Do Penrith need Jarome?

[Fangs]

They do?

Yes we went through this last year as well.

There isn't a stand out team. But in a way it's exciting. Competition is wide open.

 

[flippikat]

Yes we went through this last year as well.

There isn't a stand out team. But in a way it's exciting. Competition is wide open.

With the Roosterslooking like their premiership window is closed & Penrith possibly having that post-dynasty come-down, the only thing in the way of a truly "wide open" competition is the Storm.

It could be a really fun era coming up over the next few years if that pans-out.

Come on Bellamy, either retire or go sign to coach a struggling club as one last challenge..

 

[Fangs]

It's still very early days, and the table IS pretty congested, so there's gonna be some big - and effectively 4-point - games for the Storm in the next few weeks (you know, where denying the other team 2 competition points is as important as getting the 2 for themselves - like the Warriors game this weekend)

The Storm have a knack of winning. Even if their performance is a bit crap.. they still find a way to be ahead at full time. That gets them to a decent table position for the playoffs, then they go up a gear.

Bringing this back on topic, that's something the Panthers have lacked this year SO FAR - performing pretty average but still finding the win somehow.

Very early days. On another topic I think we are about to reach the end of Origin mid-year. Not saying Origin will die but clubs and fans are sick of it ruining the competition. It urgently needs a change.

Panthers are just nowhere. And that is great for the NRL. It's time for some other clubs to stand up. Just waiting to see who will.

 

[Fangs]

With the Roosterslooking like their premiership window is closed & Penrith possibly having that post-dynasty come-down, the only thing in the way of a truly "wide open" competition is the Storm.

It could be a really fun era coming up over the next few years if that pans-out.

Come on Bellamy, either retire or go sign to coach a struggling club as one last challenge..

Yeah Bellamy can piss off. He should be doing rep coaching.

 

[MKCS]

Not a Panthers fan but I think I would've kept Luai and Cleary together for as long as possible. Edwards is a great player but if someone had to go from the spine it would've been him as great halves are much harder to come across and Mitch Kenny wouldn't be on a massive wage.

Laurie, Luai, Cleary and Kenny is still a premiership winning spine. Edwards, Cole, Cleary and Kenny? Not so much.

 

[flippikat]

Very early days. On another topic I think we are about to reach the end of Origin mid-year. Not saying Origin will die but clubs and fans are sick of it ruining the competition. It urgently needs a change.

Panthers are just nowhere. And that is great for the NRL. It's time for some other clubs to stand up. Just waiting to see who will.

Absolutely agree on Origin having it's own window - not sure if the end of season is the answer because that's typically been the spot for tests.

Most likely, we'll see a dedicated rep window mid-year with the premiership on pause (no more split rounds!)


As far As who stands up in the "power vacuum" left by the Panthers, well the Storm are frustratingly always there-abouts, but the Bulldogs have been building well & are due for a good spell given that club has been putting in regular decent eras since the '80s.

The Broncos are interesting.. they based a lot of their 1990s success on Newscorp connections & being the club of choice in Queensland AND commercial advantages over suburban Sydney clubs - but the landscape has changed and they can't use that as a springboard any more.

 

[Chins]

Not a Panthers fan but I think I would've kept Luai and Cleary together for as long as possible. Edwards is a great player but if someone had to go from the spine it would've been him as great halves are much harder to come across and Mitch Kenny wouldn't be on a massive wage.

Laurie, Luai, Cleary and Kenny is still a premiership winning spine. Edwards, Cole, Cleary and Kenny? Not so much.

Yeo is more important than our 6. We have a different setup

 

[Apey]

Not sure it was losing Luai specifically so much. I reckon the club put a lot of mental and emotional energy into seeing off Luai and JFH as winners last year, and then this year they just dont have the drive so far. It all seems very mental. They're scoring more points than they have previous years but can't defend for shit.

 

[Munky]

Not sure it was losing Luai specifically so much. I reckon the club put a lot of mental and emotional energy into seeing off Luai and JFH as winners last year, and then this year they just dont have the drive so far. It all seems very mental. They're scoring more points than they have previous years but can't defend for shit.

I agree with this.

Last year felt like a bonus premiership.

Leota, Martin and JFH were incredibly ordinary all regular season, except in games against the eventual top four

The team only turned up four times all year. Against the Sharks to prove they're still pretenders in the regular season and then to steamroll through the finals with ease.

