Dragons vs Broncos to open 2018 NRL season

[ouryear]

Irrespective of what form Nighty ends his career in there is no chance of him being remembered as anything less than a club legend.
He kept his chin up when Bennett chose Sailor in front of him in 2009, stayed at the Dragons despite a bigger money offer from the Warriors, played well through our dark years and still gives his all.
A true champion of our club.

Yep, I love nighty, he is a bloody legend.

He is getting on, I wish he did retire in 2017, however, as you say LG, he has played well through all the Price and Mary era, puts in every week.

I really hope he goes well in 2018, I will be there flying his flag, that's for sure.

 

[ouryear]

No offense to Nighty...I love the bloke still.....but.....how many tries did we not score that could have been tries if we had a faster winger than him in his place.
T.

Probably about 4.
He saved a stack of tries as well.
And played fullback a lot.
15 /16 tries and being in the right place at the right time, that's why NZ pick our Flo.

Nene has speed, how many did he score?

But I don't blame nene, Its our coaching staff that are about under 12s coaching level.

Anyway, love Flo!

 

[Crush]

He's got DWZ and Rapana in front of him, what other Kiwi wingers are there? Don't know what the stocks are like TBH...

He's also valuable to have in the squad, as he would be for us next year but there's no way he should be guaranteed a start on the wing. I just have a laugh at those using tries scored to justify him staying in our Top 17 (as if they were all individual efforts) when it became obvious this year that he's being left behind as a winger and he have a desperate need for some speed on that edge.

Kahu? Fusitu'a? Those guys are handy kiwi wingers aren't they?
Nightingale is still in the mix. He's still a very good winger. But having said that if there is a quicker guy at the dragons that can finish like jason then by all means lets get him in the side and retire nighty.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

What other stats?
Compared to Nene (the winger that people want dropped instead) Flo has run less per game, less average metres and less tackle breaks. Tackle count is even but Flo has missed more.

Flo has more tries and line breaks, which (as has been mentioned) can be attributed to Widdop and Lafai's combined 34 line break assists and 29 try assists, compared with 17 and 14 respectively on the right edge (in short, Lafai set up more tries and line breaks than McCrone, Aitken and Dugan put together).

And this is compared with the guy most want dropped because he's seemingly operating at 50%. Put him on the left and we'd see a huge difference. So what stats tell what?

Of course, the real reason Flo should hang them up is not within stats. It was heartbreaking to see him put into clear space 40m out against the Dogs, where 90% of other wingers in the comp would score, and watch him run in lead boots and get rounded up by Chase f**king Stanley within 10m of catching the ball. And it sure as hell wasnt the first time. All the brains and instinct in the world can't compensate for what he currently lacks in the legs. We need a winger who can score from more than 10m out.

I've seen too many of our heroes from 2010 struggle in their final year, and it will be a shame to see this from Flo. No objections to keeping him around to help the youngsters, but when you take the emotion out of it he's not in our Top 2 wingers at the moment. And while he's not our biggest problem, that doesn't mean it's not a position that can be improved.

There are 2 different issues in my view.
If in fact Nightingale is assessed to be such a liability and should be retired/replaced then the coaching staff should have the balls to make that call and either buy a speedier more potent winger OR blood and persevere with a talented youngster,
As you know, this has not happened and is in line with the coach's safety first philosophy.
So Nightingale goes out every week and does the best he can for the team.
Surely you can't doubt his commitment, effort and heart can you?
The second issue is his actual performance.
Has identical ARM as McDonald even though I am not comparing the two.
I think only Vaughan has racked up more.
So he is doing more than his fair share of donkey work out of our own third.
Isn't that one of the roles wingers undertake these days?
Most line breaks in the club by a fair way which you attribute to Widdop and Lafai and give very little credit to Nightingale for.
You should also consider his tackle breaks (71) - surely Widdop and Lafai can't be responsible for those as well.
His error rate and missed tackles which are pretty low compared to the rest of the back line.
So from where I sit, Nightingale contributes positively to our team and is still a world class player that obviously is coming to the end of his career.
Your Canterbury Chase Stanley example is so unfair it's not funny.
Happy to analyse every single opportunity he had in 2017 and also the tries he scored using his finishing skills to score tries that others would not've.
There is no emotion - by any objective measure, he is one of our best players...consistently.
So you see there are two sides to the Nightingale debate.
By all means trade him in for a flashier model but where is the alternative?
Why hasn't Millward moved on a speed merchant replacement?
Why hasn't McGregor blooded any of the youngsters.
God knows he had plenty of opportunity to do it last year.
So until such time as something genuinely better comes along, I am very happy to have Nightingale on one of our wings.
I suppose I can never forget Steve Waugh in his last test.
"Never ever write off a champion"

