Did anyone see it?

[Bigfella]

I tend to agree with Cloudsurfer's point above MITS but thank you for your considered response - It's a lot more sensible than people whining about past coaches being dismissed or sneering at concepts like the academy when in fact development and retention have been a massive problem for the club and an area where we have already demonstrably improved. This is why I suspect very strongly that most of the people expressing the anti Kearney sentiment are actually more pissed off with past decisions than supporting those now charged with improving what is clearly a mess. That to me reeks of one of the core reasons our club has had little success and has been mentally and culturally weak - too many factions and pockets of self interest.

And also as to your last point - I agree that is a valid question - but doesn't it appl equally to any coach we may replace him with? And I also believe that the past few coaches have failed that particular test in any case.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

and for the record...imo hayne needs to grow T F U

 

[oldmancraigy]

and for the record...imo hayne needs to grow T F U

Why?

Did he cry about the fact he was fined?

Did he skip the recovery session after he was late?

Or did he do the crime, then do the time (ie do the session by himself after he got the time wrong, and cop the fine).

Don't worry about the made up story at the beginning of this thread - it didn't happen. When it comes to the stuff that actually DID happen, well, he stuffed up, he copped it.

 

[parra-matters]

and for the record...imo hayne needs to grow T F U

THIS!
For too long people have been patting him on the back telling him how good he is.
He needs to go spend some time with the Fijian national team, his attitude was best just after he played the for them in the world cup in late 2008.

 

[Snoochies]

THIS!
For too long people have been patting him on the back telling him how good he is.
He needs to go spend some time with the Fijian national team, his attitude was best just after he played the for them in the world cup in late 2008.

And why do you think that is?

 

[parra-matters]

And why do you think that is?

He was brought back down to earth with the Fijian team and also found religion. He seemed pretty humble after that til last season.

 

[ParraManiac]

I'm glad you asked. Seriously glad, because you are actually addressing some factual scenarios, while most of the posts are making all sorts of unprovable, meaningless statements like "lost the support of the dressing room" "going backwards" and worse.

Like everyone else, I want to win every game and get f**king crankier than most when we lose.

But I genuinely believe we have been a very soft outfit for more like ten years.

I think that what Kearney and his crew are trying to do genuinely addresses the core problems we have had. In doing so they are confronting some problems that will lead to short term pain.

We have lacked a halfback for twenty years. That has potentially been addressed but there are big issues around him. Strong steps have been taken which I think are far more important than a few wins or losses this season.

If signs of that are still there at seasons end I won't want him sacked either.

I have seen significant improvement in selecting young players and havin them perform: Loko, sio, allgood, Blair, Ryan and even Morgan. Ohanlon not so much but it's a good strike rate overall

We have identified a weakness in the outside backs and brought some promising youngsters in. We have bought tonga and hoppa and it's hard to see we could have bought better in the circumstances.

We clearly acknowledge a deficiency in the backrow and are targeting it with recruitment.
Our highest paid forward is our captain and also our least effective player in the pack. This is an extension o what occurred under cayless. It is a disaster for salary cap balance, and leadership issues. This has the secondary problem of stifling the next level of player, the creative players in the side, and the next generation of leaders. It also undermines confidence which is our biggest problem.

Also the head coach seems to have the balls to stick to his guns. He has correctly identified some of our key problem areas. They have been hardcore problems for some time and aren't capable of a quick fix.

Only if he gives up in his plans or loses the courage of his convictions will I call for his sacking because some of these things have been problems for a long time.

All of them lead to up our biggest problem which is mental weakness. I support the long term plan to address that and think Kearney's vision addresses that deficiency.

I don't believe a new coach will help that. It will be a victory for the protection of player reputation and long term mediocrity.

I'm prepared to wear some short term pain for long term gain and think this is the best way forward.

I am firmly of this belief also but I believe he is struggling big time with the off field implementation and this is where the CEO should be providing guidance and assistance where necessary. The players should also be able to go to the CEO to air grievances but receive balanced advice. Sometimes when you are trying to implement structural change you can be so focused on it you forget about the human element.

