Divided rugby league fell 25 years ago – but united has it conquered? by Steve Mascord.

[Wb1234]

Not all are Union schools Holy Cross in Ryde and St Dominics in Penrith are League schools but aren't public. Even still guys like Suualli, Pensini, Cam Murray all went to Union schools and are in League now

These players get to 14 or so and know they are good, NRL clubs get them in the good schools so it is good for the top kids isport. Others though drop out for apprenticeships and other reasons

Yeh Catholic schools Make sense

I worry about the coe schools they get indoctrinated in the dark side

 

[Iamback]

Yeh Catholic schools Make sense

I worry about the coe schools they get indoctrinated in the dark side

Like I said in the NZ thread, Unless the ARU is going to top up a player then there is no money in them going to that side. What do Shute Shield players get a few thousand a year?

 

[Reflector]

All this whinging about pokies benefiting Sydney teams. Should we take a closer look at the reasons behind Andrew Gee leaving the game and then refusing to answer questions about 400k (?) just vanishing from their leagues club and then magically reappeaing?

There was also always, speculation of Broncos players being allocated a specific Queen of the Nile machine in the leagus club. We in rugby league like to talk shit but this rumour was no different to the Roosters sombrero. Where there is permanent smoke there is fire.

Or how about the thoroughbreds? Would that club have been the powerhouse that it was without those things? Would they have created the history without those things? Most rational thinkers know the answer to that.

You follow the game long enough you understand that every single team has done, is doing, or will do - at some point, some dodgy shit. That's why (as a fan) you either engage in the banter with tongue firmly in cheek, or you just stfu.

Not sure the Tigers or Titans could afford to do dodgy shit, TBF.

Free Macca's upsize for players, maybe?

 

[Iamback]

Not sure the Tigers or Titans could afford to do dodgy shit, TBF.

Free Macca's upsize for players, maybe?

Are you forgetting the Barber shop in the CoE?

Sheens sign on bonus was a free rats tail

 

[The_Wookie]

Actually, more kids are watching "other sports". Gemba conducted an analysis of Australian viewing habits of local and foreign sports to gauge the viability of the NRL adding a 17th team to the competition. The results on p10 showed that sports such as NRL, AFL, Cricket are in serious decline while American sports are thriving.

Survey data almost never matches the ratings data. Hence the mockery that Roy Morgan gets from some corners.

According to the Gemba report, a team needs to generate $10,000,000 from game day to cover the costs of competing in the NRL.

Here's an excerpt from p28.

• Based on benchmarks from existing smaller NRL clubs, it is estimated that a new club would have operating costs of $23.6m per year which is largely driven by Player Wages and Other Wages​

• The NRL provides clubs with a Grant of at least $13.6m and covers some other operational expenses which aren’t included in the estimated total costs​

• Assuming a new club had an operating cost base of $23.6m, the club would need to generate $10.0m in revenue through Sponsorship, Game Day Revenue, Hospitality, Membership etc. in order to break even. This is expected to be challenging in early years due to the competitive landscape in which the club is entering​

• If the club is unable to achieve this, the operating loss would need to be covered by the club or the NRL would be required to provide additional financial support​

Fortunately they have other revenues.

Based on the annual reports of the clubs I posted on p1 of the following thread, the Bulldogs and Sharks have failed to generate $10,000,000 from game day.

In 2019 the Bulldogs generated just $7,832,705 from sponsorship, corporate hospitality, ticketing and membership. In 2018 they generated just $9,007,994.

In 2019 and 2018 the Sharks generated just $8,469,218 and $9,198,250 from sponsorship, corporate hospitality, ticketing and membership.

Pretty shit, hey?

They have other revenue streams. I mean you ignore them all you want, but they exist in the real world and in an accounting sense.

Doesn't eat club have a member on the ARLC?

If so then that means there are nine commissioners from the Sydney clubs and just three representing Queensland's three teams.

Who do you think has the most influence when it comes to voting on a resolution?

Thats simply a result of how the competition was formed. Queensland volunteered to come for the ride. The AFL has the same issues with non victorian clubs.

You can bet your arse the representatives of the Sydney clubs will vote as a block to keep the status quo in Sydney. The QRL and NSWRL have bugger all say.

Maybe they do, I dont particularly agree with the lack of indepedence in the ARLCs formation, but at least the state leagues have a say in the ARLC, they dont in the AFL.

How do you explain rugby league not dying in Queensland in 1988?

There were strong rivalries between the eight traditional BRL fanbases. Ipswich had a pretty parochial fanbase that attacked Wally Lewis during a game that was played at North Ipswich Reserve. Using your logic the game should have lost all of its fans in Brisbane when the Broncos entered the NSWRL.