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Geeze, something must have happened to make a young player dislike a club that much that he even refused to play for us.

If there was nothing, and he just wanted to high road it back to QLD, what a dirty deed, sook and dummy spit!

Must be something personal that has never been divulged.....surely (?)

Tallis was totally out of line and a big sook.
His behaviour with us was disgraceful and in fact became an unfortunate precursor to so many players reneging and not seeing out their contracts.
Listening to his views and commentary today, the IQ level is low grade and self indulgent.
I have no time for this meat head at all.

 

[ouryear]

Tallis was totally out of line and a big sook.
His behaviour with us was disgraceful and in fact became an unfortunate precursor to so many players reneging and not seeing out their contracts.
Listening to his views and commentary today, the IQ level is low grade and self indulgent.
I have no time for this meat head at all.

Thanks Dennis,
so he was just hanging to go back north?

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Thanks Dennis,
so he was just hanging to go back north?

Whatever the reason, he did not honour his contract with the club and would not abide by the arbitrator.- in the case the court.
In fact he signed with Super League while still contracted to St. George.
I can't find any redeeming justification for his actions which were in fact a blatant breach of contract.

 

[BennyV]

There are 2 different issues in my view.
If in fact Nightingale is assessed to be such a liability and should be retired/replaced then the coaching staff should have the balls to make that call and either buy a speedier more potent winger OR blood and persevere with a talented youngster,
As you know, this has not happened and is in line with the coach's safety first philosophy.
So Nightingale goes out every week and does the best he can for the team.
Surely you can't doubt his commitment, effort and heart can you?
The second issue is his actual performance.
Has identical ARM as McDonald even though I am not comparing the two.
I think only Vaughan has racked up more.
So he is doing more than his fair share of donkey work out of our own third.
Isn't that one of the roles wingers undertake these days?
Most line breaks in the club by a fair way which you attribute to Widdop and Lafai and give very little credit to Nightingale for.
You should also consider his tackle breaks (71) - surely Widdop and Lafai can't be responsible for those as well.
His error rate and missed tackles which are pretty low compared to the rest of the back line.
So from where I sit, Nightingale contributes positively to our team and is still a world class player that obviously is coming to the end of his career.
Your Canterbury Chase Stanley example is so unfair it's not funny.
Happy to analyse every single opportunity he had in 2017 and also the tries he scored using his finishing skills to score tries that others would not've.
There is no emotion - by any objective measure, he is one of our best players...consistently.
So you see there are two sides to the Nightingale debate.
By all means trade him in for a flashier model but where is the alternative?
Why hasn't Millward moved on a speed merchant replacement?
Why hasn't McGregor blooded any of the youngsters.
God knows he had plenty of opportunity to do it last year.
So until such time as something genuinely better comes along, I am very happy to have Nightingale on one of our wings.
I suppose I can never forget Steve Waugh in his last test.
"Never ever write off a champion"

Never doubted his commitment effort and heart, more his effectiveness within the team. There's too much in your post to refute/reject so we'll just agree to disagree.

Just astonished me that, in a team crying out for speed and promotion of juniors, people are content with keeping the slowest winger in the comp on his last legs outside some of the comps best opportunity-creators.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Never doubted his commitment effort and heart, more his effectiveness within the team. There's too much in your post to refute/reject so we'll just agree to disagree.

