Divided rugby league fell 25 years ago – but united has it conquered? by Steve Mascord.

[Pneuma]

oh why bring me back to this. I WAS OUT MAN

I didnt run direct comparisons to previous years this season in part due to this, and the previous two years being impacted by COVID.

Apologies. Love your work bro.

 

[mave]

The wookie is back baby, ready to drown this GROTD dope with facts.....again

 

[Iamback]

I respect you muchly. Do not respond logically to this peanut. He will rant like nobody has ever ranted before. He makes the whinging Pom look like happy Harry!

It is ok, Wookie smacked him down too.

Get the popcorn ready

 

[Iamback]

hahahahahahaha the f**ken peanut is saying that A League and Australian Baseball league are better than NRL due to every Metro being covered.

Mid week Meth hit?

 

[This Year?]

Can someone link Mascord to this thread so he can see the Frankenf**k he has necro'd.

Me right now

 

[Wb1234]

The wookie is back baby, ready to drown this GROTD dope with facts.....again

It’s his off season

 

[The_Wookie]

It’s his off season

Just have too damn much actual work stuff to do at the moment. Its crazy.

 

[Cheese sandwich]

That's your opinion and it makes zero sense.

I care about the long-term survival of rugby league.

Only a simpleton would think the game benefits from having nine small clubs in Sydney while the rest of the country is under-represented. The fact you keep advocating for the game to squander its small fortune on keeping the game concentrated around Sydney is insane because it limits the amount of money we can generate from sponsorship and broadcast rights.

How many sports leagues in this country have no presence in Adelaide and Perth?

Here's a list of leagues that have teams in every metropolitan market.

• National Basketball League
• A-League
• W-League
• Australian Fumbleball League
• AFLW
• Big Bash League
• Women's Big Bash League
• Sheffield Shield
• Women's National Cricket League
• Super Netball
• Hockey One
• Australian Baseball League

Other leagues have a greater footprint in the metropolitan markets than our game. They include the Australian Ice Hockey League, Super Rugby, WNBL.



It's been explained to you a gazillion times already that Sydney cannot support nine clubs without assistance from the governing body. More importantly, propping up financially unviable teams in Sydney does nothing to grow the game in new markets. We've reached the maximum level of fan support in Sydney and it's not enough to support nine clubs. All of this crap about "it's the clubs' rights to hoard all the money and prevent expansion, blah blah blah" doesn't change any of this. I'd argue that propping up nine small clubs in Sydney isn't doing anything for the game at the grassroots level in the game's heartland when our income stream is well below AwFuL, who've been pumping millions into Queensland and NSW for decades and grown their participation base. They've actually made great strides in Queensland.


You know the bulk of their revenue comes from the annual grant and gaming machine earnings.

How do you explain V'landys saying "the business case must stack up" for the Dolphins to get a licence, yet there's several Sydney clubs who don't have half of what Redcliffe offer?

It's a massive double standard.

Why do you believe there should be one rule for Sydney and another rule for everyone else?



You got that one wrong.

News Ltd, then half-owners of the NRL, challenged the Federal Court decision to reinstate the Rabbitohs, subsequently won the High Court verdict but then declined to exercise their newly established power to boot them from the league once more.​

​

Souths embody redemption, resilience and the great game

'THE People's Team'' proclaimed a banner carried by one of the 80,000 in the march to Sydney Town Hall on an oppressively hot day in November 2000, protesting the sacking of South Sydney from the NRL.

www.smh.com.au

So?



Participation for fumbleball in NSW and Queensland has grown in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years. It draws bloody good crowds in Brisbane and Sydney. The Lions and Swans are financially stronger than every Sydney NRL club. I'd call that a win for AwFuL.

Now show me where it was stated rugby league would become a "major sport" in Adelaide in Perth?

I've never said anything of the sort.

I've said our game can carve out a strong niche if it invests enough time and resources into developing the game in new markets. The Melbourne Storm have proven that it's possible, despite numerous rugby league fans from Sydney calling for their removal over the years.

Now tell me why you believe rugby league fans outside of NSW are obligated to put the survival of nine small Sydney clubs ahead of expansion?

