Crowd Watch 2014 part 3

[Diesel]

I have a feeling the only time they will expand is when current NRL franchises start performing a bit better financially.

Which makes me think that if WA is an option relocation is a favoured option, it gets one club out of the saturated Sydney market and into growth area, why else do you think the NRL are propping up clubs by getting a share of ownership

Anyhow, Canberra 8k last night is what I expected, it's a Monday night and the team isn't performing well. How are ticket prices in Canberra, they should offer discounts to Uni students, public servants & armed forces to try and get a solid supporter base

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

I have a feeling the only time they will expand is when current NRL franchises start performing a bit better financially.

nrl clubs had decades to get there house in order and still waiting. why should wa wait for 'heartland' clubs to stabilise they had enough time by now. if anything a heartland club should be better financial it should be the case but it isn't.

 

[dogz08]

Seems weird that one week titans doubles the suns crowd , then a week later it goes the other way

More AFL talk i see..

 

[RWB]

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/Custom/MjMtLS0tLTMyLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t

What's there to suggest that WA is more interested in their Rugby League now than 15-20 years ago?

It's a genuine question. Those numbers tend to suggest exactly what the major concern is amongst fans... that the novelty factor could wear off.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Yet heartland clubs still draw sub 10k crowds, why should expansion clubs be held to a double standard. It seems heartland clubs can get away with poor crowds despite all the history and tradition it just get shrugged off and countless excuses made while with expansion clubs it's gets magnified. In particular, if the club happens to be premiers and are drawing poor crowds still (..Roosters...)

Also RWB fail to mention that WA Reds outdraw the current NRL teams in 96: Bulldogs (95 premiers), Penrith and Souths. 97: Penrith and Souths. These teams happen to remain in the NRL competition while the WA reds didn't despite outdrawing them please explain that RWB.

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1997SL.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1997.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1996.html

Logically, Penrith/Souths would of been kick out of the competition instead of WA Reds base on the numbers hey RWB.

 

[RWB]

Yet heartland clubs still draw sub 10k crowds, why should expansion clubs be held to a double standard. It seems heartland clubs can get away with poor crowds despite all the history and tradition it just get shrugged off and countless excuses made while with expansion clubs it's gets magnified. In particular, if the club happens to be premiers and are drawing poor crowds still (..Roosters...)

Also RWB fail to mention that WA Reds outdraw the current NRL teams in 96: Bulldogs (95 premiers), Penrith and Souths. 97: Penrith and Souths. These teams happen to remain in the NRL competition while the WA reds didn't despite outdrawing them please explain that RWB.

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1997SL.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1997.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/1996.html

Logically, Penrith/Souths would of been kick out of the competition instead of WA Reds base on the numbers hey RWB.

I didn't fail to mention anything, I asked for a response. My intention was never to supply all the information it was to get responses of information.

The difference between Souths & Penrith and a new WA bid is that we know what Souths have done to improve crowds and Penrith's value to the NRL extends far beyond crowds. If WA was in a position to start supplying the quantity and quality of juniors that Penrith do then it would be a no brainer.

So my question is (which you've failed to even remotely answer) how do we know there's more interest in WA now than there was 15-20 years ago? Is there enough data to suggest that a new team in Perth will be more viable than it was 15-20 years ago.

I don't give two shits about your 'heartland' agenda.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

RWB

Heartland agenda is relevant because of the weak attendances and financial situation of the clubs there is an inability to expand after all this time. The current attendances of Manly/Rooster in a non-heartland area you would see people asking for them to be kicked out. Since there in heartland they get a free pass, correct.

 

[Valheru]

RWB

Heartland agenda is relevant because of the weak attendances and financial situation of the clubs there is an inability to expand after all this time. The current attendances of Manly/Rooster in a non-heartland area you would see people asking for them to be kicked out. Since there in heartland they get a free pass, correct.

The roosters averaged 19300 last year, is that poor in your opinion?

 

[RWB]

RWB

Heartland agenda is relevant because of the weak attendances and financial situation of the clubs there is an inability to expand after all this time. The current attendances of Manly/Rooster in a non-heartland area you would see people asking for them to be kicked out. Since there in heartland they get a free pass, correct.

It's not relevant to my question. I can't dumb it down for you any more.