Personally if it was me I would be doing my utmost to ensure a player of Haynes calibre was singing from the same hymn sheet and thus helping to lead the change rather than obstruct it.

Finally I also believe that it is dangerous to think you have all the answers when implementing change you need to exercise a degree of flexibility. You can end up in the same spot but take some slightly different paths to get there this can often lead to some unexpected positive outcomes too. This is where I believe the guidance and assistance of the CEO needs to come into play.

 

[spartan2153]

I tend to agree with Cloudsurfer's point above MITS but thank you for your considered response - It's a lot more sensible than people whining about past coaches being dismissed or sneering at concepts like the academy when in fact development and retention have been a massive problem for the club and an area where we have already demonstrably improved. This is why I suspect very strongly that most of the people expressing the anti Kearney sentiment are actually more pissed off with past decisions than supporting those now charged with improving what is clearly a mess. That to me reeks of one of the core reasons our club has had little success and has been mentally and culturally weak - too many factions and pockets of self interest.

And also as to your last point - I agree that is a valid question - but doesn't it appl equally to any coach we may replace him with? And I also believe that the past few coaches have failed that particular test in any case.

u do realise we have some 7 games in 32 attempts. As well as 1 game from 8 this year & your questioning why people think he can't coach

 

[Eels Dude]

He was brought back down to earth with the Fijian team and also found religion. He seemed pretty humble after that til last season.

So what's Hayne done to suggest to you he has an attitude problem?

 

[Wally21]

THIS!
For too long people have been patting him on the back telling him how good he is.
He needs to go spend some time with the Fijian national team, his attitude was best just after he played the for them in the world cup in late 2008.

sorry PM but you are buying into the crap that the media would have you believe. Who from the club, who actually might know has told you about his attitude problem and the fact that he didn't get on with the last 3 coaches? even Dick Stuart said he is a team man at SOO level when questioned on Foxsports.

 

[Bigfella]

u do realise we have some 7 games in 32 attempts. As well as 1 game from 8 this year & your questioning why people think he can't coach

No I didn't realise that Einstein. Thanks for the contribution.

 

[Suitman]

I'm glad you asked. Seriously glad, because you are actually addressing some factual scenarios, while most of the posts are making all sorts of unprovable, meaningless statements like "lost the support of the dressing room" "going backwards" and worse.

Like everyone else, I want to win every game and get f**king crankier than most when we lose.

But I genuinely believe we have been a very soft outfit for more like ten years.

I think that what Kearney and his crew are trying to do genuinely addresses the core problems we have had. In doing so they are confronting some problems that will lead to short term pain.

We have lacked a halfback for twenty years. That has potentially been addressed but there are big issues around him. Strong steps have been taken which I think are far more important than a few wins or losses this season.

If signs of that are still there at seasons end I won't want him sacked either.

I have seen significant improvement in selecting young players and havin them perform: Loko, sio, allgood, Blair, Ryan and even Morgan. Ohanlon not so much but it's a good strike rate overall

We have identified a weakness in the outside backs and brought some promising youngsters in. We have bought tonga and hoppa and it's hard to see we could have bought better in the circumstances.

We clearly acknowledge a deficiency in the backrow and are targeting it with recruitment.
Our highest paid forward is our captain and also our least effective player in the pack. This is an extension o what occurred under cayless. It is a disaster for salary cap balance, and leadership issues. This has the secondary problem of stifling the next level of player, the creative players in the side, and the next generation of leaders. It also undermines confidence which is our biggest problem.

Also the head coach seems to have the balls to stick to his guns. He has correctly identified some of our key problem areas. They have been hardcore problems for some time and aren't capable of a quick fix.

Only if he gives up in his plans or loses the courage of his convictions will I call for his sacking because some of these things have been problems for a long time.

All of them lead to up our biggest problem which is mental weakness. I support the long term plan to address that and think Kearney's vision addresses that deficiency.

I don't believe a new coach will help that. It will be a victory for the protection of player reputation and long term mediocrity.

I'm prepared to wear some short term pain for long term gain and think this is the best way forward.

That's exactly my take on it too.
One of the more reasoned posts I have read in a long time.