Just astonished me that, in a team crying out for speed and promotion of juniors, people are content with keeping the slowest winger in the comp on his last legs outside some of the comps best opportunity-creators.

It`s not the ~people~ that are content. me included.
Why doesn`t the club tap him on the shoulder?
Why aren`t they recruiting a replacement?
As I pointed out in my response to your original post - I would not mind a strike winger that would replace Nightingale but we don`t have that possibility right now.
I also think your last jibe about the slowest winger in the comp on his last legs etc. is just disrespectful to Nightingale and what he does contribute week in week out.
Would love to see his sprint times at training to see how slow (or fast) he really is.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Pretty sure Nighty was never a speedster and has proven to be a huge asset since day 1. NOthing has changed in what he does now to what he did. How many long range tries did he score in Bennett's era?

NIghty being the man he is and the love he has for the red V, I am pretty sure that when he feels he is a liability he will retire. He knows his body better than anyone and for him to want to continue he must feel capable of playing well enough. As soon as he doesn't feel up to it he will be the first to admit it and retire. Let him retire on his own terms as that is what this great man deserves.

 

[BennyV]

It`s not the ~people~ that are content. me included.
Why doesn`t the club tap him on the shoulder?
Why aren`t they recruiting a replacement?
As I pointed out in my response to your original post - I would not mind a strike winger that would replace Nightingale but we don`t have that possibility right now.
I also think your last jibe about the slowest winger in the comp on his last legs etc. is just disrespectful to Nightingale and what he does contribute week in week out.
Would love to see his sprint times at training to see how slow (or fast) he really is.

You can't talk about 'disrespect' after you are claiming that emotion needs to be taken out of it. I'm simply calling it as I see it - no, I dont have his sprint times but his lack of speed shows his lack of speed and has been evident throughout the season. And yes, speed has never been his biggest asset but we've never been so lacking for speed in our backline and at this point, he's the odd one out.

I dont understand your questions about the club - are you now saying that our coaching staff and team selectors know what they are doing? Because there's plenty of evidence to the contrary from the season...we dont know that we dont have the possibility of a strike winger right now. Did Melbourne think they had the possibility to replace Koribete?

Or are you saying that because we dont have a superstar ready to go, we should just be content?

 

[MrDragon007]

Tallis was totally out of line and a big sook.
His behaviour with us was disgraceful and in fact became an unfortunate precursor to so many players reneging and not seeing out their contracts.
Listening to his views and commentary today, the IQ level is low grade and self indulgent.
I have no time for this meat head at all.

Funny he gets mentioned, i bumped into Tallis at the establishment club about 3 years ago and had a chat.
One of the topics we spoke about was that incident.
He didnt say too much other then he wishes he went about it differently.
There wasnt any issues between him and the club that made him sign elsewhere, it was purely money, he said so himself.
He said he was offered really good coin and was pretty much forced to move asap, the issues between him and the club stemmed from the circus that followed.
Surprisingly he said he 100% understands the dragons stand point, he didnt see it at the time, but at the backend of his career he understood it.
For a guy thats said to be such a wanker, he is actually an ok guy, he was buying me drinks and having an honest chat (at least it seemed that way to me).
I dont mind the guy now.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Pretty sure Nighty was never a speedster and has proven to be a huge asset since day 1. NOthing has changed in what he does now to what he did. How many long range tries did he score in Bennett's era?

NIghty being the man he is and the love he has for the red V, I am pretty sure that when he feels he is a liability he will retire. He knows his body better than anyone and for him to want to continue he must feel capable of playing well enough. As soon as he doesn't feel up to it he will be the first to admit it and retire. Let him retire on his own terms as that is what this great man deserves.

