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Dragons Squad June 30 Deadline

Messages
3,950
Remember when the JV started and we were told that it would be a superclub? The promise was that with the strength of the Illawarra juniors and the elite club management of St George we would win a bunch of premierships.

The juniors have continued to flow. So Illawarra have lived up to their side of the bargain.

Our management is dogshit.

Just saying*

*i was reminded of this fact recently by a mate. If you want credit, let me know and I’m more than happy to oblige.

Yes the Illawarra have much better administrators like O’Connor, and the Gordon family.

Who is the chairman of the board again?

It appears that the pot is calling the kettle black.

The coach is?

The Pathways Director is?

Please note, I am not saying the St. George directors are any better.

I would just like you to acknowledge the blame for this mess should be equally shared.
 
Messages
3,950
Exactly.. It’s rather amusing to watch the old guard still having tantrums, even after 20 years..

They say they want to get rid of the south coast connection, yet what they don’t realise is that without it, the Dragons would have folded..

On present projections, it may we’ll have been a better alternative
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,855
Yes the Illawarra have much better administrators like O’Connor, and the Gordon family.

Who is the chairman of the board again?

It appears that the pot is calling the kettle black.

The coach is?

The Pathways Director is?

Please note, I am not saying the St. George directors are any better.

I would just like you to acknowledge the blame for this mess should be equally shared.
Sure. I think the management is poor on both sides.

But I think you’ve misunderstood me. What I’m saying is that what was promised from the Illawarra side of the JV is being delivered. Where is the professional administration that St George was supposed to bring to the table?
 
Messages
2,866
MTD,
There in lies the problem.
A family owned business rather than a group of people running a business as a business.
I've experience first hand, a family run national company with 22 branches Australia wide for which l was a branch manager.
The owner was like a Hitlar and everybody frighten of the person and unable to grow the business from their angle and or from a combined thought process.
Why.......... cause he was a control freak, ruthless as f**k and an assole of a human being.

He was successful but an absolute barsteward to work for. I'm not say ing Gordon is like that but the 'family mentality' is always the same .................... Don't do it yourway, do it my way, regardless of whether it makes good business sense. That's the problem.




I really don't know, mate.
From someone on the outside looking in, it seems the Saints side of things rolled over.
More and more strength was given to the lllawarra component with Gordon coming on board and the privatisation captialised on it. If he is the major shareholder, one can only assume he has the say, especially if he has 'others' leaning his way.

To me, Johnston is strictly a faceplate for Gordon. l have nothing against Johnston with the exception he's a puppet for Gordon. Again, l foresee a gradual but major shift of moving everything to lllawarra.

The club will be sold off because its losing coin.
Jubilee Oval will be conviently passed in as a unsubstainable costs, relegating it to second and third tier games for the Saints juniors, local schools and alike ..............not up to nrl compliance for future games.

The writing has been on the wall for some time.
The privatisation allowed the club to action stage 1 of their grand plan.

Jubilee Oval granted a one year ground sponsership lease for almost zero dollars, based on the fact that there would be no games played there between mid April to August 2019.
The middle of the nrl season!

Talk about a real kick up the ass for local and longtime Dragons fans.

As l've said before, l was very happy for the merge of the two clubs to happen but over the past couple of years, its really starting to stink.

