Did anyone see it?

[lingard]

People just lose their f**king minds on this forum when we play shit.

Nah; people just react badly when we`ve only won 7 games out of 32.
Funny, that.

 

[Bigfella]

The answer still seems to be that nobody saw it.

 

[forward pass]

I'm glad you asked. Seriously glad, because you are actually addressing some factual scenarios, while most of the posts are making all sorts of unprovable, meaningless statements like "lost the support of the dressing room" "going backwards" and worse.

Like everyone else, I want to win every game and get f**king crankier than most when we lose.

But I genuinely believe we have been a very soft outfit for more like ten years.

I think that what Kearney and his crew are trying to do genuinely addresses the core problems we have had. In doing so they are confronting some problems that will lead to short term pain.

We have lacked a halfback for twenty years. That has potentially been addressed but there are big issues around him. Strong steps have been taken which I think are far more important than a few wins or losses this season.

If signs of that are still there at seasons end I won't want him sacked either.

I have seen significant improvement in selecting young players and havin them perform: Loko, sio, allgood, Blair, Ryan and even Morgan. Ohanlon not so much but it's a good strike rate overall

We have identified a weakness in the outside backs and brought some promising youngsters in. We have bought tonga and hoppa and it's hard to see we could have bought better in the circumstances.

We clearly acknowledge a deficiency in the backrow and are targeting it with recruitment.
Our highest paid forward is our captain and also our least effective player in the pack. This is an extension o what occurred under cayless. It is a disaster for salary cap balance, and leadership issues. This has the secondary problem of stifling the next level of player, the creative players in the side, and the next generation of leaders. It also undermines confidence which is our biggest problem.

Also the head coach seems to have the balls to stick to his guns. He has correctly identified some of our key problem areas. They have been hardcore problems for some time and aren't capable of a quick fix.

Only if he gives up in his plans or loses the courage of his convictions will I call for his sacking because some of these things have been problems for a long time.

All of them lead to up our biggest problem which is mental weakness. I support the long term plan to address that and think Kearney's vision addresses that deficiency.

I don't believe a new coach will help that. It will be a victory for the protection of player reputation and long term mediocrity.

I'm prepared to wear some short term pain for long term gain and think this is the best way forward.

People think we have been soft of had a soft underbelly for 10 years because we didn't jag the two chances we had at a premiership in those ten years once of which we were cheated out of.

Personally I think the leaders in this team are mentally shot and have been saying so since last year. You add the events of this pre season to that and you get a recipe for failure.

Now according to what you have said here, and the tales I have been hearing around the club, most are confident the "soft underbelly" of the side will be removed once the last remnants of the old guard are removed and only Hayne, Mannah and Matt Keating remain with a young core of promising players.

This may well be the case. But still it reflects poorly on our club and the coach.

Why? because the coach or indeed the coaching staff should be able to yoke the support and manage the mentality of their entire list. Addressing the "soft underbelly" shouldn't be down to moving on old players it should be a case of every player development being looked at and addressed by the coaching staff instead of thrown in the "too hard" basket.

Kearney may well do well in the next year, he may not. But regardless, if those on the inside are correct and this is the way the club has selected to move forward, then we have sacrificed two years of mediocrity for the possibility of stability.

But that also raises one other question. What happens to a Kearney coached side that does suffer a setback. What will he do then? where will the experience come from to help get a player of group of players out of a rut ? ? ?

I am firmly of this belief also but I believe he is struggling big time with the off field implementation and this is where the CEO should be providing guidance and assistance where necessary. The players should also be able to go to the CEO to air grievances but receive balanced advice. Sometimes when you are trying to implement structural change you can be so focused on it you forget about the human element.

Personally if it was me I would be doing my utmost to ensure a player of Haynes calibre was singing from the same hymn sheet and thus helping to lead the change rather than obstruct it.

Finally I also believe that it is dangerous to think you have all the answers when implementing change you need to exercise a degree of flexibility. You can end up in the same spot but take some slightly different paths to get there this can often lead to some unexpected positive outcomes too. This is where I believe the guidance and assistance of the CEO needs to come into play.

