Defense issue for Millers( & others)

[blacktip-reefy]

AT looking at some of your comments, your criticisms & your name, it becomes all too clear that with you, defense is number 1 priority.
Playing the full game is also important for you, in particular, Sullys case.
I have since modified my opinion of impact players & their roles in the team.
However, I think some of your criticisms are unjustified. Greatly.

Comparison used for debating points only.

Games played
Kimmorley 13
Sullivan 15 divided by 2/3's = 10

Season tackles
Kimmorley 211 16.2
Sullivan 258 17.2

Line breaks
Kimmorley 4
Sullivan 8

Offloads
Kimmorley 10
Sullivan 23

Errors
Kimmorley 17
Sullivan 18

Missed tackles
Kimmorley 46
Sullivan 37

Try assists
Kimmorley 18
Sullivan 8

Trys
Kimmorley 2
Sullivan 5


Averaged missed tackles per game
Kimmorley 3.5
Sullivan 2.5



I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

[PHaTMaN]

Very interesting stats reefy. I think some people have been a little overcritical of Sullivans defense and those stats appear to support the argument that Sully is not in fact a bad defender. I still think his defense is not quite up to the standard that a hookers should be but it is not as bad as some people would have you believe. His try assists, line breaks and trys all indicate his value as an attacker and only missing 2.5 tackles a game suggests that his attacking value far outweighs any criticism of his defense. Would be interesting to see how he would go starting at hooker with the heavy defence up in the middle.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

I will also throw in peachies Stats now for an even more interesting view on things

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Games played
Kimmorley 13
Sullivan 15 divided by 2/3's = 10
Peachey 13

Season tackles
Kimmorley 211 16.2
Sullivan 258 17.2
Peachey 99 7.6


Line breaks
Kimmorley 4
Sullivan 8
Peachey 5


Offloads
Kimmorley 10
Sullivan 23
Peachey 20


Errors
Kimmorley 17
Sullivan 18
Peachey 21


Missed tackles
Kimmorley 46
Sullivan 37
Peachey 44


Try assists
Kimmorley 18
Sullivan 8
Peachey 11


Trys
Kimmorley 2
Sullivan 5
Peachey 7



Averaged missed tackles per game
Kimmorley 3.5
Sullivan 2.5
Peachey 3.4



Peacheys averaged missed tackles have decreased from 3.4 to 0.8 overthe last 5 matches

 

[Mr Angry]

Kimmorley is a liability in defence, no arguement here.
However BK is our general and I do not think your suggesting he should not be in first grade.
Also reefy, I can handle either half not being the best defender, but have trouble with a hooker being a defensive liability, as I am expecting 40 odd tackles from him, the halves should in theory tackle half as much.
And damn straight defence is my number 1 priority. Should be the teams also. We conceed over 26 points per match - that simply cannot continue if we want to beat the better teams.
Sullivan defends well enough to be a half, not a hooker.

This is a bit harsh but take last weekend. The score was 6-6 when Sullivan came on in the 28th min ended up 32 -12. And who was Penriths best player - a real hooker named Priddis.
Maybe we should put Sully on for Merritt, DH in attack and wing in defence [/not serious]

 

[PHaTMaN]

I dont think Peachey's missed tackles can be directly compared to Noddy and Sully's. He makes his tackles in a completely different situation, he is not defending in a line generally and as a result it is easier to miss tackles.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

No doubt Priddis is good.
In my book he' better than Buderus.
Intresting Priddis stats for you Angry
Priddis
448 tackles!!!
29 misses
2.1 per game

 

[Jimbo]

And it doesn't say much about the rest of the team that Peachey even has an opportunity to miss that many tackles, since he's the last line of defence.

Blaming Peachey for our poor defensive record is like blaming the keeper of a soccer team for letting in 8 goals per game

 

[millersnose]

stats dont tell the whole story do they reefy

i would expect a player who comes on fresh after 20 minutes and plays a reduced time at hooker to do better than an 80 minute halfback whose energies are expended in attack

it is also technique

sullivan as a forward frequently looks on the verge of loosing his man therefor sucking other defenders in

there is no stat to prove this but watch when players target sullivan in defence they do so as off loading is easy against him

 

[blacktip-reefy]

stats dont tell the whole story do they reefy

no, but go close.

i would expect a player who comes on fresh after 20 minutes and plays a reduced time at hooker to do better than an 80 minute halfback whose energies are expended in attack

If passing a ball is too much for Noddy,then he really needs to do some more time on the track. I would imagine that 1 DHR would use more energy than 3 sets of Noddys plays.
Stand & pass, kick, not get tackled.
maybe he is mentally tired?
& I would expect a plyer in the middle having played 4 matches more would have completed more tackles.
As is the case with all other clubs.
And in terms of Energy expenditure in attack, how is it that Sully has taken it to the line 155 times compared to Noddys 70.

it is also technique

sullivan as a forward frequently looks on the verge of loosing his man therefor sucking other defenders in

That is a weight/size issue. I have no problem with it. & Kimmorley suffers from this problem even more, which is why he probably just stays away from defense.

there is no stat to prove this but watch when players target sullivan in defence they do so as off loading is easy against him

You don't need a stat. It is an obvious fact of rugby league.
Sully & Noddy will always suffer from this because of size.
It's just that statiscally, Sully is handling it better than Noddy.

 

[Surely]

How is that he takes the ball to the line more .... he's a hog thats how it is.
If he was that good he would have steered our side around the park on sunday, he didn't, he is one of those give me the ball i'm a star and i'm going to score myself types.

I say offload him and use the money for someone better.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Surely you cant be serious!
You will have to do a bit better than that Surely.
i would suggest you have a closer look at the numbers before you go selling our players.
Personality opinions are quite easily ignored.
I'll make it easy for you
Offloads
Sully 23
Kimmorley 10

You say hog. Stats say ..you silly.

 

[JemimaPuddleduck]

duckanal ysis

It seems Mr Sullivan provides more penetration than Mr Kimmorley in a lot of areas of attack.

hmmmm

best not let Mr sullyfan in on this thread. there could be carnage!

 

[Foz]

Is there a wrong option stat and kicking stat?

 

[Surely]

And what do we classify as an offload these days, a pass when being tackled.

Do you have any states on how many passes Kimmorely throws when not being tackled !

 

[Surely]

Actually I think the try assists stat answered that question

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Yes BK has kicked 180 times this year.
40 times more than anybody else.
Looking for somebody who has some complete stats on kick results.
i.e. out on the full repeat set 40/20 etc.

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Relying on stats doesnt tell a full story, they can be manipulated to look good or bad regarding the situation. SOme players paly more, some less, some make more tackles (meaning they have more chance to miss more as well) and some make s**t all.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

And what do we classify as an offload these days, a pass when being tackled.

Do you have any states on how many passes Kimmorely throws when not being tackled !

You very silly Surely!
How does BK get the ball?
It gets passed to him!
By who?

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Relying on stats doesnt tell a full story, they can be manipulated to look good or bad regarding the situation. SOme players paly more, some less, some make more tackles (meaning they have more chance to miss more as well) and some make s**t all.

Stats can be manipulated yes.
Usually by people who dont understand stats & only use portions of them to argue their point.
At this point, I am facing 2 debates(but I know it'searly days)
Sully has poor defense.
Well stats back that up, especially with 5 misses on the weekend.
But he is better than BK & stats back that up

Now, Surely has said Sully is a hog.
besides being obviously silly, stats prove that statement is clearly wrong.