I don't trust them for the simple fact that commonsense is not prevailing.
It's a pretty fair assessment.
Tail wagging the dog and the moment in time when the St. George leaders decided to shack up with Illawarra, was the moment in time that our club was destroyed.
I would have preferred to battle it out like Souths did and emerge a stronger club under private ownership than what has transpired now.
Unfortunately, we did not have anyone like George Piggins to lead the way and stand up for the true St. George identity.
The promise of a super club has never materialized but instead, the Illawarra faction grabbed their chance for control with both hands.
Shame on the St. George decision makers who accepted the merger in the first place and shame on them for not standing firm in the board room.
Fancy merging the greatest club in Rugby League.
Just a cop out.
Have you ever wondered why after Wests/Balmain and us, there have never been any more mergers??
Simply because both have failed miserably.
What is far worse, and what Possm keeps on about, is the lack of accountability and the lack of democracy in the way the club is run.
The way the merger was set up was an abomination with no chance for the members to influence the direction or management of the club.
Deliberate and calculating in every way with very little consideration for the fans or the St. George's glorious tradition.
At a time when the club was in debt and there was an opportunity for an outside buyer to take over, the Board in charge manipulated the process with the blessing of the NRL, to ensure that WIN got a bargain and control in one fell swoop.
If it was an objective sale process whereby the best offer prevailed, we would have new owners today with probably a more focused agenda on performance and results.
As for Illawarra being our nursery and so on, it tends to overshadow and forget the contribution of the local juniors from the St. George District.
All those juniors would have flowed to St. George whether the merger had occurred or not.
The dagger in the heart has been the way the coaching and recruitment function has been literally tampered with for the majority of the JV's existence.
With some notable exceptions (David Waite was a standout for me and obviously Bennett) the position of head coach has been treated like a children's game with retired players all lining up to "have a go".
The cherry on top is McGregor and his coal fields CV who somehow emerged from being drop kicked by Bennett, to end up as our golden boy "career coach" and who has shown zero improvement during his 5 year tenure.
The team results are always portrayed as positive signs of good things to come but those good things never eventuate.
This year we didn't have the luxury of a big head start and the style of footy we are playing is one dimensional and not worth the price of admission.
Alas the long suffering fans!
McGregor and the Board are not finished with us yet.
More bad results - big scores racked up against us and a bottom 3 capitulation only to be told that St.George fans are "too demanding" and we are not being fair to McGregor.
It's the season we had to have with Widdop injured and JDB mucking up our ruck defence and injuries of course.
That explains away 2019 and justifies the premature extension of McGregor.
Honestly guys, it is an insult to our intelligence what is going on.
Sorry for the massive rant but regardless what the Illawarra die hards say, the merger has been an abject failure and St. George would have been far better off standing alone.
Rant over.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,973
It's a pretty fair assessment.
Tail wagging the dog and the moment in time when the St. George leaders decided to shack up with Illawarra, was the moment in time that our club was destroyed.
I would have preferred to battle it out like Souths did and emerge a stronger club under private ownership than what has transpired now.
Unfortunately, we did not have anyone like George Piggins to lead the way and stand up for the true St. George identity.
The promise of a super club has never materialized but instead, the Illawarra faction grabbed their chance for control with both hands.
Shame on the St. George decision makers who accepted the merger in the first place and shame on them for not standing firm in the board room.
Fancy merging the greatest club in Rugby League.
Just a cop out.
Have you ever wondered why after Wests/Balmain and us, there have never been any more mergers??
Simply because both have failed miserably.
What is far worse, and what Possm keeps on about, is the lack of accountability and the lack of democracy in the way the club is run.
The way the merger was set up was an abomination with no chance for the members to influence the direction or management of the club.
Deliberate and calculating in every way with very little consideration for the fans or the St. George's glorious tradition.
At a time when the club was in debt and there was an opportunity for an outside buyer to take over, the Board in charge manipulated the process with the blessing of the NRL, to ensure that WIN got a bargain and control in one fell swoop.
If it was an objective sale process whereby the best offer prevailed, we would have new owners today with probably a more focused agenda on performance and results.
As for Illawarra being our nursery and so on, it tends to overshadow and forget the contribution of the local juniors from the St. George District.
All those juniors would have flowed to St. George whether the merger had occurred or not.
The dagger in the heart has been the way the coaching and recruitment function has been literally tampered with for the majority of the JV's existence.
With some notable exceptions (David Waite was a standout for me and obviously Bennett) the position of head coach has been treated like a children's game with retired players all lining up to "have a go".
The cherry on top is McGregor and his coal fields CV who somehow emerged from being drop kicked by Bennett, to end up as our golden boy "career coach" and who has shown zero improvement during his 5 year tenure.
The team results are always portrayed as positive signs of good things to come but those good things never eventuate.
This year we didn't have the luxury of a big head start and the style of footy we are playing is one dimensional and not worth the price of admission.
Alas the long suffering fans!
McGregor and the Board are not finished with us yet.
More bad results - big scores racked up against us and a bottom 3 capitulation only to be told that St.George fans are "too demanding" and we are not being fair to McGregor.
It's the season we had to have with Widdop injured and JDB mucking up our ruck defence and injuries of course.
That explains away 2019 and justifies the premature extension of McGregor.
Honestly guys, it is an insult to our intelligence what is going on.
Sorry for the massive rant but regardless what the Illawarra die hards say, the merger has been an abject failure and St. George would have been far better off standing alone.
Rant over.
giphy.gif
 
Messages
3,950
Sure. I think the management is poor on both sides.