Bigfella, Firstly we must disagree, retaining the players we want from our junior ranks has been an issue, but generating players that go on the play first grade is not the problem. An Academy, or a Jets or a High Performance Unit, will all have the same problem at this club. An over abundance of players and a lack of spots and cash. We are lucky at this time we have so many players leaving.
Having said that, who have we signed or retained for next year?

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.

What would it have taken? A week away from the hustle and bustle, playing golf, training and sit down team meetings where everyone got to work out their issues and help them become a team? That might have at least gotten everyone on side to perform on the footy field. But from the first trial you could tell they were not there.

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not. Yet for 15 minutes last week we showed that the mentality is not that far away. However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that. Yet we have seen our club play well for a grand total of 35 minutes this season. Firstly against manly when they became a shot duck and then against the tigers when they slacked off their performance and we found them out repeatedly on the edge.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now.

Firstly we must disagree, retaining the players we want from our junior ranks has been an issue, but generating players that go on the play first grade is not the problem

Paul Gallen, James Maloney, David Williams, Tony Williams, Nathan Gardener, are just a hamdful of examples of blokes from our junior system who played bugger all first grade with us but have done very well at other clubs and who would walk in to our side at the moment.

I agree when people say that you can't keep them all - but to have these blokes in your system and not give them a crack and find out if they are good enough is a tragedy, especially when they kick on elsewhere. Even more if you end up having to bid overs to get them back.

Having said that, who have we signed or retained for next year?

We have identified / signed or retained the following young players who are showing every sign of making a success of the top grade:

Mannah, Allgood, Blair, Loko, Sio, Ryan, Morgan. We have also given a chance to Lassalo and O'Hanlon. In a season and a bit that's good work IMO and must surely compare more than favourably with any coach in the post Smith era?

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.

These are not really reasoned arguments - just meaningless assertions - but:

Hagan Anderson and even Smith all failed to address this aspect of the club culture. IMO none of them even acknowledged it. They all had much longer to achieve the task and failed.

We will never be able to prove it, but I believe that any resistance being encountered by Kearney from the playing group is precisely because he is doing something about it.

I don't believe two or even three years is unreasonable to undo a culture that has been ingrained for more than ten years. Especially when a senior playing core is still present, albeit diminished in size.

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not.

I agree the mentality is not. I don't think it has been for a long time.

I seriously question aspects of the talent of the playing group though. I have said for three years we have profoundly neglected the role that big fast strong outside backs play in the modern game.

The only reason we are now close to acceptable in this area is the emergence of two absolute rookies and the purcahse of one injured rep player. It has still left us massively short on class in these aspects, which takes a huge toll in defence and attack.

I also think we have neglected the hooking role, although I believe Matt K has lifted this year which is encouraging. He is still in a position of having zero competetion though.

And our halves while talented are new to each other and mercurial at best.

Our backrow is a fair way off the pace IMO.

However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Don't know which ones you are referring to but stories in the paper don't concern me too much.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that.

I agree. But we have a number of personnel changes and a particular loss of experience. At times we have had five or six new players in our backline where a lot of the defensive problems have been.

Plus Hayne's unavailability and subsequent lack of full fitness have not helped at all.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now

Anderson had the setback of losing the GF and couldn't get them to lift in 2010. I would have kept him too but they didn't and completely agree about spilt milk.

Likewise Hagan had the qualifying final loss to Melbourne followed by a very ordinary year. Same applies.

Glad to hear you are hoping for improvement. I get the feeling a lot of people just want some blood, will not acknowledge any of the systemic failings in the club or any of the modest improvements being implemented.

So did anyone see it or what ???

 

[DeanPay98]

I don't think it happened. Even if it did, there might be a better explanation. For all we know Hayne could have been discussing an attacking play and told the trainer not to interrupt him. He might have been gesturing to the scoreboard rather than the coach's box.

Unless Hayne, Kearney or the trainer confirm it - its all just bs.

 

[Captain BF]

I don't think it happened. Even if it did, there might be a better explanation. For all we know Hayne could have been discussing an attacking play and told the trainer not to interrupt him. He might have been gesturing to the scoreboard rather than the coach's box.

Unless Hayne, Kearney or the trainer confirm it - its all just bs.

I jumped onto NRL.com to have a look at the replay of the second half. After the Tigers last try, you can see the Parra trainer with the team as he would normally be. So i reckon it is all bullcrap as well.