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Daily Telegraph Article Today - Gallop For Expansion

Blind Freddy

Juniors
Messages
830
Any potential location that will be self sufficient and will not be reliant on handouts should be added no matter where they are located.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,139
So, PR, we don't expand at all? Perth is expansion, is it not? The key to that is the Bears.

It will be 2020 at the earliest before another bid gets ready to add a team from another area. A lot can happen in that time. Why wait until then?

hence why I said "from a selfish point of view". My hope would have been that at some point in the last 5 years the NRL had identified 4 key new markets and been working int hose areas to have the bids ready for 2013 and 2018 but that would rewquire an NRL with a startegic plan, some hope.

As it stands today it has to be the Bears and Reds as they are the only two bids.

Blind Freddy, it wasn't sarcastic it was an irrelevant quip suggesting people would be happy with a team from anywhere except NSW when that is clearly rubbish. Nobody is suggesting putting a team anywhere, what has been suggested is there are 3 or 4 places that may offer a better long term option for the game than another NSW team.

Hang on how did my thread about Perth end up a Bears discussion, don't we have athread for that?

Back to Perth and our 15's side reached the interstate final for the first time in years last week. We were beaten by Vic (who we beat in the rounds). Good to see our jnr elite academy system making a difference so soon (only been running for a year)
 

Blind Freddy

Juniors
Messages
830
So PNG is a great idea currently???

The government said they will bankroll it....:roll:
I don't think being in debt to a government sounds very self sufficient.

Brutus said:
Bring on Rockhampton then...

If say the CC and Perth are added next TV deal, and the game is ready for expansion again the deal after and Rockhampton or Central QLD is the best bid or have a brilliant bid then by all means why not? More potential options for more TV games the better!!

The only exception is that the game should not try to expand too fast with too many "frontier" or higher risk teams added at once. Energy should be focussed at one "high risk" expansion at a time. That's why CC and Perth is basically the perfect combination, because of these two teams one is a safe bet at succeeding and League heartland (The CC Bears) while the other (Perth) is a frontier team which will be aided and will face a better chance of survival due to the NRL gaining more money from a higher TV deal due to the extra match per round and national exposure.

After the CC and Perth are established though, for the TV deal after I'd work the same formula again of one "safe bet secure a heartland team" and one "high risk" team, therefore i'd go with Brisbane2 and NZ2.
 
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applesauce

Bench
Messages
3,573
The AFL will have 2 teams in QLD next year.
The NRL will have 3 teams in QLD next year....

Doesn't really reflect the dominance RL has in QLD or the respect it deserves as a 2nd heartland of the game.

In 10-15 years the AFL could make QLD work for them... NSW probably not but they have a good shot with QLD.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
I am in favour of Central Coast and Perth for the next expansion, as they are the only bids ready to go now. I would prefer to see expansion in QLD and NZ over CC, but they aren't ready.
They aren't ready? Rubbish. Loustrat is trying to peddle this myth that you require some long running bid pleading for entry to establish a new team. Again rubbish. What you need is a television network to say we'll pay you a lot more for a side in area X, the governing body to say we agree a side in area X is where we want to go strategically, area X to have a reasonable degree of existing support on which to build, and for area X to have the infrastructure or promise of infrastructure to host the team. Having a long standing existing bid in area X is a bonus, not a prerequisite.

Wellington and Christchurch have the infrastructure in bucketloads, have supported the game well (20,000 in C'Church just a fortnight ago) and NZ has a large Rugby League viewing television market. The Queensland government have pledged a new stadium for another team, the state continues to provide phenomenal support for the game at all levels, and it is Rugby League's second biggest market for television. All that is needed is for the NRL to say yes, this is where we want to go and to send in its own operatives who have experience starting and running new teams to kick start the operational build up of the new clubs on the ground. The league should be driving the creation of the bids where it wants the teams, not the other way around.

Expansion needs to be driven centrally for strategic reasons, not because someone cries "me too" very loudly. If you're going to expand the number of teams and thus increase the cost of running the comp, you want to locate the teams where they substantially increase the game's major revenue (ie. television) so as to more than pay for themselves and to improve the position of the entire comp, where they don't undermine the stability and health of existing teams, and where they help achieve the game's strategic growth aims. And they need to meet these considerations not just today or for the next decade but for the next 100 years. If one or more of these factors is coming up short then relocation is a better tool. The league driving where expansion goes instead of waiting for bids from wherever is the same difference between good long term central planning and urban sprawl.

Leigh.
 
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Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Quidgey - what a load of crap. Nowhere have I said you have to have a "long running bid" but you do have to have a bid - and behind it someone to pull it all together -organise tenancy with the grounds, sponsorship, government backing, staff etc etc. That just doesn't happen when some dimwit wakes up one morning and says "How about a side here!" and expects it that afternoon. It's not bloody Ebay.
Bring on Rockhampton then...
Dump 300k populated Cronulla and bring in 60k populated Rocky. What a way to make the game thrive :roll: Your Sydney hatred has put holes in your brain.

