Do we actually need a Mongrel Prop?

[Twenty10]

Absolutely we do. We need size and intimidation. Problem is there ain't man on market... I liked the idea of FPN from roosters, but we missed him. Not really sure who else is around

 

[BennyV]

The forward pack you name is the same that we have this year except for Thomson. They are not winning us games and have the most metres gained by opposition teams against them. They are soft up the middle, error prone and switch off at vital stages of a game...and yet you seem to think they have all the skills required for next year. Very strange...unless we get a couple of more tough forwards we will still be languishing with the also rans..

And 1 mongrel prop is going to fix it? How many 'mongrel intimidating props' are disciplined and safe in terms of errors and penalties? Our forwards arent the problem this year, its our halves and our coach. A decent defensive coach that will give us structure and enforce the idea of line speed (like Fitzgibbon has done with Roosters) is necessary. A forwards coach that will make sure the guys do their job is necessary. I dont think that 1 'mongrel prop' is necessary (although would be nice).

Our forwards this year are the reason we are getting into attacking position. Our halves and gameplan are the reason we continue to fail to convert into points.

 

[BennyV]

This is the point of my thread, where are Prior & Hunt going to play? We have a really strong squad now, if they recruit 1 more and dont boot anybody, theres just not enough bench spots for them all (Note the other thread on prior looking @ parra too).

Yep Stockwell & JDB give us hope.. first blokes since Merrin to look like theyre gonna make & stay in 1st grade. I wouldnt mind 1 'experienced' bloke, say like a Willie Mason (or whoever) to take them under his wing though, but we would have to make room for him in our squad.

This is a good point Rev - people bung on and on about our need for a 'big mongrel prop' with no consideration as to where he will fit into our squad:
-Creagh is out captain, leader, most solid defender (IMO) and one of our best forwards (always gets quick plays, decent metres, etc)
-Merrin is one of the form forwards of the competition
-Harrison (and next year, Thompson) are the only guys in our team with proven ability to run angles and hit holes
-JDB, Stockwell and Friz (and possibly Vidot?) are very solid players and more importantly, they are the future of our forward pack, and should be given priority in terms of development and investment. Would absolutely hate to lose them and see them hit the peak of their careers with another club
-Prior (if he stays) is a workhorse, metre-eater, solid defender and has been a victim of his own versatility and work ethic
-Hunt (can GTFO to be honest, but he wont be released) and Cooper (more-than-likely) are reserve grade forwards who should be used for injury backup.

So where in our starting forward pack do we fit this saviour of the pigs, this 'big mongrel prop' who will deliver us a premiership?! Barring injuries, at least one of our forwards will suffer. (more than likely two if Price is coach, since Hunt will be a starter )

 

[TheRev]

Twinketoes, I think our forward pack actually is winning the battle up front already.. they are giving us all the field position we need, our halves/coach whatever you want to blame, cannot then convert it into points.

The key differences between the Start of 2013 & Start of 2014:
- Thompson - Is an Intimidator (see what he did to us last week!)
- Creagh to Prop, Big+
- JDB & Stockwell have come on, and next year 'should' start to dominate
- Merrin has cemented himself as a senior & rep player
- Vidot is a darkhorse for a bench 2nd rower who can intimidate

I really like our pack.. I mean not compared to 3xBurgess or SBW etc.. but its very decent, if we have bucketloads of cash left in the cap then it needs to go to 1 more strike/marquee player.. if its a forward it will come at the expense of Prior & a couple of others.

 

[Mr Red]

We always love quality signings.. but do we even have room?

Props: Creagh | JDB | Prior | Stockwell | Merrin
2nd Rowers: Thompson | Frizzell | Harrison
Hookers: Can ignore these, obviously we have 4 very good ones

Every player above I think makes our Top 17 squad.. and thats not including guys like Hunt, Vidot, M.Cooper, Ah Mau, Vea, Matthews..