Suity

 

[MarkInTheStands]

I tend to agree with Cloudsurfer's point above MITS but thank you for your considered response - It's a lot more sensible than people whining about past coaches being dismissed or sneering at concepts like the academy when in fact development and retention have been a massive problem for the club and an area where we have already demonstrably improved. This is why I suspect very strongly that most of the people expressing the anti Kearney sentiment are actually more pissed off with past decisions than supporting those now charged with improving what is clearly a mess. That to me reeks of one of the core reasons our club has had little success and has been mentally and culturally weak - too many factions and pockets of self interest.

And also as to your last point - I agree that is a valid question - but doesn't it appl equally to any coach we may replace him with? And I also believe that the past few coaches have failed that particular test in any case.

Bigfella, Firstly we must disagree, retaining the players we want from our junior ranks has been an issue, but generating players that go on the play first grade is not the problem. An Academy, or a Jets or a High Performance Unit, will all have the same problem at this club. An over abundance of players and a lack of spots and cash. We are lucky at this time we have so many players leaving.
Having said that, who have we signed or retained for next year?

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.

What would it have taken? A week away from the hustle and bustle, playing golf, training and sit down team meetings where everyone got to work out their issues and help them become a team? That might have at least gotten everyone on side to perform on the footy field. But from the first trial you could tell they were not there.

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not. Yet for 15 minutes last week we showed that the mentality is not that far away. However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that. Yet we have seen our club play well for a grand total of 35 minutes this season. Firstly against manly when they became a shot duck and then against the tigers when they slacked off their performance and we found them out repeatedly on the edge.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now.

 

[oldmancraigy]

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.[/COLOR]

Partly would agree.

However it's worth noting the commonly used adage that it takes 18 months to generate a new culture.

Personally I think SK had the players playing "his way" by round 11 last season. Just couldn't win games in the last 5 minutes.

Was hoping that the addition of 2 real halves would change that this year. Quite disappointed that for some reason we seem to need to learn to play the right way all over again...

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Partly would agree.

However it's worth noting the commonly used adage that it takes 18 months to generate a new culture.

Personally I think SK had the players playing "his way" by round 11 last season. Just couldn't win games in the last 5 minutes.

Was hoping that the addition of 2 real halves would change that this year. Quite disappointed that for some reason we seem to need to learn to play the right way all over again...

Some would say the players we bought don't suit our style. Which is interesting as we were playing that style and knew what we wanted.

The Culture is one thing, and yes it takes 18 months, but the results are ever improving during that time.

Last year we were the best 65 minute football side in the land, this year so far we can't even do that.

 

[Bigfella]

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not. Yet for 15 minutes last week we showed that the mentality is not that far away. However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that. Yet we have seen our club play well for a grand total of 35 minutes this season. Firstly against manly when they became a shot duck and then against the tigers when they slacked off their performance and we found them out repeatedly on the edge.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now.

Firstly we must disagree, retaining the players we want from our junior ranks has been an issue, but generating players that go on the play first grade is not the problem

Paul Gallen, James Maloney, David Williams, Tony Williams, Nathan Gardener, are just a hamdful of examples of blokes from our junior system who played bugger all first grade with us but have done very well at other clubs and who would walk in to our side at the moment.

I agree when people say that you can't keep them all - but to have these blokes in your system and not give them a crack and find out if they are good enough is a tragedy, especially when they kick on elsewhere. Even more if you end up having to bid overs to get them back.

Having said that, who have we signed or retained for next year?

We have identified / signed or retained the following young players who are showing every sign of making a success of the top grade:

Mannah, Allgood, Blair, Loko, Sio, Ryan, Morgan. We have also given a chance to Lassalo and O'Hanlon. In a season and a bit that's good work IMO and must surely compare more than favourably with any coach in the post Smith era?

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.

These are not really reasoned arguments - just meaningless assertions - but:

Hagan Anderson and even Smith all failed to address this aspect of the club culture. IMO none of them even acknowledged it. They all had much longer to achieve the task and failed.

We will never be able to prove it, but I believe that any resistance being encountered by Kearney from the playing group is precisely because he is doing something about it.