You know very well that the NSWRL f**ked over the Broncos, Cowboys, Crushers, Warriors and Reds. At one stage you cited an article that pointed out the double standards Quayle and Arthurson used against the Broncos to rob them of $500k. I've shown you a transcript of Neil Cadigan's book which details the harsh requirements heaped upon the expansion clubs in 1995. These requirements bankrupted the clubs and forced them to sign with Super League just to survive. I've never heard you condemn the league for its favouritism of NSWRL clubs.

Leagues across the country have been raped and pillaged to death by NSWRL clubs. Test football has taken a backseat because the NRL holds all the power, with the bulk of it being tied up in Sydney due to it holding most of the clubs. So not only has the traditional NSWRL clubs killed other competitions and limited the game's growth in new markets, they've turned the once thriving Test arena into a shell of what it once was. There was a time in the past when the biggest honour was playing for Australia on an Ashes Tour in front of massive crowds. Those days are gone because the clubs don't want to risk their players getting injured. It's hurt the game severely in England and prevented New Zealand Rugby League from earning much needed revenue from Test series. The game in New Zealand is in dire straights right now. The ARLC has done nothing to help it.

I'd like to see more teams in Queensland and New Zealand. I'd also like to see teams in Adelaide and Perth. That cannot happen while we've got nine small teams in Sydney. The fact that more than half of the teams from the most brutal collision sport are from one market gives them a massive advantage over the rest of the league, as they don't have to travel as far and are thus given more time to recover. Players take this into consideration when deciding which club to join.

You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
My, my, my, my
(You can't touch this)
Music hits me so hard
Makes me say "Oh, my Lord
Thank you for blessing me
With a mind to rhyme and two hyped feet"
It feels good when you know you're down
A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown
And I'm known as such
And this is a beat, uh, you can't touch
I told you, homeboy
You can't touch this
Yeah, that's how we livin', and ya know
You can't touch this
Look in my eyes, man
You can't touch this
Yo, let me bust the funky Iyrics
You can't touch this
Fresh new kicks and pants
You got it like that
Now you know you wanna dance
So, move outta your seat
And get a fly girl
And catch this beat
While it's rolling
Hold on
Pump a little bit and let 'em know it's going on
Like that, like that
Cold on a mission, so fall on back
Let 'em know that you're too much
And this is a beat, uh, they can't touch
Yo, I told you
You can't touch this
Why you standing there, man?
You can't touch this
Yo, sound the bell, school's in, sucker
You can't touch this
Give me a song or rhythm
Making them sweat, that's what I'm giving them
Now, they know
You talk about the Hammer
When you're talkin 'bout a show
That's hyped and tight
Singers are sweatin'
So pass them a wipe or a tape
To learn
What it's gonna take in the 90's to burn
The chart's legit
Either work hard or you might as well quit
That's word, because, you know
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
"Go with the flow", it is said
If you can't groove to this, then you probably are dead
So, wave your hands in the air
Bust a few moves
Run your fingers through your hair
This is it, for a winner
Dance to this and you're gonna get thinner
Now move, slide your rump
Just for a minute, let's all do the bump
(Bump, bump, bump)
Yeah
You can't touch this
Look, man
You can't touch this
You'll probably get hyped, boy, 'cause you know you can't
You can't touch this
Ring the bell, school's back in
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
Every time you see me
That Hammer's just so hype
I'm dope on the floor
And I'm magic on the mic
Now, why would I ever
Stop doing this
With others making records
That just don't hit?
I toured around the world
From London to The Bay
It's "Hammer! Go, Hammer! MC Hammer! Yo, Hammer!"
And the rest can go and play
"U Can't Touch This"
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Yeah
You can't touch this
I told you
You can't touch this
Too hype, you can't touch this
Yo, we're outta here
You can't touch this

 

[Pneuma]

Hehehe

 

[The_Wookie]

That's your opinion and it makes zero sense.

The league funding the clubs is not an opinion, its literally in their license and funding agreements.

I care about the long-term survival of rugby league.

Is it in the long term interest of rugby league to get rid of historic clubs with tens of thousands of fans, most of whom will not come back to the league (and this is based off the outcomes from the AFL and Fitzroy and the fallout from Superleague)

Only a simpleton would think the game benefits from having nine small clubs in Sydney while the rest of the country is under-represented.

Its by far the largest rugby league centre on the planet. The game is on an even keel and rising. The game is clearly benefiting right now. Better facilities and smart scheduling will only see it grow further.

The fact you keep advocating for the game to squander its small fortune on keeping the game concentrated around Sydney is insane because it limits the amount of money we can generate from sponsorship and broadcast rights.