In a finals game against classy packs like Souths/Roosters/Cowboys/Raiders id say yeah maybe one absolute quality forward (genuine class, probably 2nd row tbh) would be fantastic, but.. only if we intend to give the boot to a couple of our blokes at end of 2013, because there are a lot of blokes who will be playing in the cutters if we dont (Hunt one of them).

your thread is asking do we need a "mongrel" prop.. and then you go on to list Creagh | JDB | Prior | Stockwell | Merrin as our prop options...

i think you have answered your own question... yes we do. JDB has some aggression but the rest although good players arent really that intimidating at all... 1

 

[BennyV]

your thread is asking do we need a "mongrel" prop.. and then you go on to list Creagh | JDB | Prior | Stockwell | Merrin as our prop options...

i think you have answered your own question... yes we do. JDB has some aggression but the rest although good players arent really that intimidating at all... 1

Why do they need to be? Melbournes forward pack is hardly intimidating, moreorless an 'above average' pack and they won the comp last year against Kasiano, Pritchard, Graham, Eastwood and so on.

The year before Manly had Kite and King in their front row and outside of T-Rex, n other 'intimidation' in their pack; just skill and work. Premiership.

While an extra bit of punch would be nice to have, why the necessity for intimidation and so on? Who cares if other teams are 'scared' to face us, as long as we can get the points.

Yep, the best intimidation is talent and hard work.

 

[TheRev]

your thread is asking do we need a "mongrel" prop.. and then you go on to list Creagh | JDB | Prior | Stockwell | Merrin as our prop options...

i think you have answered your own question... yes we do. JDB has some aggression but the rest although good players arent really that intimidating at all... 1

If we dont sign anyone else.. I think the 'intimidation' will come from the 2nd row in Thompson & Vidot, and I guess Merrin is getting there too.

 

[Elias1983]

your thread is asking do we need a "mongrel" prop.. and then you go on to list Creagh | JDB | Prior | Stockwell | Merrin as our prop options...

i think you have answered your own question... yes we do. JDB has some aggression but the rest although good players arent really that intimidating at all... 1

JDB has aggression?.....I used to think that until I found out he loves justin bieber on the footy show last night!!

Get rid of him....

I agree with benny's points, Our forwards have been holding their own this year but as has been mentioned ad nauseam our halves have let us down, Fien has tried his guts out but simply is past it.

I don't think we need a mongrel prop (although wouldn't say no to matulino) but one reason we have a percieved lack of aggression is because of how easily teams are getting us up the middle....making far too many metres.

I think this can improve with the current crop of forwards we have, it's a coaching/team structure problem. It's definately a problem that can be fixed with the correct coaching.....

Under Brown we had Bailey, ryles and co, one of the best forwards packs in the game and what was the first thing Bennett said to the players when he arrived? That we had a soft underbelly.....obviously bailey and ryles had moved on by then but my point is you can have the best forwards in the game but if the coaching is stuffed it will reflect through the players.

 

[Mr Red]

Why do they need to be? Melbournes forward pack is hardly intimidating, moreorless an 'above average' pack and they won the comp last year against Kasiano, Pritchard, Graham, Eastwood and so on.

The year before Manly had Kite and King in their front row and outside of T-Rex, n other 'intimidation' in their pack; just skill and work. Premiership.

While an extra bit of punch would be nice to have, why the necessity for intimidation and so on? Who cares if other teams are 'scared' to face us, as long as we can get the points.

thats the point though.. we dont have Slater, Cronk, Smith ..... therefore IMO having more intimidation/aggression in the forwards is a key to beating them... aka Benett knowing he didnt have the star power in the halves in 2010 but through guys like Saffy, Costigan, Smith, Scott etc i believe the intimdation factor and intensity they play the game with made up for the lack of sheer talent like the storm currently have..
Melbourne storm also used this same principal in 1999, they lacked talent in some areas, but through the aggression of guys like Nikau, Roarty, Kearney etc... won the comp.

 

[twinkletoes]

Against the Raiders last week 2 tries were scored where the opposition strolled through the middle of our forward pack...and this is happening consistently where we lose games. I can't understand how most seem happy with our forward pack as it is with the addition of Thompson.

 

[BennyV]

Against the Raiders last week 2 tries were scored where the opposition strolled through the middle of our forward pack...and this is happening consistently where we lose games. I can't understand how most seem happy with our forward pack as it is with the addition of Thompson.

That's a coaching and structure issue, not a cattle issue (although Creagh in the middle would make a difference...)

I know I keep referring to the Roosters, but the look at them last year compared to this year: 1 new centre (our backline is being revitalised), 1 new 5/8 (we have completely new halves), 1 new backrower (Thompson is no SBW but he will add strike to our edge), but the main difference is their attitude and structure, particularly in defense...that comes from the coaching staff, and Robinson/Fitzgibbon have done brilliantly when it comes to their defense.

