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Defence is the key.

Messages
2,587
There has been a lot of debate and conjecture lately on one of the most important aspects of our great game, defence.
As anyone associated with rugby league will tell you, defence has been the cornerstone of any team which has had dreams of winning the game’s holy grail.
Without a great defence, opposition teams are in a position to exploit even the slightest lapse.
The 9 weeks leading up to and including the grand final in 2002 was some of the most relentless tackling ever seen on a footy field. It wasn’t just the defence however but also the tremendous speed at which the Roosters’ tacklers greeted the opponents advantage line. It seemed that the millisecond a play the ball was effected there was 3 and 4 Roosters there to shut any possible attacking movement down. For teams who played a flat line of attack, such as the Sharks, the tactic proved too much for them to handle.
The team who seemed to be able to cope with it the best was the Broncos who are also renowned for their tackling prowess. The Qualifying final in 2002 between the two clubs was a classic and many felt that it should have been the grand final.
The fact that Easts were able to win the premiership so convincingly in the end is proof that a great defence will win the spoils most of the time. It seems that Ricky Stuart has been given all the credit for introducing this style of defense to the Roosters who in the past have been painted as a soft defensive team. It is true that Stuart transformed the Roosters into a feared unit but it would be unfair and also wrong to ignore the feats of coaches from other clubs and eras.
The great St George team from the 50’s and 60’s were renowned for their tremendous tackling. Provan, Ryan, Clay and Raper are names that spring to mind when discussing great defence. Of course the game was unlimited tackle in those days so to do well a solid defense was a necessity. Saints used to smash opposing teams into submission thus enabling their brilliant backs to finish the job.
The Souths team of the late 60’s and early 70’s were another great defensive team with a pack who certainly took no prisoners. McCarthy, O’Neill, Sait and Coote would often leave an opponent sore and sorry after a bruising piledriver.
Jack Gibson’s brilliant Easts team from the 70’s were superb in every department but it was their defence which made them such a great side. The same can be said of the winning teams from Manly, Parramatta and of course Canterbury.
A look at the statistics of any premiership winning team will reveal one bon fide fact and that is that the winner invariably boasted either the best defensive record or the 2nd best. They say that forwards win matches and anyone will tell you that the most important ingredient of any great pack is it’s ability to do the tough stuff up the middle.
 
Messages
1,005
Rooster Cogburn. said:
There has been a lot of debate and conjecture lately on one of the most important aspects of our great game, defence.
As anyone associated with rugby league will tell you, defence has been the cornerstone of any team which has had dreams of winning the game’s holy grail.
Without a great defence, opposition teams are in a position to exploit even the slightest lapse.
The 9 weeks leading up to and including the grand final in 2002 was some of the most relentless tackling ever seen on a footy field. It wasn’t just the defence however but also the tremendous speed at which the Roosters’ tacklers greeted the opponents advantage line. It seemed that the millisecond a play the ball was effected there was 3 and 4 Roosters there to shut any possible attacking movement down. For teams who played a flat line of attack, such as the Sharks, the tactic proved too much for them to handle.
The team who seemed to be able to cope with it the best was the Broncos who are also renowned for their tackling prowess. The Qualifying final in 2002 between the two clubs was a classic and many felt that it should have been the grand final.
The fact that Easts were able to win the premiership so convincingly in the end is proof that a great defence will win the spoils most of the time. It seems that Ricky Stuart has been given all the credit for introducing this style of defense to the Roosters who in the past have been painted as a soft defensive team. It is true that Stuart transformed the Roosters into a feared unit but it would be unfair and also wrong to ignore the feats of coaches from other clubs and eras.

..............and the Penrith Panthers certainly showed how great their defence was in the Grand Final of 2003!! Just ask Todd Byrne!! :D :D :D
 

Bring it home Knights

First Grade
Messages
7,575
This is just my opinion. You're entitled to disagree with what I'm about to say.

The season of 2001 and most of 2002 was mostly about attack. The defence didn't come up as quick as they do these days, so the teams would get more of a role on and the teams played off the halfback and hooker. The 5/8 didn't really have a job, unless it was as a 2nd rower or decoy. Some teams were abit different. Like the roosters and dragons, there 5/8's did more of the halfbacks job and the halves took a more back seat, unless it was to do the odd kick.

I'm starting to get the feeling that the 5/8 will start to play a bigger role next year. Not so much as a 2nd receiver, but more as a go to man one pass off the ruck.

I mean look at the knights this year. We had a hack of a 5/8 called sean rudder. He had very limited skills and let the team down more then he benefited the team. So all the work was put down to johns and with the defence coming up so quickly and knowing that the ball was always going to go to johns in an attacking play, he had no time with the ball and he found it very hard to dominate the teams like he once did.