But I think you’ve misunderstood me. What I’m saying is that what was promised from the Illawarra side of the JV is being delivered. Where is the professional administration that St George was supposed to bring to the table?

I understand what you are saying SD82.

It was expected that Illawarra would provide the juniors and Saints would provide the money/administration.

This was the theory. Let’s look at it in practice.

Of the current 17 players in the FG squad:

Dufty St George
Leilua St George
Host St George
Robson North Coast
Lomax Temora
Lawrie Illawarra
Sims Illawarra (failed to blood him)
Sims Illawarra (failed to blood him)

Have I missed anyone?

Irrespective of where the juniors are coming from the Illawarra side is managing the pathways process with the assistance of Millward and McGenius.

The results are available for all to see.

Hence it really doesn’t matter where the juniors come from as they have very little chance of ever playing meaningful first grade minutes.

So you see Illawarra hasn’t really provided anything at all unfortunately.

We have the smell of Newtown about us.

Let’s hope something changes soon because the NRL/Newscorp puppets are waiting for the opportunity to slot us.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,855
I understand what you are saying SD82.

It was expected that Illawarra would provide the juniors and Saints would provide the money/administration.

This was the theory. Let’s look at it in practice.

Of the current 17 players in the FG squad:

Dufty St George
Leilua St George
Host St George
Robson North Coast
Lomax Temora
Lawrie Illawarra
Sims Illawarra (failed to blood him)
Sims Illawarra (failed to blood him)

Have I missed anyone?

Irrespective of where the juniors are coming from the Illawarra side is managing the pathways process with the assistance of Millward and McGenius.

The results are available for all to see.

Hence it really doesn’t matter where the juniors come from as they have very little chance of ever playing meaningful first grade minutes.

So you see Illawarra hasn’t really provided anything at all unfortunately.

We have the smell of Newtown about us.

Let’s hope something changes soon because the NRL/Newscorp puppets are waiting for the opportunity to slot us.
I’d say that the juniors continue to flow. The Illawarra league remains strong.

What we are lacking is the good administration that ensures that the talent is retained, and we are also lacking the high performance expertise to put the final polish on the juniors that is necessary to ensure that their talent translates to NRL quality. This comes back to administration. People can create whatever narrative they want around Illawarra influence, but the fact is that McGregor and Price were both appointed and retained by a majority St George board. (To their credit, Bennett was appointed too).

Your list is actually a damning indictment that lends support to my point. It’s absurd that instead of having a roster littered with home grown talent that is cheaper to employ and retain, we are almost exclusively recruiting externally for NRL talent.

Look at our last premiership.
1. Boyd (external)
2. Morris (Illawarra)
3. Cooper (Illawarra)
4. Gasnier (St George)
5. Nightingale (St George)
6. Soward (external)
7. Hornby (Illawarra)
8. Weyman (external)
9. Young (Illawarra)
10. Costigan (external)
11. Creagh (Illawarra)
12. Scott (Illawarra)
13. Smith (external)
14. Fein (external)
15. Merrin (Illawarra)
16. Prior (Illawarra)
17 Saffy (external)

Bennett gave us the blueprint. But our administration is too poor to implement it. The junior talent didn’t suddenly cease to exist, but the JV has ceased taking advantage of it.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,855
We have the smell of Newtown about us.
Just a quick response to this. I know you know the history of this quote. And I think it’s important to remember that this quote pre-dates the JV. I hate the quote but the stench that is referenced is entirely about St George. The greatest protective factor that St George currently has that is ensuring that it doesn’t go the way of the Jets is the relationship with the Illawarra. The NRL are ruthless, they have proven time and again that they will ignore tradition in the interest of profit, but there is no way they are going to leave NSW 3rd largest city without top grade representation.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,034
I’d say that the juniors continue to flow. The Illawarra league remains strong.