 

[Minh]

yeah I agree. It's one of the reasons that make Steve Price come across as a weak Coach. Like you, i don't rate Dan Hunt, (could be regarded as one who has benefited from the PASP), but I do rate Matt Prior. He's a damaging Forward - he's like a hammer or some other blunt object, totally wasted in that silly utility role.

individually, except for DH I wouldn't swap any, but as a pack, i have to agree with GoMarchin' ...they intimidate no one. i Don't know any answers to that one tho. :?

Haha PASP sounds very technical. It's true though our pack although some very good individuals do not intimidate working as a pack. I think we are short a player like Fafita, because if we had a player like him our pack would suddenly be great so long as we have the guts to cut players like Dan Hunt.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

If we can get this freak of nature then yep mongrel matters as.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QliqHRWZPMU

 

[BennyV]

If we can get this freak of nature then yep mongrel matters as.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QliqHRWZPMU

Lol did see that a hew hours ago - if it means bringing him over, then my view is that we definitely 'need' some mongrel!

 

[TheRev]

Id love to import someone (even if he has a ponytail)! Honestly Doust has said all year that we werent done with recruitment for 2014 and if we have cap space, we would be crazy not to pick up someone..

But.. I also feel like the situation has shifted dramatically since we last heard from Doust, I wont repeat the points in this thread again, but I feel our forward pack has really come on since earlier in the year and its not the dire situation we were previously in.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

The good news is we are clearing the decks which says to me feed me more to come. Bring on 2014

 

[jenninga]

Twinketoes, I think our forward pack actually is winning the battle up front already.. they are giving us all the field position we need, our halves/coach whatever you want to blame, cannot then convert it into points.

The key differences between the Start of 2013 & Start of 2014:
- Thompson - Is an Intimidator (see what he did to us last week!)
- Creagh to Prop, Big+
- JDB & Stockwell have come on, and next year 'should' start to dominate
- Merrin has cemented himself as a senior & rep player
- Vidot is a darkhorse for a bench 2nd rower who can intimidate

I really like our pack.. I mean not compared to 3xBurgess or SBW etc.. but its very decent, if we have bucketloads of cash left in the cap then it needs to go to 1 more strike/marquee player.. if its a forward it will come at the expense of Prior & a couple of others.

It's the impact a Burgess or a mongrel prop when coming back into the game which is why it would be good to have one ala Weyman.The team lifts and so does the crowd and intensity.We got the best out of Weyman and would be good to find a replacement.
Our pack otherwise will be better next year.

 

[saint06]

I don't get all the Creagh love. Reckon he has been ordinary for a few years, and I reckon he will be ordinary next year, when he moves into the front row. He doesn't hit in defence like he used to, he doesn't bend the line like he used to, he doesn't offload like he used to, he doesn't play anywhere near the Ben Creagh of a few years ago.

We need 2 more props with some starch and "mongrel" in them. Otherwise, we'll struggle upfront again next year, with all the work to be done by Merrin.

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

I don't get all the Creagh love. Reckon he has been ordinary for a few years, and I reckon he will be ordinary next year, when he moves into the front row. He doesn't hit in defence like he used to, he doesn't bend the line like he used to, he doesn't offload like he used to, he doesn't play anywhere near the Ben Creagh of a few years ago.

We need 2 more props with some starch and "mongrel" in them. Otherwise, we'll struggle upfront again next year, with all the work to be done by Merrin.

...it's because Ben Creagh has a really big head. I mean look at it ...it's huge! How often does he use it to crash though a tackle and the rest of his body follows, first his shoulders and then his arms, with the ball over the tryline and occassionally an off-load too.

And thers's no-way that the year settling in as a captain can be allowed to go to waste. It is one important component of the "re-building" year and augers well for 2014. Watching him develop in that role through the course of this year makes me appreciate just how difficult it is to be a good captain.

Ben Creagh man-love.

 

[Kuro]

Even if we don't get mongrel prop, JDB and Stockwell both now have solid first grade experience and with another pre-season under their belts, could really add some punch (and more dynamic) to our forward pack next season.
The good thing about both is, I don't deny either of their commitment in pushing to get there!