By my logic? I didnt and have refused to address your fantasies about the BRL. Simply not relative to current discussion.

The NSL averaged crowds of about 5,000. The A-League draws far better attendances.

Its about more than just attendances.

It does, but it also lost a tonne of fans due to its removal of ethnic traditions. And these are the folks likely to be supporting foreign soccer leagues and ignoring the A-league.

An article on The Roar

​

You lost me right there.

 

[Captain Apollo]

A couple of small points. First the talk about leagues clubs. Many (if not all) leagues clubs have it in their constitutions to support rugby league in its locales. That is the primary reason they exist. Some people lose sight of that, but it is often fact. Wenworthville Leagues Club found this out when, back in the late 1990s, they looked at not fielding a team in the (then) Metropolitan Cup as a way to cut costs. They found out very quickly that they could not do that due to what was written into the leagues club's constitution. That is why Wenty still exist in the lower grade NSWRL competitions.

As to schools, there are quite a few schools in the Sydney Metro area alone that are noted rugby leagues schools - Matraville Sports High School, Hills Sports High School, Fairfield Patrician Brothers to name three. They are out there. Also just because they may have attended a union playing high school (e.g. Joseph Sua'ali'i going to Kings) most if not all said young players were already playing rugby league. Talking of Joseph Sua'ali'i, he started playing rugby league as a boy with the Glenmore Park Brumbies before moving to play for the Coogee Bay Wombats when he was 12.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Survey data almost never matches the ratings data. Hence the mockery that Roy Morgan gets from some corners.




Fortunately they have other revenues.



They have other revenue streams. I mean you ignore them all you want, but they exist in the real world and in an accounting sense.



Thats simply a result of how the competition was formed. Queensland volunteered to come for the ride. The AFL has the same issues with non victorian clubs.



Maybe they do, I dont particularly agree with the lack of indepedence in the ARLCs formation, but at least the state leagues have a say in the ARLC, they dont in the AFL.



By my logic? I didnt and have refused to address your fantasies about the BRL. Simply not relative to current discussion.



Its about more than just attendances.

It does, but it also lost a tonne of fans due to its removal of ethnic traditions. And these are the folks likely to be supporting foreign soccer leagues and ignoring the A-league.



You lost me right there.

he lost all but his Perth Buddy a long time ago .
We just hang around for the lols/Fantasies/lies/irrational rants etc .
& the Wookie smackdowns

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Survey data almost never matches the ratings data. Hence the mockery that Roy Morgan gets from some corners.

Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it and deflecting because you don't like the results of the Gemba report.

The ratings data provided by OzTam is a survey of about 10,000 people around the country.

OzTam place a device that measures how long a television is turned on and shows which channel it is viewing. It doesn't know whether there's anyone actually watching the TV.

The fact the two different surveys produced different results shows it is impossible to know what everyone is doing unless you monitor the entire population, which is impossible in this instance.

Fortunately they have other revenues.

They have other revenue streams. I mean you ignore them all you want, but they exist in the real world and in an accounting sense.

Gaming revenue is dirty money and it's only a matter of time until it is prohibited or severely restricted. NSW Government is toying with the idea of introducing cashless gaming cards to limit how much pundits can spend on the pokies.

Investing in real property, plant and equipment is risky and brings meagre returns. In 2021 the Penrith Panthers RLFC made $2,293,000 in 2021. They also made $79,000 from financing activities.

Cronulla Sharks had to sell their stake in the Wooloware retail project because they were in debt. They got just $39,000,000. They've already squandered half of it.

Thats simply a result of how the competition was formed. Queensland volunteered to come for the ride. The AFL has the same issues with non victorian clubs.

It's a poorly run and inequitable system that is running the game broke. Over its 10 year existence it has siphoned money out of the lower tiers of the game and handed it to the NRL clubs. Our game cannot afford this top-down approach when its survival at the junior level has never been more perilous.

Maybe they do, I dont particularly agree with the lack of indepedence in the ARLCs formation, but at least the state leagues have a say in the ARLC, they dont in the AFL.

You're finally making sense.

By my logic? I didnt and have refused to address your fantasies about the BRL. Simply not relative to current discussion.

With all due respect, you wouldn't know shit about the BRL as you haven't lived in Queensland since 1979. I grew up watching more BRL/Queensland Cup on the ABC in the 90s than NSWRL/ARL. My favourite time of the week was 2pm Saturday arvo to watch the Queensland Cup Match of the Week.

Here's a documentary on the BRL that'll bring you up to date on how strong it was and just how much passion it generated.



Watch it. You'll learn something. Great insight from Wayne Bennett, Mal Meninga, Trevor Gillmeister, Wally Lewis, Gary Belcher and other legends of Queensland Rugby League.