Jones for the warriors seemed to have the same problem. He was always under pressure.

Then look at the teams that have a 5/8 and halfback that both go 1st receiver throughout the games. Both teams made the grand final.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,626
Such a good post ... and look at the replies :(

Dont bother posting something of quality like that RC on this website ... it does you no good.

the worl tards who converged on this website and now basically own it, wouldnt know shit from clay.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,269
Wow - we're agreeing with Rooster...

Good post! Both attacking and defensive (up and in, sliding etc) styles change regularly. But, off the top of my head I cannot recall a great attacking side with an average to poor defence winning the premiership, but there are many examples of a great defensive side with average attacks winning premierships.

Penrith didin't have a great defense by and large this year, but really lifted for the playoffs. Which is always possible if you have class players (which they do).

I guess the truly great sides are those that combine both aspects best - in recent times that has been done over extended periods by Parramatta (ok, maybe not so recent), Canberra (largely in finals though, as opposed to the whole season) and Brisbane. Others (e.g., Penrith 91) managed it for a whole season, and others Roosters 02 Penrith 03 - did it at the right end of the season
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
knights 2001, were never the greatest defnding team, and the reason they won was their brilliant attack in the first half, i think that season they conceded on average somewhere between 21-24 poibnts a game ( cant remmebr the exact figure) similarly panthers this year werent a greta defending side, they just defended well in the gf
 
Messages
2,729
Bring it home Knights said:
This is just my opinion. You're entitled to disagree with what I'm about to say.

The season of 2001 and most of 2002 was mostly about attack. The defence didn't come up as quick as they do these days, so the teams would get more of a role on and the teams played off the halfback and hooker. The 5/8 didn't really have a job, unless it was as a 2nd rower or decoy. Some teams were abit different. Like the roosters and dragons, there 5/8's did more of the halfbacks job and the halves took a more back seat, unless it was to do the odd kick.

So anything could happen?

I'm starting to get the feeling that the 5/8 will start to play a bigger role next year. Not so much as a 2nd receiver, but more as a go to man one pass off the ruck.

Woh! Huge prediction, Bring It. No really.

I mean look at the knights this year. We had a hack of a 5/8 called sean rudder. He had very limited skills and let the team down more then he benefited the team. So all the work was put down to johns and with the defence coming up so quickly and knowing that the ball was always going to go to johns in an attacking play, he had no time with the ball and he found it very hard to dominate the teams like he once did.

Argh. Another chance to bash Rudder. What was his record at 5/8 this year? What was his "replacement's" record? :lol:

Then look at the teams that have a 5/8 and halfback that both go 1st receiver throughout the games. Both teams made the grand final.

Every team has a 5/8 that can go to first receiver. Its just an option that every single rugby league team has thought of for over 100 years now.


It all comes down to defending when it most counts. The Knights of 2001 may not have gone well through the year, but the first 200 minutes of the finals series was perfect. The same could also be said of the last 3 or 4 weeks of the regular season as well. No-one gave a shit that they were the worst defending team of the top 8 after they led 24-blot in the grand final.
 

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
I think that the 2002 roosters also excelled through attack

The defence factor was purely the influence of Morley. If you took him out, the roosters pack would still be somewhat soft in my opinion. Ill pay Fitzgibbon,

but Ricketson, Cayless, Catic and Cusack? Not bad players, but hardly intimidators. Ricketson can tackle himself to a standstill, but so can many other NRL players

Cheers,
Moffo
 

Bring it home Knights

First Grade
Messages
7,575
Danish Moo Cow said:
Nah, you wanted to "bring it" up again. Go right ahead. Answer the question.

That # record actually carried weight for the 1st half of the year. Then we last alot of our star players through injuries. Kennedy, Parsons, Simpson, Woolnough. Throw in SOO and the team was always going to struggle. I can't see Rudder being at 5/8 carrying the team during this time. Can you?

You have to look at other factors. You can't just look at it in black and white.

If you want more evidence that people think Kidleys a better player then rudder. Look at the canberra forum. It was around 90% Gidley, 10% for rudder. I guess I'm not the only one who thinks Rudder was a sh!t player.
 
Messages
2,587
Moffo said:
I think that the 2002 roosters also excelled through attack

The defence factor was purely the influence of Morley. If you took him out, the roosters pack would still be somewhat soft in my opinion. Ill pay Fitzgibbon,

but Ricketson, Cayless, Catic and Cusack? Not bad players, but hardly intimidators. Ricketson can tackle himself to a standstill, but so can many other NRL players

Cheers,
Moffo

Pretty simplistic and predictable view Moffo. Nearly every club has an enforcer but how many clubs have more than one? You tell me. Morley missed 3 games in a row this season yet Easts won all 3 games comfortably. If you think Cayless, Ricko, Cusack and co are soft then you are very clueless! Ask any forward in the game what they think, I know what they'd say.
 