The AFL will have 2 teams in QLD next year.
The NRL will have 3 teams in QLD next year....

Doesn't really reflect the dominance RL has in QLD or the respect it deserves as a 2nd heartland of the game.
No, but it does reflect how apallingly bad the QRL, the QLD business community and the QLD public have treqated fledgeling clubs up there. It was blindingly obvious 20 years ago that a second Brisbane side was needed - hence the Crushers. But the Broncos farted in the wrong direction, and the QRL and the public did zip about it. And 3 Gold Coast clubs died before the Titans. The Cowpats, under those cirumstances, have done brilliantly up there, with a good solid fan base behind them. Obviously things are different up in the tropics - and thank God for that.
 
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Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
There should be a checklist for inclusion, or a points system like Super League uses that measures as government support, stadium requirements, catchment population minimums, tv value, distance from another NRL side, et cetera.

For me, I'd love to see a side on the Central Coast, as its a growth area of NSW that probably should already have a side. Should this be at the expense of a potential team on the Sunshine Coast, Perth or Wellington? No; 11 sides in NSW in a national comp and only 3 in QLD is wrong.

Should the CC be at the expense of a Sydney club? Probably. As I said before, the NRL needs a big pool of money that grows year in year out that is a massive carrot to get a Sydney club to relocate to QLD.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,276
Dump 300k populated Cronulla and bring in 60k populated Rocky. What a way to make the game thrive :roll: Your Sydney hatred has put holes in your brain.

Geez Loudy your sarcasm detector needs fixing.

I happen to think a CQ team would be an absolute joke and have maintained this ever since the crazy idea was first mooted.

Clown town guitar man, clown town.
 
Messages
890
By 2015 what NRL would be like??

Would be like this?

St George/Illawarra
Cronulla
Sydney
Souths
Penrith
Parramatta
Manly
Newcastle
Central Coast
Gold Coast
Brisbane
Toowoomba
Sunshine Coast
Central Qld
Cowboys
PNG
Storm
Adeliade
Reds
Auckland
Wellington
West Tigers
Canberra
Bulldogs
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Sorry Brutus - use emoticons for the slow pokes around here next time! Your post was not as absurd as some around here that are fair dinkum.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,276
I'm just not a fan of that sarcasm emotion. It sh*ts me. I like the most of the others though.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
Nowhere have I said you have to have a "long running bid" but you do have to have a bid - and behind it someone to pull it all together -organise tenancy with the grounds, sponsorship, government backing, staff etc etc. That just doesn't happen when some dimwit wakes up one morning and says "How about a side here!" and expects it that afternoon. It's not bloody Ebay.
You've suggested that one reason we should accept the Bears bid is because "there is no other bid on the table". But that's how you end up with urban sprawl - just accept whoever happens to put their hand up when you're ready to expand. The existence of a bid at this point is largely irrelevant as the NRL could decide any time it likes that Wellington is where it wants to go and send in the troops to start pulling "it all together -organise tenancy with the grounds, sponsorship, government backing, staff etc etc." Call that creating its own bid if you like but the point is the bid doesn't need to exist before the decision is made which area will be targeted for expansion. It's a bonus if it does but it isn't a prerequisite. What really counts is how much lead time you give the new team once you say go. In modern times it's been 18 months to 2 years but it has been done in a lot less (eg. Adelaide Crows - bid formed in July 1990, accepted in November 1990, and played first game in early 1991).

Leigh.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
I agree that we will probably see QLD4, CC, Perth and Wellington over the next 15 years in the NRL, and a PNG side in the QLD Cup. My money is on the NRL going one "risky" option in 2013 and another "safe" option to mitigate the risk, then expect a second expansion 2 tv deals later (2024 ish?).

Central Coast and Qld being the two "safe" options, I think CC is more likely in 2013 as it has the stadium, sponsors et cetera ready to go, and the NRL is a bit cash strapped right now and will probably be looking for an easy option. It is also an oportunity to put some of the ghosts of Super League to bed, and it consolidates a huge region with a lot of people and businesses.

Only problem is that it does nothing to help with the over crowded situation in Sydney. I get the feeling the NRL wants the Titans to get a little more settled too before going into QLD again. Also, it gives some regional centers in QLD that are growing very fast a bit more time to increase their population. I have no doubt Sunshine Coast or Logan will have the population in 10 years time, just need a stadium from the state government.

Perth and Wellington being the "risky" options, Perth offers more in terms of advertising and pay TV value within Australia as it is "virgin" land for an NRL side, and has most of the structure already in place, especially with ME Stadium upgrade for the Glory and Force due to be finished by 2013...
 
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