I see literally no reason why the NRL cant emulate the AFL expansion plan and keep its Sydney teams AND expand to Perth and maybe even Adelaide.

How many sports leagues in this country have no presence in Adelaide and Perth?

You know how many of those league actually generate anywhere near the revenue - let alone profit - of the NRL?

1. The AFL

Going full on metro hasnt exactly been a massively financially rewarding exercise for anyone else.

Other leagues have a greater footprint in the metropolitan markets than our game. They include the Australian Ice Hockey League, Super Rugby, WNBL.

Those are really bad examples of how to do something given they generate 3/10s of bugger all interest and support compared to the NRL

It's been explained to you a gazillion times already that Sydney cannot support nine clubs without assistance from the governing body.

and its been explained to you, that the league has to support its incumbent clubs. They are literally the reason the league can afford to do anything. And as mentioned earlier - license and funding agreements etc etc.

More importantly, propping up financially unviable teams in Sydney does nothing to grow the game in new markets.

Not one NRL team in Sydney is financially unviable. Period. I mean unless you start cherry picking their revenue streams, but i mean who would do a thing like that.

We've reached the maximum level of fan support in Sydney and it's not enough to support nine clubs.

Thats doubtful. Particularly since crowd figures used to actually be higher than they are now 10 years ago - and should get there again the way things are going.

All of this crap about "it's the clubs' rights to hoard all the money and prevent expansion, blah blah blah" doesn't change any of this.

No one ever said it was the clubs right to prevent expansion.

I'd argue that propping up nine small clubs in Sydney isn't doing anything for the game at the grassroots level in the game's heartland when our income stream is well below AwFuL, who've been pumping millions into Queensland and NSW for decades and grown their participation base.

There are plenty of AFL fans who make the same argument about the AFL and its clubs.

You know the bulk of their revenue comes from the annual grant and gaming machine earnings.

Not only are both of these legal forms of income in NSW, but they are entitled to the damn grant.

How do you explain V'landys saying "the business case must stack up" for the Dolphins to get a licence, yet there's several Sydney clubs who don't have half of what Redcliffe offer?

It's a massive double standard.

No, its the price you pay to join a competition which has other options besides you. The League and incumbents get to choose who joins the club and under what terms. See also: the AFL and Tasmania.

Why do you believe there should be one rule for Sydney and another rule for everyone else?

Its always going to be a different standard now than teams that joined 30 years ago or decades earlier than that. Thats inevitable. Business has changed, financial conduct rules are different, and the league (and its incumbent clubs) have a right to expect any new bidder to be able to handle itself financially - this includes the same grant they will get as every other club in the league.

You got that one wrong.

​

So they werent removed for financial reasons by the NRL Partnership? I mean the High Court decision says they were wrongfully excluded. Being readmitted by the comp after being kicked out for financial cause was my point.

They were kicked from the 2000 and 2001 seasons for failing to meet the NRLs financial criteria, readmitted after the Federal Court appeal that went their way. Gallop stated in 2003 that the High Court decision didnt matter in terms of the club staying in the comp after reinstantement.

The NRL chief, David Gallop, said the club was "a valued part of the competition".

"It has never been the intention of either of the NRL partners . . . that the [High Court] case would affect South Sydney's future in the competition in any way," he said.

Participation for fumbleball in NSW and Queensland has grown in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years.

Kind of. depends whose figures you believe.

It draws bloody good crowds in Brisbane and Sydney. The Lions and Swans are financially stronger than every Sydney NRL club. I'd call that a win for AwFuL.

GWS and Gold Coast draw f**k all. The Lions are 20m in debt - half of it to the AFL - and receive 23m a year from the AFL in distributions, including 12m a year OVER the base distribition. The Swans are much better - but that club has existed since before there WAS a rugby league and draws on an extensive Melbourne membership from its South Melbourne days.

Now tell me why you believe rugby league fans outside of NSW are obligated to put the survival of nine small Sydney clubs ahead of expansion?

They arent. The League is however obliged to support its clubs - again licence and funding agreements etc etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

You know very well that the NSWRL f**ked over the Broncos, Cowboys, Crushers, Warriors and Reds. At one stage you cited an article that pointed out the double standards Quayle and Arthurson used against the Broncos to rob them of $500k. I've shown you a transcript of Neil Cadigan's book which details the harsh requirements heaped upon the expansion clubs in 1995. These requirements bankrupted the clubs and forced them to sign with Super League just to survive. I've never heard you condemn the league for its favouritism of NSWRL clubs.