Messages
1,005
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Pretty simplistic and predictable view Moffo. Nearly every club has an enforcer but how many clubs have more than one? You tell me. Morley missed 3 games in a row this season yet Easts won all 3 games comfortably. If you think Cayless, Ricko, Cusack and co are soft then you are very clueless! Ask any forward in the game what they think, I know what they'd say.

Martin Lang, Ben Ross and JOEL CLINTON (Your pet favourite Cogburn :lol: :lol: ) certainly know how to handle your forwards - oh you said forwards!! Well let's throw Tony Puletua, Joe Galuvao, Trent Waterhouse, Luke Priddis, Scott Sattler, Shane Rodney & Luke Swain in there as well. Now THAT'S INTIMIDATION :!: :!:

Lang and Ross were injured at various times of the year, yet we won EIGHT IN A ROW!!

Yes you do have good set of forwards and yes people are crazy to say they they're soft, but in the end they were manhandled by a better pack of forwards on GF night!! :D
 
Messages
2,587
Big Panther Cool said:
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Pretty simplistic and predictable view Moffo. Nearly every club has an enforcer but how many clubs have more than one? You tell me. Morley missed 3 games in a row this season yet Easts won all 3 games comfortably. If you think Cayless, Ricko, Cusack and co are soft then you are very clueless! Ask any forward in the game what they think, I know what they'd say.

Martin Lang, Ben Ross and JOEL CLINTON (Your pet favourite Cogburn :lol: :lol: ) certainly know how to handle your forwards - oh you said forwards!! Well let's throw Tony Puletua, Joe Galuvao, Trent Waterhouse, Luke Priddis, Scott Sattler, Shane Rodney & Luke Swain in there as well. Now THAT'S INTIMIDATION :!: :!:

Lang and Ross were injured at various times of the year, yet we won EIGHT IN A ROW!!

Yes you do have good set of forwards and yes people are crazy to say they they're soft, but in the end they were manhandled by a better pack of forwards on GF night!! :D

Martin Lang :lol: Ben Ross :lol: Clinton :lol: Get your hand off it. Ross was a terrifying sight when he was smashing Tallis's fist with his head! :lol: and Lang, the human pinball :lol: and Joel "I don't like cheergirls saying bad things about me" Clinton! :lol: Please, do me a favour and do something better with your time. Why don't you head down to panthers and put your dole money through the pokies, either that or back Penrith next year....The end result will be the same! :lol:
 
Messages
1,005
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Martin Lang :lol: Ben Ross :lol: Clinton :lol: Get your hand off it. Ross was a terrifying sight when he was smashing Tallis's fist with his head! :lol: and Lang, the human pinball :lol: and Joel "I don't like cheergirls saying bad things about me" Clinton! :lol: Please, do me a favour and do something better with your time. Why don't you head down to panthers and put your dole money through the pokies, either that or back Penrith next year....The end result will be the same! :lol:

Thanks for the advice Cogburn, but I don't intend on spending time with you in dole queues and playing poker machines. I'm quite content with my life and career where I earn enough to live a great lifestyle.

Backing Penrith?? Well I did that this year and made a lot of money!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can't hack it that our forwards - no matter what you say about them - played over the top of yours all season?? :lol:

The results speak for themselves BABY!!

PENRITH PANTHERS - 2003 MINOR PREMIERS
PENRITH PANTHERS - 2003 PREMIERS
(roosters - empty trophy cabinet)

Doesn't get any better than that (well, winning $500 for picking the Panthers to win the Grand Final certainly comes close)!! :lol:

JARRED ONCE AGAIN COGBURN!! :lol: :lol:
 
Messages
2,587
Big Panther Cool said:
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Martin Lang :lol: Ben Ross :lol: Clinton :lol: Get your hand off it. Ross was a terrifying sight when he was smashing Tallis's fist with his head! :lol: and Lang, the human pinball :lol: and Joel "I don't like cheergirls saying bad things about me" Clinton! :lol: Please, do me a favour and do something better with your time. Why don't you head down to panthers and put your dole money through the pokies, either that or back Penrith next year....The end result will be the same! :lol:

Thanks for the advice Cogburn, but I don't intend on spending time with you in dole queues and playing poker machines. I'm quite content with my life and career where I earn enough to live a great lifestyle.

Backing Penrith?? Well I did that this year and made a lot of money!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can't hack it that our forwards - no matter what you say about them - played over the top of yours all season?? :lol:

The results speak for themselves BABY!!