What we are lacking is the good administration that ensures that the talent is retained, and we are also lacking the high performance expertise to put the final polish on the juniors that is necessary to ensure that their talent translates to NRL quality. This comes back to administration. People can create whatever narrative they want around Illawarra influence, but the fact is that McGregor and Price were both appointed and retained by a majority St George board. (To their credit, Bennett was appointed too).

Your list is actually a damning indictment that lends support to my point. It’s absurd that instead of having a roster littered with home grown talent that is cheaper to employ and retain, we are almost exclusively recruiting externally for NRL talent.

Look at our last premiership.
1. Boyd (external)
2. Morris (Illawarra)
3. Cooper (Illawarra)
4. Gasnier (St George)
5. Nightingale (St George)
6. Soward (external)
7. Hornby (Illawarra)
8. Weyman (external)
9. Young (Illawarra)
10. Costigan (external)
11. Creagh (Illawarra)
12. Scott (Illawarra)
13. Smith (external)
14. Fein (external)
15. Merrin (Illawarra)
16. Prior (Illawarra)
17 Saffy (external)

Bennett gave us the blueprint. But our administration is too poor to implement it. The junior talent didn’t suddenly cease to exist, but the JV has ceased taking advantage of it.
I say we didn't need to merge to attract Illawarra juniors. The partnership should have always been St Gorge with the NRL licence granting Illwarra funds for junior development.

In the past and today, there is nothing to stop any club in the NRL from offering an Illawarra junior a contract. Time and time again we have seen the likes of Manly and others recruit Illawarra juniors from under our nose.

I honestly thought the partnership with WIN would be a good thing. I have now come to the conclusion it is a disaster and all that it served was to relieve Illawarra of debt to WIN and St George Leagues Club.

The alternative bidder at the time placed a higher and better bid and I'm sure would have insisted/facilitated a more professional management system along with better accountability.

Yes the NRL do want to reduce the number of Sydney based clubs and so by shifting the Dragons to Wollongong over time, they will go one step forward in achieving that goal. All of this at the expense of a proud and glorious St George.

We need a cleanout and if WIN won't cooperate then I say, find a partner who will.
 
Messages
2,866
Just a quick response to this. I know you know the history of this quote. And I think it’s important to remember that this quote pre-dates the JV. I hate the quote but the stench that is referenced is entirely about St George. The greatest protective factor that St George currently has that is ensuring that it doesn’t go the way of the Jets is the relationship with the Illawarra. The NRL are ruthless, they have proven time and again that they will ignore tradition in the interest of profit, but there is no way they are going to leave NSW 3rd largest city without top grade representation.
That is just not true
St. George cannot be compared to Newtown by any stretch..
Without Illawarra St. George would have survived without question.
Why would you merge the greatest rugby league club in history?
Private ownership was always an option and that possibility has been blatantly manipulated in favour of Illawarra from the outset.
Even the Win take over was influenced by the Board.
There were much better financial offers on the table which were unsuccessful for no reason other than it did not suit the Board's long term agenda.
After all is said and done - we are not a super club, we are an also ran.
Illawarra's contribution has been nepotism and a back door grab for power which they have achieved.
Listening to the new Chairman and his puppet CEO, it became obvious that any last glimmer of hope for a St. George revival had been extinguished.
Shame on the St. George faction for allowing this mess to fester.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,034
Just a quick response to this. I know you know the history of this quote. And I think it’s important to remember that this quote pre-dates the JV. I hate the quote but the stench that is referenced is entirely about St George. The greatest protective factor that St George currently has that is ensuring that it doesn’t go the way of the Jets is the relationship with the Illawarra. The NRL are ruthless, they have proven time and again that they will ignore tradition in the interest of profit, but there is no way they are going to leave NSW 3rd largest city without top grade representation.
Not so, the Newtown Jets were crowded by Souths, St George and Canterbury and has a very small junior competition based mainly on high school football. South Sydney Juniors and St George overpowered Newtown's ability to develop.