I don't believe two or even three years is unreasonable to undo a culture that has been ingrained for more than ten years. Especially when a senior playing core is still present, albeit diminished in size.

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not.

I agree the mentality is not. I don't think it has been for a long time.

I seriously question aspects of the talent of the playing group though. I have said for three years we have profoundly neglected the role that big fast strong outside backs play in the modern game.

The only reason we are now close to acceptable in this area is the emergence of two absolute rookies and the purcahse of one injured rep player. It has still left us massively short on class in these aspects, which takes a huge toll in defence and attack.

I also think we have neglected the hooking role, although I believe Matt K has lifted this year which is encouraging. He is still in a position of having zero competetion though.

And our halves while talented are new to each other and mercurial at best.

Our backrow is a fair way off the pace IMO.

However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Don't know which ones you are referring to but stories in the paper don't concern me too much.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that.

I agree. But we have a number of personnel changes and a particular loss of experience. At times we have had five or six new players in our backline where a lot of the defensive problems have been.

Plus Hayne's unavailability and subsequent lack of full fitness have not helped at all.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now

Anderson had the setback of losing the GF and couldn't get them to lift in 2010. I would have kept him too but they didn't and completely agree about spilt milk.

Likewise Hagan had the qualifying final loss to Melbourne followed by a very ordinary year. Same applies.

Glad to hear you are hoping for improvement. I get the feeling a lot of people just want some blood, will not acknowledge any of the systemic failings in the club or any of the modest improvements being implemented.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Some would say the players we bought don't suit our style. Which is interesting as we were playing that style and knew what we wanted.

The Culture is one thing, and yes it takes 18 months, but the results are ever improving during that time.

Last year we were the best 65 minute football side in the land, this year so far we can't even do that.

I think since round 5 we've been a pretty handy 65 minute footy side.

But IMO that's not really good enough - I expect us to play for 80. There's certainly SOMETHING wrong with the cattle we've assembled - I know it takes time, but I'm as impatient as anyone.

I just see there being some mental block in terms of actually winning games. We've lost that many close games over the last 15 months that it's just not funny...

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Firstly we must disagree, retaining the players we want from our junior ranks has been an issue, but generating players that go on the play first grade is not the problem

Paul Gallen, James Maloney, David Williams, Tony Williams, Nathan Gardener, are just a hamdful of examples of blokes from our junior system who played bugger all first grade with us but have done very well at other clubs and who would walk in to our side at the moment.

I agree when people say that you can't keep them all - but to have these blokes in your system and not give them a crack and find out if they are good enough is a tragedy, especially when they kick on elsewhere. Even more if you end up having to bid overs to get them back.

Maloney was Hagan's call, he won a premiership with Wenty, his nick name down there was "Sterlo", we all wanted to keep him and some say if Hagan had spoke to James told him he was in his plans he would have.

Gallen didn't play all his Junior Reps football with Parramatta, I am quite sure he was picked up by the Sharks earlier than SG Ball or Jersey Flegg.

David Williams was behind a large number of Wingers and Centres, and T-Rex was a cost issue.

Having said that, who have we signed or retained for next year?

We have identified / signed or retained the following young players who are showing every sign of making a success of the top grade:

Mannah, Allgood, Blair, Loko, Sio, Ryan, Morgan. We have also given a chance to Lassalo and O'Hanlon. In a season and a bit that's good work IMO and must surely compare more than favourably with any coach in the post Smith era?

All players that were retained or came from our system, but have been in that system since 2009. Except Blair is from the Roosters system. I know, I have watched them play from Junior Reps level up. Again we are lucky we lost so many in the last two years to give these kids a shot.

As for taking 2 years to solve the Mental Problems at the club. . . . Poppycock.

Seriously if this coach and his team can't get in there and do something with these issues then they are either 1) Usless or 2) Clueless.

These are not really reasoned arguments - just meaningless assertions - but:

Hagan Anderson and even Smith all failed to address this aspect of the club culture. IMO none of them even acknowledged it. They all had much longer to achieve the task and failed.

We will never be able to prove it, but I believe that any resistance being encountered by Kearney from the playing group is precisely because he is doing something about it.