PENRITH PANTHERS - 2003 MINOR PREMIERS
PENRITH PANTHERS - 2003 PREMIERS
(roosters - empty trophy cabinet)

Doesn't get any better than that (well, winning $500 for picking the Panthers to win the Grand Final certainly comes close)!! :lol:

JARRED ONCE AGAIN COGBURN!! :lol: :lol:

Our forwards made mincemeat of your pack at Penrith. As far as the rest of the year went Easts were far and away the best team, Penrith fluked a win and good luck to them but as I said, enjoy your time in the sun because 2004 is not far away and mediocrity is Penrith's middle name. BTW you sound too dumb to be employed, what do you do? work in a sheltered workshop? :lol:
 
Messages
1,005
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Our forwards made mincemeat of your pack at Penrith. As far as the rest of the year went Easts were far and away the best team, Penrith fluked a win and good luck to them but as I said, enjoy your time in the sun because 2004 is not far away and mediocrity is Penrith's middle name. BTW you sound too dumb to be employed, what do you do? work in a sheltered workshop? :lol:

You sure a lonely voice when it comes to your claims that the roosters were the best side all year. That is totally your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I'm afraid you don't have too much support with that claim. Look at your own Wall Website - even the majority of your fellow, more decent supporters (with the exception of a very few) have learnt to accept it. Why can't you??

You played a good game at Penrith. But the better team came out on top at the end, and in the games where it matters most. Penrith won 2 out of 3 against you guys. That record speaks for itself

Dumb?? An example of Dumb is when someone can't think of anything intelligent to say and would therefore have to resort to using racist comments to attract the ire of the opposing team's fans. Hmm, I wonder who I'm referring to???? :evil:

Sheltered Workshop? Office with a harbour view? Truck driving interstate? Does it matter? It's called employment. Something you'll need to consider one day Cogburn. BTW, do you need a loan? I'll gladly lend you some cash and just make sure you pay me when your next dole cheque comes in. :lol: :lol:

MR COGBURN - ONCE AGAIN, YOU ARE JARRED :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Messages
2,587
Big Panther Cool said:
Rooster Cogburn. said:
Our forwards made mincemeat of your pack at Penrith. As far as the rest of the year went Easts were far and away the best team, Penrith fluked a win and good luck to them but as I said, enjoy your time in the sun because 2004 is not far away and mediocrity is Penrith's middle name. BTW you sound too dumb to be employed, what do you do? work in a sheltered workshop? :lol:

You sure a lonely voice when it comes to your claims that the roosters were the best side all year. That is totally your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I'm afraid you don't have too much support with that claim. Look at your own Wall Website - even the majority of your fellow, more decent supporters (with the exception of a very few) have learnt to accept it. Why can't you??

You played a good game at Penrith. But the better team came out on top at the end, and in the games where it matters most. Penrith won 2 out of 3 against you guys. That record speaks for itself

Dumb?? An example of Dumb is when someone can't think of anything intelligent to say and would therefore have to resort to using racist comments to attract the ire of the opposing team's fans. Hmm, I wonder who I'm referring to???? :evil:

Sheltered Workshop? Office with a harbour view? Truck driving interstate? Does it matter? It's called employment. Something you'll need to consider one day Cogburn. BTW, do you need a loan? I'll gladly lend you some cash and just make sure you pay me when your next dole cheque comes in. :lol: :lol:

MR COGBURN - ONCE AGAIN, YOU ARE JARRED :lol: :lol: :lol:

You keep pushing the ridiculous racist line. I called Rhys a gollywog! He reminds me of a gollywog :lol: Hardly Klu klux clan material. I also wrote an apology and gave Rhys a huge compliment saying what a credit he was to his club. The trouble with you is that you don't have a sense of humour, you take everything so literally. My advice to you is lighten up and as I said enjoy your flukey win, and yes I know that you don't work in a sheltered workshop. You are of course employed as a crash test dummy! :lol:
 
Messages
1,005
Rooster Cogburn. said:
You keep pushing the ridiculous racist line. I called Rhys a gollywog! He reminds me of a gollywog :lol: Hardly Klu klux clan material. I also wrote an apology and gave Rhys a huge compliment saying what a credit he was to his club. The trouble with you is that you don't have a sense of humour, you take everything so literally. My advice to you is lighten up and as I said enjoy your flukey win, and yes I know that you don't work in a sheltered workshop. You are of course employed as a crash test dummy! :lol:

So why call him a gollywog?? He's never had an afro you xenophobic moron!! Yeah you wrote an apology and gave him credit where credit is due, but then you go back into the wall website and call the penrith fans dumb, when you made, what I think, was the dumbest comment of all time!! If you thought your comment was so innocent, then why apologise?

Go and find a job and stop acting so stupid. You're an embarrassment!
 

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