There is a lot of talk about long range tries and I get that Nightingale does score many (any) of those.
BUT long range tries make up such a small percentage of overall wingers tries it is a mis perception.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

You can't talk about 'disrespect' after you are claiming that emotion needs to be taken out of it. I'm simply calling it as I see it - no, I dont have his sprint times but his lack of speed shows his lack of speed and has been evident throughout the season. And yes, speed has never been his biggest asset but we've never been so lacking for speed in our backline and at this point, he's the odd one out.

I dont understand your questions about the club - are you now saying that our coaching staff and team selectors know what they are doing? Because there's plenty of evidence to the contrary from the season...we dont know that we dont have the possibility of a strike winger right now. Did Melbourne think they had the possibility to replace Koribete?

Or are you saying that because we dont have a superstar ready to go, we should just be content?

What I am saying is simple.
Nightingale is still a top class winger and finisher.
Content? I'd love to have Korobiete instead but the fact is we don't.
So given Nightingale's actual performance (no emotion just facts) you are focusing and picking on his inclusion in the team unfairly.
We have another wing spot and centre spot that are glaring problems that should be up graded before Nightingale.
Plenty of opportunity to inject some real speed into the backline with some astute recruitment but the focus seems to be to recruit more forwards.

 

[red rocket]

What I am saying is simple.
Nightingale is still a top class winger and finisher.
Content? I'd love to have Korobiete instead but the fact is we don't.
So given Nightingale's actual performance (no emotion just facts) you are focusing and picking on his inclusion in the team unfairly.
We have another wing spot and centre spot that are glaring problems that should be up graded before Nightingale.
Plenty of opportunity to inject some real speed into the backline with some astute recruitment but the focus seems to be to recruit more forwards.

We got a few problems but nighty ain't one of them

 

[BennyV]

What I am saying is simple.
Nightingale is still a top class winger and finisher.
Content? I'd love to have Korobiete instead but the fact is we don't.
So given Nightingale's actual performance (no emotion just facts) you are focusing and picking on his inclusion in the team unfairly.
We have another wing spot and centre spot that are glaring problems that should be up graded before Nightingale.
Plenty of opportunity to inject some real speed into the backline with some astute recruitment but the focus seems to be to recruit more forwards.

As I said before, agree to disagree. In a team crying out for speed and injection of youth, he is occupying a spot in which he isnt the best option.

 

[Slippery Morris]

NIghty may not score long range but there a quite a few tries he has scored from close range that I bet not many others would have. That is what you get from Nighty. And some of his offloads which have led to tries have been pretty special. When he ends his career, if they do a highlights reel it will go for a while. So many highlights from him whether it be in defence or attack.

 

[Dragons22]

Why would anyone read that disgraceful paper.
Cannot see Hunt in a RedV jumper in the picture.
Don Henley from the Eagles wrote and sang the song "Dirty Laundry" regarding Mr Ruburt Murdock, states it all.
Right wing Dick Head!
CC

Come on mate, don’t bring Poltitcal aspects of newspapers in this. It’s not a joke.

 

[ALSGI]

As I said before, agree to disagree. In a team crying out for speed and injection of youth, he is occupying a spot in which he isnt the best option.

Agree BennyV.
Nighty fell over the line for most tries this year, often barely a hand on him and all from inside 10m. He was shown up many times with simple speed and unlike Nene’s defensive issues speed can’t be fixed in the off season.
Interestingly one of the games he played at FB was when Nene and KFL combined to score one of our best tries of the year, the kind we haven’t seen for years. Nighty wouldn’t have scored that try.
Watching him bag 3 tries twice this year was great and I was happy for him.
We have several better options just wish supercoach had the balls to use them.

 

[Carlton]

Nighty has been one of my favourite players, has always shown commitment and was always willing to do what was asked of him. A real champion. However, I wish he would retire as he is starting to be shown up in defence as he doesn't have the pace to compete anymore. He was never the fastest winger but that just means any loss of pace is even more of an issue.

Having wingers with blistering speed is not just about long distance tries, its also about the defence have to stay a bit wider and cant compress as much. The defence also can over read things because they are worried about the winger being in the clear. The problem is Nighty no longer causes these issues for opposition defences, they know they can cover him.