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Do we keep Sandow?

eels_fan

eels_fan

First Grade
Messages
7,623
So if its after a win, yes. If after a loss, maybe. A bad loss, no.

It's hard to judge as I think Sandow will be an infinitely better player with Foran in the team, ditto Norman.

If really consider not re-signing Hoppa (unless he wants to stay for $300k) and find a way to incorporate Foran, Norman & Sandow into the team.
 
L

lafai

Bench
Messages
2,810
No team makes the finals with Sandow in there team. Therefore Norman to fullback and Sandow at 7 is what you guys will do unless Cronulla, Manly or Gold Coast want to make an offer to him.
 
J

junior fan

Juniors
Messages
174
lafai said:
No team makes the finals with Sandow in there team. Therefore Norman to fullback and Sandow at 7 is what you guys will do unless Cronulla, Manly or Gold Coast want to make an offer to him.
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Unfortunately I agree. You can't afford to be rocks and diamonds and have legitimate aspirations to make the 8 let alone win a comp. Consistency wins comps. The Dogs can make the GF around a limited half in Hodko who controls and organises the game well and plays a structured game plan behind a big and aggressive pack. As can Reynolds and Keary for Souths. Manly did for a number of years behind a bigger aggressive pack but are being shown up this year with it so depleted. I couldn't see anything that represented a game plan yesterday. I'm sure BA had one but it wasn't executed. Sandow will never be the half that executes the plan. He is ad-lib I'm sure his team mates don't know what is coming from him and sometimes it seems neither does he. Some weeks it will work, like against the bunnies and he will poll great Dally M points because of it, many weeks it won't and we will look like a rabble, like yesterday. I know there will be excuses like injuries, all teams have them, I'm not looking at the result I'm looking at his ability to organise and follow a plan. Unfortunately as I said he isn't the one to do that.
 
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oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
11,978
eels_fan said:
So if its after a win, yes. If after a loss, maybe. A bad loss, no.

It's hard to judge as I think Sandow will be an infinitely better player with Foran in the team, ditto Norman.

If really consider not re-signing Hoppa (unless he wants to stay for $300k) and find a way to incorporate Foran, Norman & Sandow into the team.
Click to expand...

The thing is that Sandow is sometimes a pendulum for the wins or losses. If he plays well, things can click, and we can win. If he plays poorly, he can be really bad, and singlehandedly deliver a loss.

Is he the kind of guy who can deliver more wins than losses in a year? So far in his career, he hasn't played finals footy. Half the teams get in. He has played almost 150 FG games, and seems to be the same product he was in his earliest days - an extreme talent who has wildly good, and wildly poor games. More consistent than a Ben Roberts type, but a woefully poor defender.

This is my first post in the thread, I would definitely NOT keep Sandow. Too up and down, and will never be a good enough defender to be part of a "grind 'em out" defensive side.

The best defensive teams tend to win the premiership.
 
Chipmunk

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,424
oldmancraigy said:
The thing is that Sandow is sometimes a pendulum for the wins or losses. If he plays well, things can click, and we can win. If he plays poorly, he can be really bad, and singlehandedly deliver a loss.

Is he the kind of guy who can deliver more wins than losses in a year? So far in his career, he hasn't played finals footy. Half the teams get in. He has played almost 150 FG games, and seems to be the same product he was in his earliest days - an extreme talent who has wildly good, and wildly poor games. More consistent than a Ben Roberts type, but a woefully poor defender.

This is my first post in the thread, I would definitely NOT keep Sandow. Too up and down, and will never be a good enough defender to be part of a "grind 'em out" defensive side.

The best defensive teams tend to win the premiership.
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I agree with all your thoughts, but I must admit Sandow's tackling ability is better this year than it has been.
 
Chipmunk

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,424
eels_fan said:
So if its after a win, yes. If after a loss, maybe. A bad loss, no.

It's hard to judge as I think Sandow will be an infinitely better player with Foran in the team, ditto Norman.

If really consider not re-signing Hoppa (unless he wants to stay for $300k) and find a way to incorporate Foran, Norman & Sandow into the team.
Click to expand...