On the other hand St George were a powerhouse and with the correct management, would have continued to be so. If the merger with Illawarra did not happen, St George could easily have gone the same way as South Sydney and privatised. We were then and still are the most recognised name in Rugby League.
 
Messages
2,866
I say we didn't need to merge to attract Illawarra juniors. The partnership should have always been St Gorge with the NRL licence granting Illwarra funds for junior development.

In the past and today, there is nothing to stop any club in the NRL from offering an Illawarra junior a contract. Time and time again we have seen the likes of Manly and others recruit Illawarra juniors from under our nose.

I honestly thought the partnership with WIN would be a good thing. I have now come to the conclusion it is a disaster and all that it served was to relieve Illawarra of debt to WIN and St George Leagues Club.

The alternative bidder at the time placed a higher and better bid and I'm sure would have insisted/facilitated a more professional management system along with better accountability.

Yes the NRL do want to reduce the number of Sydney based clubs and so by shifting the Dragons to Wollongong over time, they will go one step forward in achieving that goal. All of this at the expense of a proud and glorious St George.

We need a cleanout and if WIN won't cooperate then I say, find a partner who will.
On point.
 

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
It's a pretty fair assessment.
Tail wagging the dog and the moment in time when the St. George leaders decided to shack up with Illawarra, was the moment in time that our club was destroyed.
I would have preferred to battle it out like Souths did and emerge a stronger club under private ownership than what has transpired now.
Unfortunately, we did not have anyone like George Piggins to lead the way and stand up for the true St. George identity.
The promise of a super club has never materialized but instead, the Illawarra faction grabbed their chance for control with both hands.
Shame on the St. George decision makers who accepted the merger in the first place and shame on them for not standing firm in the board room.
Fancy merging the greatest club in Rugby League.
Just a cop out.
Have you ever wondered why after Wests/Balmain and us, there have never been any more mergers??
Simply because both have failed miserably.
What is far worse, and what Possm keeps on about, is the lack of accountability and the lack of democracy in the way the club is run.
The way the merger was set up was an abomination with no chance for the members to influence the direction or management of the club.
Deliberate and calculating in every way with very little consideration for the fans or the St. George's glorious tradition.
At a time when the club was in debt and there was an opportunity for an outside buyer to take over, the Board in charge manipulated the process with the blessing of the NRL, to ensure that WIN got a bargain and control in one fell swoop.
If it was an objective sale process whereby the best offer prevailed, we would have new owners today with probably a more focused agenda on performance and results.
As for Illawarra being our nursery and so on, it tends to overshadow and forget the contribution of the local juniors from the St. George District.
All those juniors would have flowed to St. George whether the merger had occurred or not.
The dagger in the heart has been the way the coaching and recruitment function has been literally tampered with for the majority of the JV's existence.
With some notable exceptions (David Waite was a standout for me and obviously Bennett) the position of head coach has been treated like a children's game with retired players all lining up to "have a go".
The cherry on top is McGregor and his coal fields CV who somehow emerged from being drop kicked by Bennett, to end up as our golden boy "career coach" and who has shown zero improvement during his 5 year tenure.
The team results are always portrayed as positive signs of good things to come but those good things never eventuate.
This year we didn't have the luxury of a big head start and the style of footy we are playing is one dimensional and not worth the price of admission.
Alas the long suffering fans!
McGregor and the Board are not finished with us yet.
More bad results - big scores racked up against us and a bottom 3 capitulation only to be told that St.George fans are "too demanding" and we are not being fair to McGregor.
It's the season we had to have with Widdop injured and JDB mucking up our ruck defence and injuries of course.
That explains away 2019 and justifies the premature extension of McGregor.
Honestly guys, it is an insult to our intelligence what is going on.
Sorry for the massive rant but regardless what the Illawarra die hards say, the merger has been an abject failure and St. George would have been far better off standing alone.
Rant over.

Very, very good assessment, Dennis.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,855
I say we didn't need to merge to attract Illawarra juniors. The partnership should have always been St Gorge with the NRL licence granting Illwarra funds for junior development.
If the Dragons hadn’t formed the JV with Illawarra it would have been someone else. Most likely the Sharks.

The pipeline that you talk about, that fed every St George premiership in the club’s history, would have dried up.
 

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