 

[pHyR3]

RWB

Heartland agenda is relevant because of the weak attendances and financial situation of the clubs there is an inability to expand after all this time. The current attendances of Manly/Rooster in a non-heartland area you would see people asking for them to be kicked out. Since there in heartland they get a free pass, correct.

okay, so in these heartland areas that are supposedly struggling here are the LOWEST NRL averages in the last 3 years.

10k for Canberra and Penrith in 2012 and 2013.

11.5k for Wests Tigers in 2013 (finished 2nd last)

9.5k for canberra (many fans pissed off at the management and also ricky stuart) in 2014.

11.5k for manly in 2014 which will probably improve since theyll make the 8.


Perth got 13.5k in 1995 their debut year. this then slumped to 8k in 96, 8.8k in 97.

Why will perth average more than say, 12k (still amongst the bottom teams in the NRL) in 5 years time when the novelty has worn off?

 

[Perth Red]

I think the landscape is very very different in Perth now. Back in '95 the winfield cup had some decent interest but it was general sports fans who went along to see so e games and see what it was about, hence the first big crowds. Here arête differences now and then as I see it from the ground here in Perth:

Stadium: waca v nib
Nib is brilliant for watching RL at, waca was terrible beyond belief

Fanbase: sports fan v RL fan
the fans turning out to NRL games now are RL fans in the main that have moved to Perth from RL heartlands. They are first and foremost RL fans desperate to get behind a club of their own in their new home city.

Players
I have heard some pretty bad stories of about the attitude and behaviour of some of the Reds players back in the 90's. Compare that to how the storm players behave and the great a ambassadors for the game they are in afl territory. Also we are producing NRL players now and nothing Perth loves more than home grown heroes.

SL
You cannot underestimate the massive damage SL did to the game here, it turned the genuine fans away (many grassroots clubs closed up as players and volunteers walked away from the game) and news ltd ousting the warl board and taking over the reds was the start of the coffin lid closing.

So are things different this time? Yep. Will we see crowds drop like last time, no I don't think so.

Not naive, going to take a big effort, a well run club, some on field success, great marketing and some strong investment from NRL but the rewards will be well worth it.

I expect 14k-20k crowds depending on the usual range of factors.

 

[hutch]

Are people seriously debating the merits of having a Perth team in the nrl? They should never have got rid of the reds and since they did, they should have re-admitted a western Australian team already. It's a no brainer.

 

[Bronco Rob]

Because it COSTS a lot of money with no guarantee of any sort of return for a good decade if not longer. Don't you think the NRL would have already done it by now if it made sense financially?

To put things into perspective the Broncos generated 32million in 2012 of which only 2million was net profit and they were considered by far the most successful. Expansion always comes up as a debate in the NRL and every year nothing is done because the costs and risks are too high.

I have a feeling the only time they will expand is when current NRL franchises start performing a bit better financially.

No-one can ever guarantee anything unless you have a crystal ball. Whose to say that Perth couldn't be a raging success. There are a lot of motivated people in WA ready to go if they get the go-ahead but they can remain motivated for only so long.

We keep hearing this novelty factor for Perth, its an overused phrase in realtion to Perth. St Kilda's AFL escapade to Wellington struggled to even muster 13k even with 1k's of free tickets and Aussies flying over after its initial 23k crowd the year before, why because there is no interest in AFL there. Perth has now had multiple games each year and still get great crowds even when its bucketing down so if there was no interest in RL the novelty would have worn off by now as the case with the AFL in NZ.

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/Custom/MjMtLS0tLTMyLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t

What's there to suggest that WA is more interested in their Rugby League now than 15-20 years ago?

It's a genuine question. Those numbers tend to suggest exactly what the major concern is amongst fans... that the novelty factor could wear off.

Like I've mentioned in the post above a lot of the Perth public were browned off with the move to the Super League after the ARL gave them the chance.

Now there is a good foundation in WA to build upon and with Perth having an SG Ball side competing they are building towards the eventual goal of entering a side in the NRL.

There is also the fact that there is a large eastern state population in Perth from the mining boom, the city has quite a different demographic and a larger population from 20 years ago.

 

[Perth Red]

It's a no brainer.

Canberra 8094
Sydney 9235
Sydney 10142
GC 10507
Wollongong 12079

You would think to most it would be a no brainer!