I'm not fussed if we let both Sandow and Hopoate go and found someone else to play 1.
 
Poupou Escobar

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,391
Chipmunk said:
I agree with all your thoughts, but I must admit Sandow's tackling ability is better this year than it has been.
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No it isn't. He's just been on the back foot far less often. He did miss seven tackles yesterday.

Sandow's up-and-down form is proof that he is heavily dependent on his forwards. Behind a dominant pack he is a slightly subpar defender and one of the best attacking players in the NRL. Behind a beaten pack he either disappears or he takes massive risks. Plus he is the game's worst defender.

Someone like Foran will never dominate the way Sandow can, but conversely Foran is less dependent on his forwards winning the wrestle. When on the back foot he can just put his head down and run and tackle like another forward himself. Because no team consistently wins the ruck (the usual condition is parity) Foran will outplay Sandow the majority of the time. The only time you'd prefer Sandow is when your forwards dominate, and you can't count on that happening every week.
 
Haynzy

Haynzy

First Grade
Messages
8,613
I think Sandow is worth keeping.

His unpredictability is what makes him valuable.
I don't know what was going on with Peats, his service to Sandow was pretty ordinary.
It's been said here a million times, when our forwards dominate and he gets good service Sandow kills it when they don't he struggles.
 
Chipmunk

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,424
Poupou Escobar said:
No it isn't. He's just been on the back foot far less often. He did miss seven tackles yesterday.

Sandow's up-and-down form is proof that he is heavily dependent on his forwards. Behind a dominant pack he is a slightly subpar defender and one of the best attacking players in the NRL. Behind a beaten pack he either disappears or he takes massive risks. Plus he is the game's worst defender.

Someone like Foran will never dominate the way Sandow can, but conversely Foran is less dependent on his forwards winning the wrestle. When on the back foot he can just put his head down and run and tackle like another forward himself. Because no team consistently wins the ruck (the usual condition is parity) Foran will outplay Sandow the majority of the time. The only time you'd prefer Sandow is when your forwards dominate, and you can't count on that happening every week.
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I didn't say his defence had improved and I wasn't insuiating that he was a good defender. I think he is the biggest liability in the NRL today.

Perhaps I should have said his "tackling technique" had improved. In previous years, since the abolition of the shoulder charge, he has just flung out an arm and watched them run past him, this year he is at least getting his body in a better position to make tackles.
 
O

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
11,978
Chipmunk said:
I didn't say his defence had improved and I wasn't insuiating that he was a good defender. I think he is the biggest liability in the NRL today.

Perhaps I should have said his "tackling technique" had improved. In previous years, since the abolition of the shoulder charge, he has just flung out an arm and watched them run past him, this year he is at least getting his body in a better position to make tackles.
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Watch as the season wears on, i tip he becomes less committed and starts throwing an arm.

it is a tough one, because spark in attack is a rare trait.
 
eel01s

eel01s

Bench
Messages
3,410
Anyone else think that Peats' form has been down on what he showed last season? As we know, the dummy half role is critical. I just think he looks a little off the pace this year.
 
Swiftstylez

Swiftstylez

Bench
Messages
2,858
oldmancraigy said:
Yeah, but going the 1m blindside on the 5th and kicking it out on the full maybe wasn't the play....
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And if he scores everyone gets out their johnson, starts beating off and logs onto this thread and proclaims he is irreplaceable.

TL;DR: It's only round 5.
 
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O

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
11,978
Swiftstylez said:
And if he scores everyone gets out their johnson, starts beating off and logs onto this thread and proclaims he is irreplaceable.

TL;DR: It's only round 5.
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But that's why we shouldn't keep him.
It isn't just round 5. It is round 5 in the 4th year of his contract. We paid the big bucks for him at the time, halfback is supposed to be scrutinised, because they 'control' the team on the paddock.

So far this year we've already had him say 'my head wasn't there' for a game - how many more times do you want to hear the excuse?

tl;dr - unless we win the comp he's done.
 
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