To put it into perspective, average points scored by the rest of the top four including all regular season games and finals not playing Penrith (26 games each). Each team was top for in attack during the regular season.

Storm: 29.88
Roosters: 30.62
Sharks: 26.50

Against Penrith when it mattered in the finals:

Storm: 6
Roosters: 10
Sharks: 6

A combined 22 points. In 240 minutes the best attacking sides in the league could barely average over a try a game.

An unreal performance really and it's showing this year that it can't be maintained week in week out especially with replacement players many tiers below last years starters.

 

[dogslife]

Not sure it was losing Luai specifically so much. I reckon the club put a lot of mental and emotional energy into seeing off Luai and JFH as winners last year, and then this year they just dont have the drive so far. It all seems very mental. They're scoring more points than they have previous years but can't defend for shit.

Cameron Ciraldo was the mastermind behind the dynasty.

You heard it here first.

 

[flippikat]

Not sure it was losing Luai specifically so much. I reckon the club put a lot of mental and emotional energy into seeing off Luai and JFH as winners last year, and then this year they just dont have the drive so far. It all seems very mental. They're scoring more points than they have previous years but can't defend for shit

Yeah, defence has been a real shock this year.

We know they can score tries - and there's still plenty of talent to execute on attack, but it means nothing if the resolve to put in the hard work on D has gone... and that's a sure sign that they aren't mentally "all in" for another title.

I get it though - they've done something that many thought impossible in the modern era by winning four premierships back-to-back.. and when you've established your dynasty as the best since the 1956-66 Dragons, what else is there to prove? 4 is tough, no way could they beat 11.. so that's got to loosen things a bit. They've gone one better than the early '80s Eels.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

I wouldn't say 100% because if a top coach had been interested I don't know if they still would have gone that way, but it's definitely the reason they went for Ivan over another equally middle of the road (at the time) coach.

It surprises me that's even controversial? Like, they had faith in N Cleary and the players they had at the time, they signed a coach they knew would keep the lynchpin of that bunch at the club. That's just good management

That’s not controversial at all. It was definitely a factor. But the guy has taken on a side with some serious flaws but potential, and made that team into the most dominant team in x years at the same time helping a few pretty limited players (historically) become fixtures in representative sides.

The hysteria comes from the fans who suggest we would have given the job to Mr Squiggle if that had of been Nathan’s preference and we still would have been just as successful.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Yeah, defence has been a real shock this year.

We know they can score tries - and there's still plenty of talent to execute on attack, but it means nothing if the resolve to put in the hard work on D has gone... and that's a sure sign that they aren't mentally "all in" for another title.

I get it though - they've done something that many thought impossible in the modern era by winning four premierships back-to-back.. and when you've established your dynasty as the best since the 1956-66 Dragons, what else is there to prove? 4 is tough, no way could they beat 11.. so that's got to loosen things a bit. They've gone one better than the early '80s Eels.

I agree, it’s a big part energy attitude. Looking at the results we did well in Vegas against a top four team and have lost narrowly to the competition favourites on their own patch. Some putrid discussion displays agains the Roosters and Souths (particularly in the first halves, which is itself telling). They look sluggish. Not sure how you fix that in April; it’s all well and good to think the team can rouse in September (which I think they can) but you need to be within striking distance so got to start building PDQ.

I think the other element is disorganisation.

 

[flippikat]

I agree, it’s a big part energy attitude. Looking at the results we did well in Vegas against a top four team and have lost narrowly to the competition favourites on their own patch. Some putrid discussion displays agains the Roosters and Souths (particularly in the first halves, which is itself telling). They look sluggish. Not sure how you fix that in April; it’s all well and good to think the team can rouse in September (which I think they can) but you need to be within striking distance so got to start building PDQ.

I think the other element is disorganisation.

Spot on. As a Warriors fan, I can attest that you don't wanna be chasing the 8 from it's fringes in July/August.

The desperation infects the fans, the club AND the players.. and the result ain't pretty.

 

[Canard]

Luai was the CEO, Chief Energy Officer. We look flat as f**k this year, so yeah, we miss him.

He is a chirpy f**ker so with Dylan out and not organising the defense, missing Luai could be playing a role there too, especially on that edge. He was also very underrated as defender in his own right as well, so there is that. Cole tackles fine, but he isn't at Luai's level.