I dont give a damn about what the NSWRL did or didnt do back in the day. This isnt 1995 - neither the NRL or the AFL covered themselves in glory with the terms they gave new clubs from the late 80s and early 90s.

Leagues across the country have been raped and pillaged to death by NSWRL clubs.

National spread of comps will do that, More clubs need more players. The AFL did it to state and country leagues too. the BBL and IPL are doing it to state cricket.

Test football has taken a backseat because the NRL holds all the power, with the bulk of it being tied up in Sydney due to it holding most of the clubs. So not only has the traditional NSWRL clubs killed other competitions and limited the game's growth in new markets, they've turned the once thriving Test arena into a shell of what it once was.

Greater professionalism in the competition was always going to be a threat to representative football. Clubs want players available - and so do fans in the main. That Origin is still going strong for the NRL is almost a miracle at this point - clubs killed the AFL version, as well as a lack of fan interest at crucial times.

I'd like to see more teams in Queensland and New Zealand. I'd also like to see teams in Adelaide and Perth. That cannot happen while we've got nine small teams in Sydney.

Of course it can. You just add more teams.

The fact that more than half of the teams from the most brutal collision sport are from one market gives them a massive advantage over the rest of the league, as they don't have to travel as far and are thus given more time to recover. Players take this into consideration when deciding which club to join.

Sure.

 

[Wb1234]

T

You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
My, my, my, my
(You can't touch this)
Music hits me so hard
Makes me say "Oh, my Lord
Thank you for blessing me
With a mind to rhyme and two hyped feet"
It feels good when you know you're down
A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown
And I'm known as such
And this is a beat, uh, you can't touch
I told you, homeboy
You can't touch this
Yeah, that's how we livin', and ya know
You can't touch this
Look in my eyes, man
You can't touch this
Yo, let me bust the funky Iyrics
You can't touch this
Fresh new kicks and pants
You got it like that
Now you know you wanna dance
So, move outta your seat
And get a fly girl
And catch this beat
While it's rolling
Hold on
Pump a little bit and let 'em know it's going on
Like that, like that
Cold on a mission, so fall on back
Let 'em know that you're too much
And this is a beat, uh, they can't touch
Yo, I told you
You can't touch this
Why you standing there, man?
You can't touch this
Yo, sound the bell, school's in, sucker
You can't touch this
Give me a song or rhythm
Making them sweat, that's what I'm giving them
Now, they know
You talk about the Hammer
When you're talkin 'bout a show
That's hyped and tight
Singers are sweatin'
So pass them a wipe or a tape
To learn
What it's gonna take in the 90's to burn
The chart's legit
Either work hard or you might as well quit
That's word, because, you know
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
"Go with the flow", it is said
If you can't groove to this, then you probably are dead
So, wave your hands in the air
Bust a few moves
Run your fingers through your hair
This is it, for a winner
Dance to this and you're gonna get thinner
Now move, slide your rump
Just for a minute, let's all do the bump
(Bump, bump, bump)
Yeah
You can't touch this
Look, man
You can't touch this
You'll probably get hyped, boy, 'cause you know you can't
You can't touch this
Ring the bell, school's back in
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Break it down!
Stop, Hammer time!
Every time you see me
That Hammer's just so hype
I'm dope on the floor
And I'm magic on the mic
Now, why would I ever
Stop doing this
With others making records
That just don't hit?
I toured around the world
From London to The Bay
It's "Hammer! Go, Hammer! MC Hammer! Yo, Hammer!"
And the rest can go and play
"U Can't Touch This"
You can't touch this
You can't touch this
Yeah
You can't touch this
I told you
You can't touch this
Too hype, you can't touch this
Yo, we're outta here
You can't touch this

This takes me back to the ozrock hotel in the cross and madness on pit st or the polish club in Ashfield

 

[Pneuma]

I dont give a damn about what the NSWRL did or didnt do back in the day. This isnt 1995 - neither the NRL or the AFL covered themselves in glory with the terms they gave new clubs from the late 80s and early 90s.



National spread of comps will do that, More clubs need more players. The AFL did it to state and country leagues too. the BBL and IPL are doing it to state cricket.



