Do mergers and joint-ventures work?

[flippikat]

Your making an assumption that both of the merged clubs could have survived as stand alone entities. I think without the mergers the reality is the Tigers and Steelers would be totally gone by now and theres a good chance Magpies could have been as well. In that regards the bringing together of two failing clubs to produce one that has at least survived makes them a success.

I must admit though that it's funny how Balmain spurned the advances of Parramatta, saying that the "Parramatta Tigers" would have been a takeover.. only to link with Wests & be subject to a 20-year slow-motion takeover by the Magpies!

Mind you, with all the insanity that went on in the wake of the peace settlement, nothing really surprises me anymore.

 

[unforgiven]

Wests have two options if they stay a Sydney NRL level team, imo... either basing themselves at Bankwest, or try and partner with the MacArthur A-League team to get big upgrades to Campbelltown and go for the south-west.

If they don't commit to ONE home ground or the other, I fear that long term their future will either be relocation outside of Sydney OR demotion to NSW Cup. The splitting of home games across an array of venues just doesn't give them a consistent identity.

I think it is highly unlikely that the club will ever commit fulltime to the Campbelltown area. Wests Campbelltown have no ownership of the club with the club now being 90% owned by Wests Ashfield.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think it is highly unlikely that the club will ever commit fulltime to the Campbelltown area. Wests Campbelltown have no ownership of the club with the club now being 90% owned by Wests Ashfield.

I still think that the Panthers should be looking to enter the SW area...

With all of the transport links being built for the new airport, movement from SW to game in Penrith (or visa versa) would be a lot easier

 

[flippikat]

I still think that the Panthers should be looking to enter the SW area...

With all of the transport links being built for the new airport, movement from SW to game in Penrith (or visa versa) would be a lot easier

Do you mean a split of Panthers games between Penrith & Campbelltown (what proportion? 50/50?), or a full relocation to Campbelltown?

Looking at the map, it looks like the makings of a "Super outer-west club", West Sydney Panthers perhaps?

If that happens, it leaves Eels, Tigers, Bulldogs & Rabbitohs (to a degree, given that the Rabbitohs have been drifting west since the move to ANZ) fighting it out over the inner-west. That makes for an interesting battle over that turf.

 

[unforgiven]

Do you mean a split of Panthers games between Penrith & Campbelltown (what proportion? 50/50?), or a full relocation to Campbelltown?

No I think he just means Panthers taking over the juniors which I do not see how that is better than the Wests Tigers playing a handful of games there.

 

[bad boy bubby]

When all the merges were taking place I always felt that Balmain and Nth Sydney should have joined together and played out of both Nth Sydney Oval and Leichhardt.
As a cultural aspect I thought it made more sense. They could have been a true Sydney City team.

Anyway, the fact merges, joint ventures etc, took place many years ago, and they are still causing debate, means they kind of aren’t working for the fans. The business side of things seem to have moved organically but the fans just aren’t totally buying into it.

 

[flippikat]

Anyway, the fact merges, joint ventures etc, took place many years ago, and they are still causing debate, means they kind of aren’t working for the fans. The business side of things seem to have moved organically but the fans just aren’t totally buying into it.

It comes down to geography. If it was always neighboring clubs merging, it would have made more geographical sense & given merged teams more focus... but the problem is that often neighboring teams are the deadliest of rivals BECAUSE of their proximity (Sharks/Dragons, Bears/Sea Eagles, Rabbitohs/Roosters.. heck even Bulldogs/Eels.)

The whole rationalization/mergers at the turn of the century needed greater NRL oversight, but they just left it all to the clubs.. and the clubs delivered the dog's breakfast we have now.

 

[siv]

I still think that the Panthers should be looking to enter the SW area...

With all of the transport links being built for the new airport, movement from SW to game in Penrith (or visa versa) would be a lot easier

The club that has the logical extension into Campbelltown is Canterbury. They have had a number of attempts to setup a stadium around Liverpool in the past. Not just OASIS

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

I think it is highly unlikely that the club will ever commit fulltime to the Campbelltown area. Wests Campbelltown have no ownership of the club with the club now being 90% owned by Wests Ashfield.

Any thoughts on why the Campbelltown ground can’t see to draw well.

I would have expected the people out there to get right behind their team

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

It comes down to geography. It it was always neighboring clubs merging, it would have made more geographical sense & given merged teams more focus... but the problem is that often neighboring teams are the deadliest of rivals BECAUSE of their proximity (Sharks/Dragons, Bears/Sea Eagles, Rabbitohs/Roosters.. heck even Bulldogs/Eels.)