For me that's To'o.

He is as big a loss as JFH. He just brings the energy in his kick returns like no other back 3 player in the NRL.

Time and time again, when the Panthers are under pressure coming out of their end, he makes big yards.

Im amazed at how little love he is getting in this forum.

 

[Black Panther]

Cameron Ciraldo was the mastermind behind the dynasty.

You heard it here first.

Yeah mate, how long ago did he leave? How many GF’s have we won without him being there. You don’t think maggot clubs like the Dogs have got the if you can’t beat em buy em attitude.

But ok, he’s the true mastermind.

 

[yobbo84]

Luai was the CEO, Chief Energy Officer. We look flat as f**k this year, so yeah, we miss him.

He is a chirpy f**ker so with Dylan out and not organising the defense, missing Luai could be playing a role there too, especially on that edge. He was also very underrated as defender in his own right as well, so there is that. Cole tackles fine, but he isn't at Luai's level.

Thats the price of success though. As a fan you just have to be satisfied that we were going to come back to the pack eventually. I'd be interested to hear from fans of other clubs how they coped when their team regressed after winning 4 straight. Might be waiting a while unless there are any geriatric Dragons fans here that still have the cognitive ability to construct a response.

After making 5 straight GFs and winning 4 premierships, we then went on to not with another premiership for 43 years, including a period of going broke and getting kicked out of the competition. So there's that...

 

[nick87]

We're at a point now where the Panthers might be in a Theseus's Paradox. They've had to replace so many of the pieces now that made them what they were, and i think the JFH and Luai departures were the exact worst ones they couldn't overcome, in very interesting ways.

JFH because of what he meant to their forward pack, their defence from which this dynasty was built on, particularly line speed, and from all reports, the type of leader he was Monday-Friday on the training paddock. That's really hard to replace, as a player and as a presence

And Luai because not just the very obvious, that it makes them completely dependent on Cleary to such an extent that when he doesnt play they will struggle to win, but also i think Luai brought a level of confidence and attitude to that team. Arrogance as some might label it.

And those two played off each other.
JFH brought the work ethic, grounded them and reminded everyone that they're the toughest team in the comp.
Luai brought the confidence, and lifted them up and reminded everyone that they're the **** panthers and no one is on their level.

I think losing both at the same time has really impacted the Panthers in a way that is going to be hard to overcome.
And when i say that, it's on a curve. They're still a very, very good team who is going to be playing finals footy and competing to win a title. But they no longer have that "unbeatable" feel and aura about them

 

[dogslife]

We're at a point now where the Panthers might be in a Theseus's Paradox. They've had to replace so many of the pieces now that made them what they were, and i think the JFH and Luai departures were the exact worst ones they couldn't overcome, in very interesting ways.

JFH because of what he meant to their forward pack, their defence from which this dynasty was built on, particularly line speed, and from all reports, the type of leader he was Monday-Friday on the training paddock. That's really hard to replace, as a player and as a presence

And Luai because not just the very obvious, that it makes them completely dependent on Cleary to such an extent that when he doesnt play they will struggle to win, but also i think Luai brought a level of confidence and attitude to that team. Arrogance as some might label it.

And those two played off each other.
JFH brought the work ethic, grounded them and reminded everyone that they're the toughest team in the comp.
Luai brought the confidence, and lifted them up and reminded everyone that they're the **** panthers and no one is on their level.

I think losing both at the same time has really impacted the Panthers in a way that is going to be hard to overcome.
And when i say that, it's on a curve. They're still a very, very good team who is going to be playing finals footy and competing to win a title. But they no longer have that "unbeatable" feel and aura about them

No one quite embodies the spirit of Penrith like the Eshay king. Losing him was like losing part if their identity.

The fact they're playing their home games in Parramatta probably doesn't help either. They're just your average Western Sydney team now. And the rest of Western Sydney rejoices for it. I bet the fertility rates in Penrith have even dropped as a result.

 

[Estoniandogg]

The thought struck me recently - are we actually NOW in a transition away from the Panthers era - and in fact the Panthers/Storm/Roosters era we've had since 2017 - and going into a "power vacuum" where we could see the premiership change hands a few times until a new dynasty emerges?

y u include storms in that?