Greater professionalism in the competition was always going to be a threat to representative football. Clubs want players available - and so do fans in the main. That Origin is still going strong for the NRL is almost a miracle at this point - clubs killed the AFL version, as well as a lack of fan interest at crucial times.



Of course it can. You just add more teams.



Sure.

This is beautiful. A joy to behold. You are my hero. Thank you!

 

[Perth Red]

Whats interesting and exciting (rather than looking backwards) is what next for the NRL and RL more generally?
1. There are some key grassroots issues that need sorting for sure and how the game continues to approach the CTE issue will play a big part in how the grassroots fairs into the coming years. NFL has shown you dont need a big grassroots to remain a popular sport but in a country our size it plays a more significant role.
2. NRl footprint. Team 18 will be very interesting to see where it gets placed. The safe bet is Perth, the NRL may be more ambitious and try and make a dent in NZ at long last or could be a total wildcard and have the balls to go to PNG. If it ends up being the NSW bears or Firehawks I think we are in some serious trouble as a sport.
3. The games finances seem to be in rude health at last and clubs finally look to be sustainable. Hopefully this will see stronger investment in fan engagement, marketing and growing the supporter base, not just to paying off sacked coaches.
4. The games supporter base has been pretty stagnant for a couple of decades. For the last ten years the NRL's response has been new stadiums. Now that has certainly helped but with many clubs still not playing in decent venues and the new stadium impact not being that big as hoped for most teams it will be interesting to see how the NRL and its clubs goes about engaging a new generation of fans and getting them actively supporting clubs.
5. The next TV deal. This is going to be a biggie. The bar is set very high now and the game really needs to be reclose that gap. Anything less than $500mill a year will be an abject failure, again.
6. The International game. Abdo and Vlandys are talking the talk when it comes to developing IRL but do they have the plan? Cutting mid season tests was a big blow but hopefully we can get a decent calendar for at least the next few years locked in.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[Pneuma]

One can only imagine the extraordinary splurge of drivel being composed in Logan at this time.

 

[Pneuma]

Whats interesting and exciting (rather than looking backwards) is what next for the NRL and RL more generally?
1. There are some key grassroots issues that need sorting for sure and how the game continues to approach the CTE issue will play a big part in how the grassroots fairs into the coming years. NFL has shown you dont need a big grassroots to remain a popular sport but in a country our size it plays a more significant role.
2. NRl footprint. Team 18 will be very interesting to see where it gets placed. The safe bet is Perth, the NRL may be more ambitious and try and make a dent in NZ at long last or could be a total wildcard and have the balls to go to PNG. If it ends up being the NSW bears or Firehawks I think we are in some serious trouble as a sport.
3. The games finances seem to be in rude health at last and clubs finally look to be sustainable. Hopefully this will see stronger investment in fan engagement, marketing and growing the supporter base, not just to paying off sacked coaches.
4. The games supporter base has been pretty stagnant for a couple of decades. For the last ten years the NRL's response has been new stadiums. Now that has certainly helped but with many clubs still not playing in decent venues and the new stadium impact not being that big as hoped for most teams it will be interesting to see how the NRL and its clubs goes about engaging a new generation of fans and getting them actively supporting clubs.
5. The next TV deal. This is going to be a biggie. The bar is set very high now and the game really needs to be reclose that gap. Anything less than $500mill a year will be an abject failure, again.
6. The International game. Abdo and Vlandys are talking the talk when it comes to developing IRL but do they have the plan? Cutting mid season tests was a big blow but hopefully we can get a decent calendar for at least the next few years locked in.

Interesting times ahead.

Was this written by your happy twin sister?

 

[Iamback]

Once again the AFL fan proves he has no idea. All those we have answers too

 

[Perth Red]

Once again the AFL fan proves he has no idea. All those we have answers too

Thanks for that insightful contribution. Maybe needs a logan pic?

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

One can only imagine the extraordinary splurge of drivel being composed in Logan at this time.

Lol he’ll be furiously mashing away at the keyboard writing a 4000 word reply that will get 1 like.off his dimwit mate .
while many many posters will get their daily laugh ( you know the great ones where you laugh till you can’t breathe & you nearly pass out ).
def worth it

 

[Iamback]

Thanks for that insightful contribution. Maybe needs a logan pic?

Google gives you answers to your post. It will also give you the Logan pic you crave