The whole rationalization/mergers at the turn of the century needed greater NRL oversight, but they just left it all to the clubs.. and the clubs delivered the dog's breakfast we have now.

No sure I agree with that. Murdoch was calling the shots and the game shafted itself to appease him

The tigers & maggies only merged due to Murdoch wanting the shaft Souths. It was corrupt what he did

 

[unforgiven]

Any thoughts on why the Campbelltown ground can’t see to draw well.

I would have expected the people out there to get right behind their team

I personally think it has to do with how new the area is! Most people already have a team that they follow, Penrith to a smaller extent have a similar problem. The MacArthur region never really embraced the Magpies either which is why they ended in the position they ended in.

Now there will probably be some old Magpies supporters who disagree with this and claim it is because of the way the Wests Tigers treat the area but I believe they are looking at the situation through Black and White glasses.

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

I’m probably one of those blind Magpies

 

[unforgiven]

I’m probably one of those blind Magpies

I would be happy to hear your thought on the situation!

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

I think the merger being dominated by the Tigers, early days wasn’t a good fit for the area. Personally I don’t like the merger even now, all these years later

 

[unforgiven]

I think the merger being dominated by the Tigers, early days wasn’t a good fit for the area. Personally I don’t like the merger even now, all these years later

I think that was always more of a perception thing than reality and the data certainly does not support that notion that that impacted crowds and support in the MacArthur region. I honestly do not believe that Balmain ever dominated and the merger. I love the merger and would not go back to what we had before, even now that the club is completely under the control of Wests!

 

[siv]

Area has been a weird one

They ran as a stand alone junior district for many years and played bottle green

Then Newtown tried to relocate before going bust

Then after Wests were kicked out also in 84 one co edition back was for them play out of Orana

But SL war ended of good will then the die or merge mentality meant the club moved back to a Ashfield-Leichhardt based entity

Not sure if winning in 2005 helped the MacArthur region as it seemed to enforce the Tigers brand more. While MacArthur area was left with the Magpies brand slowly dying until reggies was rebranded as Wests-tigers

And recently we had the death of the Wests juniors admin in the area

 

[flippikat]

No sure I agree with that. Murdoch was calling the shots and the game shafted itself to appease him

The tigers & maggies only merged due to Murdoch wanting the shaft Souths. It was corrupt what he did

Even if Murdoch was calling all the shots in the "peace settlement" era, the NRL surely still had the ultimate approval over what merged teams were acceptable, and what home grounds were acceptable.

If the NRL turned down the proposed Wests / Balmain merger, then they would either have to find other merger partners, or relocate, or drop to NSW cup.. unless they found wealthy benefactors that would keep them afloat as stand-alone clubs.

If the NRL said yes, on the condition that they play from ONE home ground if they merged... then that's the deal - take it or leave it. And if they don't take it, it's the same scenario as above (NRL turns down the merger).

Again, the NRL didn't consider geography.. didn't consider the split of home games (and the fragmentation that results from it).. and set the merged team up for an indentity crisis.

To a certain degree, that's also the case with the Dragons (are they a Sydney club or a Woollongong/Illawarra club? Well both.. and neither...)

Even though one side of the merger dominates in both cases (and thank goodness it's not an ongoing arm-wrestle like the Northern Eagles was), there's still major identity issues with both joint ventures.

IMO the only way to fix this is to move the Dragons to the 'Gong (training, admin, home games) & Tigers to Bankwest or Campbelltown full time.

 

[unforgiven]

hile MacArthur area was left with the Magpies brand slowly dying until reggies was rebranded as Wests-tigers

CC team is now named Wests Magpies

 

[Reflector]

Problem for the Wests Tigers is the team barely plays in either merger partners' spiritual heartland anymore.

Lidcombe Oval and Pratten Park were outdated even for mid 80's standards, and while Leichardt is a pilgrimage every RL fan should make at least once, that whole inner-west area (counting everything east of Olympic Park) isn't the blue collar area it was for most of the Tigers and Magpies standalone history.

So what you're left with is a club with a geographically scattered supporter base who play most of their games in Eels heartland, with a few other games split between Campbelltown (which I gather was always fairly indifferent to Wests) and Leichardt (where the local residents are more likely to be interested in a film festival or art exhibition than going to the footy)

 

[siv]

CC team is now named Wests Magpies

Yes it reverted back

Idenity continues to be ongoing concern for them more than location

Young fans who know nothing of Balmain or old Wests assocuate themselves as Leichhardt based Tigers fans after 2005