Shane Webke is on record admitting his generation supported the BRL and not the NSWRL. Here's a video of him and others pointing out the BRL was the prominent competition for people from Queensland.

Its about more than just attendances.

It does, but it also lost a tonne of fans due to its removal of ethnic traditions. And these are the folks likely to be supporting foreign soccer leagues and ignoring the A-league.

Just admit you were wrong.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it and deflecting because you don't like the results of the Gemba report.

The ratings data provided by OzTam is a survey of about 10,000 people around the country.

OzTam place a device that measures how long a television is turned on and shows which channel it is viewing. It doesn't know whether there's anyone actually watching the TV.

The fact the two different surveys produced different results shows it is impossible to know what everyone is doing unless you monitor the entire population, which is impossible in this instance.



Gaming revenue is dirty money and it's only a matter of time until it is prohibited or severely restricted. NSW Government is toying with the idea of introducing cashless gaming cards to limit how much pundits can spend on the pokies.

Investing in real property, plant and equipment is risky and brings meagre returns. In 2021 the Penrith Panthers RLFC made $2,293,000 in 2021. They also made $79,000 from financing activities.

Cronulla Sharks had to sell their stake in the Wooloware retail project because they were in debt. They got just $39,000,000. They've already squandered half of it.



It's a poorly run and inequitable system that is running the game broke. Over its 10 year existence it has siphoned money out of the lower tiers of the game and handed it to the NRL clubs. Our game cannot afford this top-down approach when its survival at the junior level has never been more perilous.



You're finally making sense.



With all due respect, you wouldn't know shit about the BRL as you haven't lived in Queensland since 1979. I grew up watching more BRL/Queensland Cup on the ABC in the 90s than NSWRL/ARL. My favourite time of the week was 2pm Saturday arvo to watch the Queensland Cup Match of the Week.

Here's a documentary on the BRL that'll bring you up to date on how strong it was and just how much passion it generated.



Watch it. You'll learn something. Great insight from Wayne Bennett, Mal Meninga, Trevor Gillmeister, Wally Lewis, Gary Belcher and other legends of Queensland Rugby League.

Shane Webke is on record admitting his generation supported the BRL and not the NSWRL. Here's a video of him and others pointing out the BRL was the prominent competition for people from Queensland.





Just admit you were wrong.

 

[Generalzod]

Penrith vs Parramatta produced the lowest rating for an NRL GF in history.

The Raiders vs Roosters GF drew a better rating.

What does that tell you?

Don't take my word for it.

According to MediaWeek, 2,367,000 fans tuned in nationally for the one-sided match, making it the smallest NRL grand final television audience on record.​

​

It marks the first time the overall television audience for an NRL season finale has dipped below 2.5 million viewers in the history of OzTam ratings data.​

​

These numbers are substantially lower than 2020 and 2021, when most of Australia was stuck in lockdown, but also the 2019 grand final between the Sydney Roosters and Canberra Raiders.​

​

Only 252,000 people tuned in from Melbourne, the second-lowest viewership from the Victorian capital since 2000.​

​

The numbers for other metro markets were 391,000 in Brisbane, 77,000 in Adelaide and 114,000 in Perth, according to MediaWeek.​

​

However, it was one of the largest Sydney TV audiences of the year, with 837,000 people watching from the New South Wales capital.​

​

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-grand-final-ratings-sink-to-historic-low/news-story/b2d6b753f59c0ef9161e7541b6a44008?amp

Is it because the EELS played poorly and people didn't bother watching it..

 

[Pneuma]

Now you're just being argumentative for the sake of it and deflecting because you don't like the results of the Gemba report.

The ratings data provided by OzTam is a survey of about 10,000 people around the country.

OzTam place a device that measures how long a television is turned on and shows which channel it is viewing. It doesn't know whether there's anyone actually watching the TV.

The fact the two different surveys produced different results shows it is impossible to know what everyone is doing unless you monitor the entire population, which is impossible in this instance.



Gaming revenue is dirty money and it's only a matter of time until it is prohibited or severely restricted. NSW Government is toying with the idea of introducing cashless gaming cards to limit how much pundits can spend on the pokies.

Investing in real property, plant and equipment is risky and brings meagre returns. In 2021 the Penrith Panthers RLFC made $2,293,000 in 2021. They also made $79,000 from financing activities.

Cronulla Sharks had to sell their stake in the Wooloware retail project because they were in debt. They got just $39,000,000. They've already squandered half of it.



It's a poorly run and inequitable system that is running the game broke. Over its 10 year existence it has siphoned money out of the lower tiers of the game and handed it to the NRL clubs. Our game cannot afford this top-down approach when its survival at the junior level has never been more perilous.