I don't believe two or even three years is unreasonable to undo a culture that has been ingrained for more than ten years. Especially when a senior playing core is still present, albeit diminished in size.

Indeed they are meaningless assertions.

Some actions by the coaches might show that to be wrong, for example, Coach Anderson telling the Media that Jarryd didn't have his best game and needs to improve.

The stories that came from that and the calls for sit down discussions was a joke.

If after 2 and a half years we are still failing and this assertion is proven to be meaningless we will have wasted our best crop of juniors plus 3 season maybe more on hunches and promises.

The talent is in the side, the mentality is not.

I agree the mentality is not. I don't think it has been for a long time.

I seriously question aspects of the talent of the playing group though. I have said for three years we have profoundly neglected the role that big fast strong outside backs play in the modern game.

The only reason we are now close to acceptable in this area is the emergence of two absolute rookies and the purcahse of one injured rep player. It has still left us massively short on class in these aspects, which takes a huge toll in defence and attack.

I also think we have neglected the hooking role, although I believe Matt K has lifted this year which is encouraging. He is still in a position of having zero competetion though.

And our halves while talented are new to each other and mercurial at best.

Our backrow is a fair way off the pace IMO.

Sure but they are still a top 8 side, not a premiership side but a top 8 side if they put their minds to it.

As for MK, I personally blame Osborne for not looking for replacements, but that is another story.

However stories surrounding those 15 minutes in the paper are disturbing.

Don't know which ones you are referring to but stories in the paper don't concern me too much.

Might want to have a read of the Telegraph our coach if the article is to be believed has not only put his foot in his mouth but has chewed repeatedly. Also our star player has intimated that the side played well in the last 15 minutes because they didn't play to the coaches game plan.

Perceptions are reality for most and at the moment the perception of our club and the coach is poor, these articles have done nothing to strengthen them.

Last year we played well for 60 - 65 minutes before we fell down. I would have hoped that our coaching staff could have built on that.

I agree. But we have a number of personnel changes and a particular loss of experience. At times we have had five or six new players in our backline where a lot of the defensive problems have been.

Plus Hayne's unavailability and subsequent lack of full fitness have not helped at all.

None of this accounts for our behavior on the field, with Jarryd or with out him our side has on multiple occasions this dropped their heads for long portions of the game. Sometimes as early as the 25th minute. That says to me there is a confidence problem. The side is not confident that they can put on the points, it is up to the coaching staff to give them that confidence or at least help them find it.

As for previous coaches being unable to get the team to recover from a setback. Well Hagan and Anderson never got the chance I believe, I don’t think Hagan dissevered the chance, and personally I would have loved to have seen what DA could have done with the supposed "worst list in the NRL" last year, after an off season together to get over the outcome of 2010. But it didn't happen and being honest we haven't had a lot to enjoy since. Two off seasons, and so far nothing but a gradual decline. We can’t cry over spilt milk and we have to move forward.

So will the club go better next year with the majority of the “soft underbelly” removed. That is the test and Winter Solstice looms large as a date for a decision. How will it go, I don’t know and I can only hope but for now

Anderson had the setback of losing the GF and couldn't get them to lift in 2010. I would have kept him too but they didn't and completely agree about spilt milk.

That wasn't the set back. The set back was the Melbourne Storm salary cap rort and the players reaction to it.

Likewise Hagan had the qualifying final loss to Melbourne followed by a very ordinary year. Same applies.

Glad to hear you are hoping for improvement. I get the feeling a lot of people just want some blood, will not acknowledge any of the systemic failings in the club or any of the modest improvements being implemented.

I always hope for improvement, in a club without a premiership for 26 years you have to, am I confident of improvement, on the results shown so far, not really.

 

[emjaycee]

In reference to the original post about Jaryd swearing at the trainer and pointing to the coaches box, it is time I come clean... i know exactly what he said and why.

"FMD, i told u i wanted emjaycee and his daughter sitting next to the tunnel. Why the f@#k can i see them up the top of the Thornett stand. Can't u dumb fu€#ers get anything right???"

Sorry Jaryd, we got a free upgrade. Didnt mean to cause a fuss.

 

[Suitman]

Glad this has been cleared up then.

Suity