an impact these days than it was for the stars of yesteryear.

People used to tackle around the legs back then! Can you imagine the orgy of offloads our game would be if that were still the case?

I fully believe Thornett, Fulton, etc would play first grade today but I don't think they would dominate like they did 30 years ago.

Once again, argument for argument`s sake. That`s all you do. You didn`t see these players play, but can still miraculously decide that defensive lines in those days were not as good as today. And to make the blanket statement that 'they used to tackle around the legs' is just inadequate to the conversation. I don`t recall Norm Provan, Arthur Beetson, John O`Neil, John Sattler, Dick Thornett, Bob O`Reilly, etc, etc, etc, making too many `round the legs tackles. Bob Fulton was a great ball and all tackler. As were many, many others. And what`s all this about the players they were playing against? Do you honestly believe there used to be a handfull of champion players each year, and the rest were sh*t? Does it happen now? No. There`s champion players, and then there`s varying degrees of talent below that level. For every Fulton, Gasnier, Beetson, etc, there were up to half a dozen or so players just below them in their respective positions. Same as today. Same as it`s always been.
You weren`t there. You don`t know. Just say, "I`m sorry, Lingard, I don`t know what I`m talking about". It will set you free.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Mate, I saw the stars of the 80s and I feel the same way about them.

Are you saying the stars of the 60s and 70s were better than the stars of the 80s?

 

[Suitman]

Mate, I saw the stars of the 80s and I feel the same way about them.

Are you saying the stars of the 60s and 70s were better than the stars of the 80s?

No, they were just standouts in their own era.
Just like the stars of the noughties were different to the stars of the 90's and 80's.
Everything is relative mate.

Suity

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No, they were just standouts in their own era.
Just like the stars of the noughties were different to the stars of the 90's and 80's.
Everything is relative mate.

That's just the thing; I don't think it is.

I played park footy and the quality is so poor that it looks like a different game to the NRL. Defence is so bad that it seems every A grade side has at least one player who makes as many linebreaks as Jarryd Hayne. But this is the relative quality of one player compared to the rest; not the relative quality of A Grade compared to the NRL.

Watching old footage of the immortals, even games from the 80s, the gulf in talent between the best players and the worst players was much greater than it is today; at least in terms of strength and speed.

Rugby league from the 80s and earlier looks like today's park footy. This is why people talk about the success of the salary cap.

 

[lingard]

Mate, I saw the stars of the 80s and I feel the same way about them.

Are you saying the stars of the 60s and 70s were better than the stars of the 80s?

1. Well, you`re wrong. Lots of stars from the eighties were as good as lots of stars from the 2000`s.

2. I`ve already stated that Jarryd Hayne may well end up being better than Ken Thornett. So, obviously I`m not making the blanket statement that the stars of the sixties are better than today`s stars. I`m saying some were, some weren`t. As an example, Jarryd Hayne, Billy Slater, Darren Lockyer, Benji Marshall, would all be on a par with Fulton, Cronin, Kenny, Lewis, Price, Raper, Thornett, Gasnier, Johns, Beetson, Churchill,.......you get the picture.
3. Overall, I believe that Bob Fulton was the best player I have ever seen. He would play Origin if he was around today; he would play for Australia; he would win Dally M player of the year, etc. In my opinion.

 

[lingard]

That's just the thing; I don't think it is.

I played park footy and the quality is so poor that it looks like a different game to the NRL. Defence is so bad that it seems every A grade side has at least one player who makes as many linebreaks as Jarryd Hayne. But this is the relative quality of one player compared to the rest; not the relative quality of A Grade compared to the NRL.

Watching old footage of the immortals, even games from the 80s, the gulf in talent between the best players and the worst players was much greater than it is today; at least in terms of strength and speed.

Rugby league from the 80s and earlier looks like today's park footy. This is why people talk about the success of the salary cap.

That`s just nonsense. If that were the case, you`d expect to see much the same Australian team picked every time. But that didn`t happen. For example, at fullback (as I`ve already mentioned) we had Thornett, Les Johns, Keith Barnes, Langlands all pretty much taking it in turns. Just behind them were players like Bob Batty and Don Parrish. On the wings we had Ken Irvine, Mike Cleary, Johnny King, Peter Diamond, Dennis Mowbray.
Five-eight we had Gleeson, Fulton, Pittard. Hookers, we had Fred Jones, Ian Walsh, Elton Rasmussin. These are just the players I can remember. There were many others. You could have selected three Australian teams of pretty much equal ability during the sixties and seventies. There was never a gulf in talent between the stars and the lesser lights.
In fact it was probably more even then, because sides could spend as much as they liked. They didn`t have to fit 17 players into a salary cap, so there was no such thing as having a superstar like Jarryd Hayne on $400,000 and a player like Jeff Robson or Justin Horo on $75,000 in the same side. Take a look at the St George sides of the sixties. Run through them and then show me the gulf in talent. Or South Sydney or Canterbury or Manly or North Sydney. You`re just wrong, mate, that`s all. Handle it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Now you're just comparing the best players with the best players. I'm talking about comparing the best players of the generation with the worst that they played against.

Some guys back then just couldn't compete.

You're elusive lingard, I'll give you that. But I get paid to sniff out bullsh*t and I'll happily do it for free, here, in my spare time.

You can't stop a stepper lingard. And old man bullsh*t is still bullsh*t. Son.