You're finally making sense.



With all due respect, you wouldn't know shit about the BRL as you haven't lived in Queensland since 1979. I grew up watching more BRL/Queensland Cup on the ABC in the 90s than NSWRL/ARL. My favourite time of the week was 2pm Saturday arvo to watch the Queensland Cup Match of the Week.

Here's a documentary on the BRL that'll bring you up to date on how strong it was and just how much passion it generated.



Watch it. You'll learn something. Great insight from Wayne Bennett, Mal Meninga, Trevor Gillmeister, Wally Lewis, Gary Belcher and other legends of Queensland Rugby League.

Shane Webke is on record admitting his generation supported the BRL and not the NSWRL. Here's a video of him and others pointing out the BRL was the prominent competition for people from Queensland.





Just admit you were wrong.

potato

 

[Pneuma]

Is it because the EELS played poorly and people didn't bother watching it..

Are you suggesting that people turn a television over when a grand final turns into a one sided slaughter? Sorry that goes against Mr Potato Heads agenda!

 

[Generalzod]

AFL and NRL grand final TV ratings show codes still rely on their traditional heartlands

TV ratings for the NRL and AFL grand finals show its still a challenge to engage a national broadcast audience that covers non-traditional areas.

theconversation.com

This is a good read....

 

[Generalzod]

A couple of small points. First the talk about leagues clubs. Many (of not all) leagues clubs have it in their constitutions to support rugby league in its locales. That is the primary reason they exist. Some people lose sight of that, but it is often fact. Wenworthville Leagues Club found this out when, back in the late 1990s, they looked at not fielding a team in the (then) Metropolitan Cup as a way to cut costs. They found out very quickly that they could not do that due to what was written into the leagues club's constitution. That is why Wenty still exist in the lower grade NSWRL competitions.

As to schools, there are quite a few schools in the Sydney Metro area alone that are noted rugby leagues schools - Matraville Sports High School, Hills Sports High School, Fairfield Patrician Brothers to name three. They are out there. Also just because they may have attended a union playing high school (e.g. Joseph Sua'ali'i going to Kings) most if not all said young playedrs werer already playing rugby league. Talking of Joseph Sua'ali'i, he started playing rugby league as a boy with the Glenmore Park Brumbies before moving to play for the Coogee Bay Wombats when he was 12.

You forgot to mention Endeavour Sports High lol

 

[This Year?]

I think part of the reason for the low viewer numbers for the 2022 grand final was because it was a foregone conclusion before a ball was kicked.
PENRITH aren't a very popular club outside their area and the Eels aren't a likeable team for neutrals, even though they are fairly well supported nationwide. Also the pre game entertainment wasn't exactly a drawcard for any non-NRL fan either.

 

[siv]

The ratings data provided by OzTam is a survey of about 10,000 people around the country.

OzTam place a device that measures how long a television is turned on and shows which channel it is viewing. It doesn't know whether there's anyone actually watching the TV.

10,000 people across the nation

No wonder stats are so wonky

We have 20 locations across Australia with 100k so on average only 500 in each location

Not hard to miss groups. Explains a lot

 

[Generalzod]

I think part of the reason for the low viewer numbers for the 2022 grand final was because it was a foregone conclusion before a ball was kicked.
PENRITH aren't a very popular club outside their area and the Eels aren't a likeable team for neutrals, even though they are fairly well supported nationwide. Also the pre game entertainment wasn't exactly a drawcard for any non-NRL fan either.

If it was a contest regardless who's playing people will watch.

 

[Pneuma]

I think part of the reason for the low viewer numbers for the 2022 grand final was because it was a foregone conclusion before a ball was kicked.
PENRITH aren't a very popular club outside their area and the Eels aren't a likeable team for neutrals, even though they are fairly well supported nationwide.

During the year nrl viewership was excellent. This included the finals. Fox and kayo ratings combined were significantly up for the year. Fta across the board is in decline. It’s no surprise then that the grand final got lower numbers. And it isn’t going to improve. The days of 4 million watching either grand final on fta are over.

 

[This Year?]

If it was a contest regardless who's playing people will watch.

Also it would have been interesting to see a viewership breakdown by capital city/region/state to see if it was because their club wasn't in it.

 

[Pneuma]

10,000 people across the nation

No wonder stats are so wonky

We have 20 locations across Australia with 100k so on average only 500 in each location

Not hard to miss groups. Explains a lot

The figures are not wonky. They are based on a sampling model which is well established and recognised. ABS data is based on similar models to work out unemployment rates and other labor force data.
The bogan from Logan has no idea what he is talking about as usual.