 

[pHyR3]

I think the landscape is very very different in Perth now. Back in '95 the winfield cup had some decent interest but it was general sports fans who went along to see so e games and see what it was about, hence the first big crowds. Here arête differences now and then as I see it from the ground here in Perth:

Stadium: waca v nib
Nib is brilliant for watching RL at, waca was terrible beyond belief

Fanbase: sports fan v RL fan
the fans turning out to NRL games now are RL fans in the main that have moved to Perth from RL heartlands. They are first and foremost RL fans desperate to get behind a club of their own in their new home city.

Players
I have heard some pretty bad stories of about the attitude and behaviour of some of the Reds players back in the 90's. Compare that to how the storm players behave and the great a ambassadors for the game they are in afl territory. Also we are producing NRL players now and nothing Perth loves more than home grown heroes.

SL
You cannot underestimate the massive damage SL did to the game here, it turned the genuine fans away (many grassroots clubs closed up as players and volunteers walked away from the game) and news ltd ousting the warl board and taking over the reds was the start of the coffin lid closing.

So are things different this time? Yep. Will we see crowds drop like last time, no I don't think so.

Not naive, going to take a big effort, a well run club, some on field success, great marketing and some strong investment from NRL but the rewards will be well worth it.

I expect 14k-20k crowds depending on the usual range of factors.

thanks for the post! for the record im all for a new perth team ASAP and always have been.

 

[juro]

Doing my comparison of games again (see http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/sh...postcount=2019), Round 13 was marginally down on the average of the equivalent games from 2009-2013. We got 109k, but the average was 110k. Just like last week, while crowds were down, they were not as bad as the equivalent round in previous years.

The biggest fall came from Manly vs Bulldogs (-5k), thanks to Friday's bad weather. This was the lowest crowd for this fixture since 1992. This was also Manly's 4th consecutive game at Brookvale with a sub-10k crowd.

The Other negatives were:
- Dragons vs Sharks -5k (although higher than last year's effort)
- Raiders vs Broncos -4k (lowest ever crowd between these teams)
- Titans vs Panthers -1k

Positives were:
- Storm vs Roosters +5k (biggest crowd ever for this fixture)
- Souths vs Warrios +5k (biggest ever crowd between these teams)
- Knights vs Tigers +4k (biggest ever crowd between these teams)

Eels vs Cowboys was marginally down.


Next week's par crowd total is 85k, and we should be able to get fairly close to that.

My guesses are:
Souths vs Tigers - 22k
Panthers vs Dragons - 15k
Roosters vs Knights - 13k
Bulldogs vs Eels - 24k
Titans vs Storm - 11k
Total: 85k

I'm thinking there is a fair bit of upside this week, thanks to the 2 games at ANZ, but Origin and the predicted wet weekend may put a dampener on the total...

 

[I Bleed Maroon]

Thoughts? "21K at the Gold Coast SUNS match.. 10K at the GCTitans .. Seems AFL is thriving on the Gold Coast" - A tweet posted by Channel Seven reporter Bianca Stone on the weekend.

That's from Triple M Facebook.

Perhaps this wouldn't be an issue for the Titans if they didn't suck. Their persistence with John Cartright has been an impressive display of patience.

 

[Diesel]

In Brisbane you see many jerseys but very rarely a Titans jersey. Something's very wrong with the GC brand.

Very interesting to read the above post that Friday nights game was the 4th sub 10k crowd for Brookie, I know the weather didn't help but how many more really would've been there, another 3k max?

 

[franklin2323]

Are people seriously debating the merits of having a Perth team in the nrl? They should never have got rid of the reds and since they did, they should have re-admitted a western Australian team already. It's a no brainer.

Look at the games over there. More so the players to have played there plenty of Origin players. What would they draw if they are running 14th playing Canberra or Titans?

Combine that with the travel abd other costs. I can understand why it's been a slow process... That said they need to be part of the next TV deal

 

[ouwet]

In Brisbane you see many jerseys but very rarely a Titans jersey. Something's very wrong with the GC brand.

Very interesting to read the above post that Friday nights game was the 4th sub 10k crowd for Brookie, I know the weather didn't help but how many more really would've been there, another 3k max?

I reckon you would've got another 1-2K Bulldog supporters if the weather was good... Why would we travel (Bankstown To Brookvale isn't close), get stuck in peak hour traffic (No trains near by), struggle to find parking, sit in mud & get abused by redneck Manly supporters? Surburban grounds rock:lol:

You would've got another 5K Manly supporters also... Along with the shocking weather, it was live on 9